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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by TheHighExhaulted, Sep 14, 2014.
Joe might have given up on this game but nobody does a bed check as well as he does.
I would love to know what Dan Marino thinks of this.
I think part of Dan is going to want to defend Joe Philbin, buying Philbin's intellectual sophistry.
But I wonder if Dan will sit back and ask himself what he would think as a quarterback if his coach handed down those orders. That's the part of Dan Marino that I want to hear from...the one who knows just how anti-football this move really was.
Dan Marino is the only respected football man on Steve Ross' small council. This is exactly where the value of this move could start to be seen. Ross, not a football man, could easily have found himself buying wholly into Philbin's intellectual bullsh-t excuse if he didn't have an experienced and respected football man in his ear to warn him that he's hearing bullsh-t.
Don't have to imagine. He would have ignored the coach, gone out there and slung the ball then banged a cheerleader in the endzone.
There were plays to be made that were missed...as usual!! It's become common place. It's disingenuous and agenda driven to blame everything on the coach when there's a much bigger elephant in the room.
to me it's only important if that part of Dan has a serious come to Jesus meeting with Mr Tannehill. I think HIS response is more telling and quite honestly the only reason I could support Philbin on that move. cuz if his QB is willing sit back and go ..yup, we suck.. then that is really where the problem is. if I was Dan I would make that meeting happen sooner rather than later.
I think the elephant in the room is the one Mike Wallace railed about after the game: lack of intensity and passion from the team. I think that starts at the top, and it certainly isn't helped when the coach decides to quit with 2:20 to play in the half. Tannehill was bad, but again, who on the team was good today? I honestly do not believe today's game was a case of 1 player dragging down 52 players.
Yeah, right. Last week, they go into halftime down and come out on fire, comeback and abuse and win the game....against the Patsies!! He received absolutely no credit for that which is some proof that this is agenda driven. It's BS! The QB is the most important position on the field and sets the tone and emotion, etc.......on the field. I never claimed the rest of the team was good today, but I'm certainly not about to put this all on Philbin. It's total BS!
I credited the coaches for great second half adjustments last week. Maybe I wasn't swinging from the rafters shouting "JOE PHILBIN DID AN AWESOME JOB TODAY!" but I definitely felt like that game was a credit to our coaching staff. I still do.
But I am worried that we keep having these games where the whole team comes out totally flat and listless and can't snap out of their funk. I'm worried that the coaches have shown time and again to be rather stubborn about who they play and how they play them. I am worried that with 2:20 to play and 3 timeouts, we decided to quit for the half.
Coming into the season, my biggest concern with Ryan Tannehill was that I felt like he made too many bad reads, forcing footballs into bad spots and creating turnovers. Through two games, I am not seeing him making terrible reads, unless you count the garbage time desperation throw with 30 seconds to play down by 19 points earlier today. That was a bad read. I feel like he's actually making improvements in his decision-making with the football.
But now what I'm seeing is throws that are inaccurate, that are behind his receivers, that are maybe coming out of his hands late. I am waiting to see if that is because he is still adjusting to brand new offensive concepts, or if he is simply incapable of making accurate throws. I think it is the former, so that is why I am not 'throwing in the towel' on the QB yet. I think it is a problem, and one we must deal with, but I do not see it as the elephant in the room just yet.
The elephant in the room to me is still that our head coach just doesn't have an answer for Buffalo. I actually appreciate where you're coming from, because the QB's play was not good enough today and we shouldn't pretend that it was. But I look around and I see that the play of those other people and units I named also wasn't good enough, and I ask, what is the common thread here? Is #17 responsible for awful special teams play?
Exactly, but I think it's the latter. Please, don't throw in the flag yet. Keep waving that s--t brotha',
This is exactly how I feel. To a Tee. Today was really frustrating to watch.
Well hopefully Marino will realize that the orders were handed down to a QB very much unlike himself.
Who is the guy who whipped wakes *** all day seantrel henderson like wtf!!!!
This isn't the first time Philbin has done this. Recall last season, I believe it was the Steelers game, and having gotten just ahead we were over approaching their end zone and Philbin had them run the ball three times, in the same exact way. Defensive play right in the red-zone and it almost cost Miami the game. Either he doesn't trust his team or he naturally tends to get defensive and avoid risk, or both.
All I can say is, it bothered me then, it bothered me Sunday, and sadly, if we get into a high pressure situation again, I expect to see this show up again.
You obviously are very selective in the comments you read on this forum. Last week a lot of people on this forum praised Philbin and the coaching staff for the adjustments they made at halftime of the Patriots game.
The reality is that while Philbin certainly wasn't on the field playing so badly yesterday, he also has yet to prove he is the type of head coach who can get this team beyond mediocre. He is an average to below average head coach and this team doesn't appear much different under his leadership than it was under Sparano's.
He has 14 games left to prove he deserves to be an NFL head coach. It is get this team to the playoffs or look for a new job. If this team once again fails to get to the playoffs in Philbin's third year as the HC, he won't deserve a 4th year, it's as simple as that.
The Bears couldn't do squat in the first half of their game, either. Didn't stop them from trying before half time. And wouldn't you know it, they scored a TD and went on to win the game.
Philbin threw in the towel and wanted to "regroup"...well not so much regroup...more like tuck his tail between his legs
Wake beat him several times on the first few drives - but he was game planned out. The ball was out every time just as Wake was getting to the point of contact. He could have had a straight shot and might not have beaten the ball being out on a few of those plays. This begs the question - why can Buffalo come up with those plays and we couldnt?
Some of the questionable decisions made on offensive play calls, such as the one addressed in this thread made me wonder if Mike Sherman was back calling the plays again. Embarassing loss on all sides of the ball today.
Manuel had 26 drop backs, compared to RT's 53. We had a few chances to bring him down, you'd expect 1-2 sacks on 26 drops and we came close, but Manuel moves better is bigger harder to bring down.
I didn't like the choice (well, to be honest, I hated it: if you don't trust your QB in that situation, maybe you should sub him), but it could have worked... at the beginning of the second half, we moved the ball and started getting points, but again, our execution killed us: RT's bad passes and we settled for a field goal and we gave up a td return on kick off....then when we scored a TD (what a catch! props to Wallace), the D gave up a long drive...
This is not to defend Philbin (as I said, I hated his decision and I didn't like many of the news/facts I hear about him), but just to remember that just average execution could have won the game, even giving up that 2 minutes drill....
on a side note, what hurts me most about yesterday:
- Tannehill's plays (I am a huge fan, but the time is running out)
- the way we conceded big plays or score after we finally started doing something on offense. not the first time we saw it this kind of disconnection, when a unit left down the other ones at the worst moment.
I apologize for my bad English
Should have been fired right away after that move. Talk about losing respect.
I looked him up a 7th round pick wake should have man handled him not just beat him a few times imo
There was nothing good about the choice, IMO...regardless of whatever offensive explosion MAY have happened in the second half.
That's the thing that people have to realize about Joe Philbin as a head coach. He's not good at his job.
Football is a team effort and there are many working parts. You can win games because Kacy Rodgers is an excellent defensive line coach and has his guys performing lights out. You can win games because Cameron Wake is a Hall of Fame caliber defensive end and singlehandedly obliterates the other team's quarterback. You can win games because Bill Lazor genuinely brings over 21st century schemes that are fundamentally sound and find ways of challenging opposing offenses. You can win games because the combination of Jeff Ireland and Dennis Hickey has just supplied THAT much talent. You can also lose games for all of those reasons.
But throughout it all you must evaluate what it is your head coach is bringing to the table because he was just as bad of a head coach during the New England win as he was during the Buffalo loss. As I recall he also had some questionable decisions heading into the half against New England. What does he do to keep the team motivated and keep their engines running hot? Are they in especially good condition? Does he supplement the knowledge base on one side of the ball to where you can always be reasonably assured that side will perform well year to year no matter what coaches come and go beneath him? Does he have a relationship with the quarterback and a knack for getting the best out of him?
Nobody's ever been able to tell me what Joe Philbin actually brings to the table, aside from a running theory that he's somehow "better" and "more likeable" this year than he's been in previous years...which is a laughable reason to keep on a head coach, not in small part because it basically acknowledges that he was terrible before and we speculate he's not so terrible now. There are discrete instances and things you can point out that imply shortcomings on his part. Buffalo is just another one for that file.
No one can tell you what Philbin brings to the table because that's a stupid ****ing question. We are FANS. How the hell is anyone supposed to know what any coach brings to the table?
Philbin brings a hell of a lot more than any alternative. He is the best coach we've had since Shula in his first couple of decades here. I could not be happier with Philbin, his system, and Ross's choice of him.
I didn't really like it but I understood it. They were backed way up to the end zone. They were just trying to run the clock out without giving up field position. Ran a play and got to the 2 minute warning. Then they got a 1st down at he 20. It's not like they were mid field. The way the offense was playing at that point in the game I can understand going into the locker room and making adjustments since we were getting the ball out of the half. It was conservative. But at that point it was a very close game and you don't want to give the ball back to them on the 40 or 50.
Than ANY alternative?
I can't tell if you are the worlds greatest troll or if you actually believe this. Brilliant stuff sir.
They weren't backed up to their end zone. They were at their own 12 yard line. That's not backed up into your end zone to where you feel you are at risk of a safety. That's just saying "I have no confidence in my offense to gain the 50 yards necessary to go for a long field goal, even if we have three timeouts AND a two-minute warning at our disposal."
It was a coward's move. Pure and simple.
Even beyond it being a coward's move, it was still a bad coaching decision all the way around.
We had not been able to run the ball a lick prior to that drive. If we ran it the same way we had previously, Buffalo could've sued their timeouts and gotten the ball in great field position. I believe they had 2 left plus the warning.
The best coaching move was to try and get in position for a field goal. We chose the worst coaching move. Which is a pattern over about the last 20 years
The Dolphins passing game had a -6.73 expected points in the first half. They literally cost the team a touchdown. They were awful. Joe Philbin is relatively smart for understanding this.
The Dolphins passing game had a -6.73 expected points in the first half. They literally cost the team a touchdown. They were awful. Joe Philbin is a bad head coach for overseeing such a bad passing game.
And if Miami had passed the ball, they would have moved backwards, Buffalo would've used their timeouts and gotten the ball in even better field position???
If we are talking ideal play-calling, then Miami should have replaced every pass with a QB kneel. The score would have been closer at halftime. That is not an exaggeration either.
We have one of the most exciting winning systems in the NFL with Philbin. I watched a lot of games over the last two weekends. Teams are boring as fack, they offer nothing, all around the league.
Buffalo is boring as fack, conservative, they offer nothing new. Buff did one thing right yesterday, they stuck to conservative play, and won because Lazor failed at his job, ST failed. We also a ton injuries.
We are, together with Eagles, Titans, Seahawks, Jets, at the cutting edge of NFL playbook. That is tremendous and cannot be overstated.
Also, we have players like Hartline starting in a WCO. We have a QB who is up and down, going from bad to average. There are issue that need to be worked on. Personnel needs to be improved. But Philbin is not one of the issues. He is untouchable. This system can win. I don't remember last time I could say that with confidence about a system in Miami, it's been 3 decades probably.
Bravo sir, bravo.
The Jets at the cutting edge of an NFL playbook? Really?
Come one man, you were going so well.
It's not my fault you don't watch or understand the game.
Better to tank this year and have a shot at a QB anyway...
Edited for accuracy.
Football is a game of matchups... 11 vs 11... we match up vs the Patriots pretty well... we do not match up well vs the Bills. Although I thought we made a little progress in the 3rd quarter. But then the "SPECIAL" teams continued their nightmarish performance.
One sack away from being at or inside your own endzone... Tannehill had 3 sacks up until that point IIRC. It was the right decision to run the ball and keep the clock moving inside of two minutes. You're down 9-0 at that point... if something bad happens (which was to be expected frankly given the offense's performance up until this stage of the game) you could be down 16-0 at half time. And the game is pretty much out of reach at that point. Instead you go in down 9 points... make adjustments at half time and what do you know, you're within a touchdown TWICE in that third quarter...
IMO, Philbin isn't a coward... he's made some big time brass ball moves in the past. Does he get conservative at times? sure... every coach does at one point or another.
"The sky is falling the sky is failing.".....Chicken Little
You're a very strange man, Dez.