First, I think it is pretty obvious that Joe Philbin's and Mike Sherman's offense is a lot more complicated than being able to count to four. You are talking about an offense that can take 1 passing concept, apply it to 10 different formations with 10 different personnel groupings. For a college kid coming in, digesting this playbook is like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hydrant. Ryan Tannehill and Jonathan Martin, of the rookies this past year, had an advantage because they played in the West Coast Offense in college. Lamar Miller and Michael Egnew didn't, and they both got limited snaps. Rishard Matthews didn't start seeing consistent snaps till he was forced into action due to injury.
There is not a human being on the planet in any sport, pro or college, who has open field running ability - the combo of quick twitch feet (maybe the quickest feet I've ever seen) combined with break away sprinting ability - that Tavon Austin does. It's like watching Gale Sayers. If he had been born and raised in Argentina or Brazil - they'd probably be debating who the better player is, Messi or Austin. The question is whether his body will hold up - and he is a small target. But, in the right offense, he could be incredible. No way he gets out of round 1. Very much doubt he gets by Minnesota after the Harvin trade. The Rams also might be in the running after losing Amendola. If he somehow dropped to the Patriots - do you think Tom Brady would not be drooling? I know there are better pure WR's in this draft (size and route running) but this kid does bring some unique features - put him in the backfield and try to cover him with a LB? Very tough. Again though - will he handle a hit from a Patrick Willis or Bowman when they inevitably get to him?
You know what side of the Patterson vs Austin debate I'm on but I have to say, this is pretty much rock solid logic to me, and I cant argue with taking Austin over Patterson as a result.
I'm just curious as I'm not sure I want to scan through all of the individual posts. Did anyone in the thread (probably Todd) go through and isolate individual time stamped plays on YouTube where Tavon Austin was running routes and catching the ball? I've got about four games' worth of that stuff in my personal archives (2 from 2011, 2 from 2012) but I'm looking for more. I'm not interested in pissing matches. I just would like the data.
Also I'm kind of curious...why is it that Cordarrelle Patterson can't play the slot? I'm actually pretty sure he'd be quite good there.
This is why I want Patterson more then Austin. Patterson could play outside as well as slot where I don't see Austin giving that versatility at the wideout position.
The slot is about quick feet and run after catch ability. If there's more than one or two receivers in this draft with quicker feet than Patterson, I don't know them. And if there's more than one receiver in this draft with better run after catch ability, I'm not aware.
Patterson is not as nibble in tight spaces, Austin is better in the slot. But for slants and boundary, Patterson is better. Not excited about the draft at all after the Gibson FA WR splurge.
CK - in your opinion, how do Patterson and Austin compare with each other with regards to being slot players? My biggest thing is - if Patterson can play slot, you draft him #12. Period. Give him time to adjust to being that #1 guy, and in 2-3 years, maybe we let Wallace/Hartline go and shove our pretty new all around stud Patterson in that spot to replace him. Isn't that what the Packers do? Bring in WR guys that are of value even though it's not a need, just to save themselves from having to trade/fa sign/draft in the top 10 a stud WR?
I think Patterson could be great there as well. Not taking away from him in that regard at all. Just IMHO I think Austin is even better suited there, and he's already spent 4 years grooming for the position, which Patterson hasn't, so I think the length to impact is significantly shorter with Austin whereas you'd have to basically teach Patterson the role/position from scratch. Austin is already in that mindset, understands the role & much of the coverage, knows most of the routes and runs them well, and likely has already done many of the things at WVU from the slot that we'd be wanting from the position, so piece-of-mind should already exist in that regard..... therefore I'd choose Austin for it b/c he's ready to step in the minute we sign him IMO.
I only have that one post that's time-stamped, Chris. Use whatever you need from it. http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?74812-Tavon-Austin-A-Metrics-Breakdown/page2 Since then his Baylor game has been released: [video=youtube;bG20wQoaies]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG20wQoaies[/video]
Okay Phin, you're making me a believer. There were two moves after the catch (3:56ish and 7:10ish) where he just jukes two other guys while looking forward. That's insane vision.
I absolutely LOVE that shake/jerk route on the first play. His ability makes it look so simple.... well, I mean it's not a complex concept as you know, but he makes it look so easy with his insane acceleration and stop/start ability... and I think he's a lot smarter than people realize b/c his natural ability probably overshadows his football brains/instincts. What's the OC in you say? Would you be drooling about all the different ways his ability would allow you to draw up plays to get him open from the slot with Wallace wide next to him, or are there genuine reservations you'd have? Nice vision call on the 2nd play BTW; I missed it the first time around. It's even more impressive when you still-shot it to see just how many defenders were around him yet Tavon still picks up 30+ yards from the first pic where he's kicking up the turf pellets. I guess that's what these youngens call gettin' punked. lol
That's exactly it. Holy moly. I was sitting there thinking "okay Im waiting to be wowed" but then I realized I was only paying attention AFTER the catch. He's really great at getting open, and bringing the ball in. It's impressive. I think he's got tremendous burst, incredible vision and speed like no other but he's not a real JOYSTICK kinda guy (Dante Hall, etc) so it's hard to see at first. I'm so used to seeing plays where they simply bounce around away from everyone that when I don't see it, I automatically go "meh he's okay" without actually appreciating and respecting the positives I DO see. Things that translates VERY well to the NFL.
The play at about 8:40 was the one I mentioned before, where the threat of Austin on the fly sweep, allowed Bailey to get behind the corner and the safety not to get over in time and it was completed for a TD. That was an example of how Bailey benefited stats wise by the presence of Austin. There is probably examples the other way too, just not so noticeable to me.
Well said, Ryan. To me it's like Tavon's a magician where everything he does with the ball in his hands is so mesmerizing we don't notice what's going on before it, for instance- the subtle things he does to set up defenders and how he understands where he needs to be in coverage. He seems like a very smart & savy player..... but when you watch all the other stuff he does (the easy sweep-screens, screens, and game at running back vs Oklahoma) it's probably easy to think there's not much to him as a receiver, when it couldn't be further from the truth. It's like DJ said- the guy has energy for days so why not use him all game long if he doesn't wear down, eh?
added to that- I totally know what you mean. For the first few months of watching him I thought he was running the same simple s*** over and over again b/c of how open he gets and b/c many of the receptions are under 10 yards..... but when you actually stop to see what's going on before the catch you're like "there's a lot more going on here than just one or two routes run over and over". I can't recall ever seeing a player seeming like he's doing so little when it actually couldn't be further from the truth. IMO that comes back to his ability paired with his football smarts & preparation making it look so easy, but I could be wrong.
I agree, pappy. I like Bailey a bunch (IMO he's the 2nd or 3rd best slot WR with Swope), but I don't see Tavon benefitting the same way from Bailey's presence that Bailey did Tavon; otherwise we'd be talking about Bailey as the 1st rounder and Tavon the 3rd IMO. The fact remains Bailey played with one of the most electric players of the past few years. Sh**, I watched Tavon single-handedly blow the game open against my Clemson boys.... and then continue blowing it open. If opposing WVU defensive coordinators were asked whom they worried about the most between Tavon & Stedman, I'm guessing 100% would respond Tavon.
I'm inclined to agree with you, he's even more explosive than Percy Harvin and that's saying a lot. Austin can thrive in the slot imo and also play out wide- if Desean Jackson can, Austin can as well imo. He's much bigger/more muscular than I originally thought- you need strength to beat press coverage more than size imo. Once he's off the line he's gone, and as to injury- the guy is a running back as well, he's plenty tough. This is not Ted Gin II. Also, talent and production trump combine numbers, bottom line. Elvis Dumervil is 5'11 3/8 and he's averaging 9 sacks a year if I did my math right, 63 in his career so far. He gets it done, and I think that Austin will as well. I'm still scratching my head about this Gibson FA signing, but put Austin and Wallace on the field at the same time, with Miller in the backfield and Keller/Clay/maybe Egnew at TE and you have drastically altered this offense away from slow and plodding to quick and very fast.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...50045_1_dolphins-percy-harvin-florida-coaches http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...eland-mock-drafts-dolphins-czar-bill-parcells As I have said before, Jeff has an affinity for this style of player.
You know, if you like a guy in the first round, whether he's at 18, 15, 12 or 8 ... you want him. Having watched several videos and having seen him some last year ... I am now so obsessed with Tavon Austin I will be distraught if we don't get him. So, I will probably be distraught. I actually think someone may get him above us (or trade in front of us). Posted this in the mains but worth reposting in a risk of a bit of redundancy and Tavon Austin, one more time ... this from Evan Silva (whose opinions I have followed for a long time and I think is an exceptional evaluator of talent):
I think his talent to translate at the next level is the easiest projection in this draft.. Folks who are keeping him out of the top 20 for size reasons are off in this case, he's elite in three categories..vision..speed..quicks...noone will care you took him at twelve in three years..he's arguably the most talented player in the draft.. The hype is finally catching up to the player, and the player deserves it.. The draft is about finding great football players, doesn't matter where you get them, if you hit on more picks than you fail your going to be a good football team. This player brings two philosophy's of drafting into one...safe pick and BPA all rolled into one.
Think back to 2009. If Percy Harvin didn't have some question marks about his character, he probably would have gone around the 12th pick. It is quite possible that teams, including the Dolphins, will see Tavon Austin as "Percy Harvin without the baggage" so to speak.
Agreed. I am a bit worried teams will leap frog us and nail him at 9-10 (or the Jets might). Especially if there is a rumor we want him. Ireland, if he does want Austin (and there is no guarantee he will), needs to throw up smoke screens (CB & DE).
I think teams will likely think the same way media and fans are thinking right now. The general consensus among the media and fans is that Miami will either focus on offensive line or cornerback with this pick. Even if Miami slips Tavon into Miami a week before the draft, the push from the media will be that they are targeting another position. Look at 2009. I don't think anyone was convinced that Percy Harvin was their guy prior to that draft, and most had Miami taking the potential pass rusher in Clay Matthews with their pick.
