http://secondroundstats.com/2013/02/14/breakdown-austin/ Well, my interpretation of the metrics fits what I feel will be the case for Tavon when he gets to the NFL. I feel like he's going to be a niche player that may not adjust very well to being a perimeter oriented wide receiver. He's a match up guy, as the numbers show that 55% of the time, he was covered by linebackers in college. To me, this is a guy who has tremendous ability in space, and you will have to devise schemes to get him in mismatches in space. Because of this, I feel that there are certain teams that he would be a great fit for, and certain teams that probably do not need to be awed by his space ability. It is very clear to me that even though they are considered to be jack of all trades types of players, Cordarrelle Patterson and Tavon Austin are completely different players. Patterson is going to have very little trouble transitioning to being a X or a Z in the NFL. I'm not convinced that Tavon Austin will be able to get open against the physical, athletic corners he will face in the NFL if he is put into a position where he has to play the X or the Z. If a team utilizes him as an H in the slot and moves him around to get the right match ups, he can be a solid play maker. Just a note, I would be curious to see what Randall Cobb's numbers and Percy Harvin's numbers looked like from their final seasons in college broken down this way.
Andew Hawkins caught 51 of 80 passes for 533 yards and 4 TDs in 14 games for Cincy, and IMO Hawkins is a poor man's Tavon Austin. Same size & frame as well at 5'7, 175-180.
I'm not high on Tvon given our need for a WR who can play outside, be productive in the redzone, and force safeties to stay out of the box. Now with this new info, it looks even more like Austin is an exceptional underneath player, with some upside on specially-schemed plays to get the ball in his hands. That's not a guy I need more than a Stedman Bailey, who can do it all at a high level. If we lined up Jennings, Stedman Bailey, Bess and Terrance Williams in a four-wide, you could hurt a defense at any level of the field. Adding Tavon is really just getting a more elusive, faster bess for more underneath stuff. No thanks.
I respectfully disagree on all accounts, Barry. Austin can stretch the field from the slot (and I've seen him do it on the perimeter) in ways Bess could only dream of, and he can get on top of a safety in a hurry so I'm not sure why he wouldn't help keep them honest. He's like a slot version of DeSean Jackson. I'm not sure why he wouldn't impact in the redzone when he's a premier playmaker with the ball in his hands. The new info shows that when adjusting for screen sweeps, Austin averages 13.3 ypc. That's quite good for a slot receiver and means he's not just an underneath guy. 3rd Downs: 23 catches, 340 yards, 15.0 ypc, 4 TDs. 4 TDs on 10 catches in the redzone. I don't see how scheming up extra ways to get the ball in a playmaker's hands is a bad thing. It doesn't mean he's only effective if schemed up. Like I mentioned previously, he can also be lined up at tailback for read-option stuff w/o us having to sub in and out personnel.
A few quick plays 0:12 mark (replay at 0:55) [video=youtube;f_qVPnr1Dp8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_qVPnr1Dp8[/video] 0:50 (as a freshman) 5:50 & 5:58 (these next 4 as a sophomore) 6:24 6:43 [video=youtube;Q_Iab2H4WD8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Iab2H4WD8[/video]
If we resign Hartline and get Jennings, I would love to draft Austin. That being said, if we don't get at least a solid #1 and #2 I would rather take Hopkins, Patterson, Williams. Same goes for Bailey. Of topic, but the more I watch, hear, and read about Ryan Swope I think he ends up having a solid Combine and being a 2nd round pick.
And if Miami does resign Brian Hartline and sign Greg Jennings, I think Ryan Swope will definitely be a target for them. He might be a target even if they only get one of the aforementioned done.
The problem with that is that NFL coaches rarely do that. Last year in Green Bay, Mike McCarthy used jack of all trades athlete Randall Cobb as primarily a return specialist and rarely used him in the passing offense. Now, they had a very good trio of complimentary receivers ahead of him, but he wasn't integrated into the game plan much at all because he was not a threat as an outside guy yet. Cobb is a guy they could have attempted to game plan into the offense by running a lot of the spread concept things that a lot of college coaches use with these jack of all trades, but they didn't. The same thing goes for Percy Harvin in Minnesota. Percy adapted to being an outside guy.
Right. The other thing is, if you have to scheme specifically to get the ball into that players hands in non-traditional ways, it's easier for a good defensive co-ordinator to completely take that player out of the game with a good defensive gameplan. That's not easy to do with a versatile receiver who can play outside, or inside, short routes, deep routes, over the middle, outside, climb the ladder for jump balls, make contested catches, take screens, etc. A well rounded receiver is harder to eliminate out of base plays.
Yep, consider that Reggie Bush had the highest number of receptions of any Rb in the NFL when he came to Miami. But here, he was pretty much a non factor in the passing game. Suspect it is a product of NFL coaches having a distinct lack of balls when it comes to either trying new things, or altering anything at all
That's a beef of mine. Coaches who waste players abilities because they are short sighted and incapable of doing something the aren't safely familiar with having done for forty years. Like a guy who's 'living on the edge' if he has his eggs over easy for once after having them sunny side up every day since 1979.
So basically if we can't get Calvin Johnson we should just forget about the position?.... and that we should just forget about slot receivers altogether? I also don't understand why you keep mentioning having to "scheme specifically to get the ball in his hands". Slot receivers don't have to be schemed up to be apart of the offense; however there's nothing wrong with figuring out ways to get them extra touches if they're playmakers. Honestly, how many times do you expect our top 3 receivers to touch the ball per game? roughly 4-5 times? So what's wrong with scheming up ways to increase that number when it involves a playmaker? It's football; you move the ball from point A to point B, so does it genuinely bother you that much if some of that movement comes from scheming plays to a guy with the ability to house it every time he touches the ball? What about running backs? Isn't every touch they get by scheme? Austin can actually run routes. Randall Cobb wasn't an elite route runner at Kentucky IMO but the Packers drafted him b/c they knew he's a playmaker, an X factor, and that they could scheme up ways to let him impact, and now look at him- he had more catches as their slot receiver (80) than either Nelson or Jennings had in 2011.... and b/c he works the slot and b/c they find easy ways to get the ball in his hands, his catch percentage is high (77%). Plus Cobb tacked on 8 TDs. Not to mention he had 132 rushing yards on 10 carries. That's efficiency IMO, and efficiency is important, especially to Philbin. Austin is a playmaker, too, so I don't know why there's an issue with him catching many of his passes underneath (like slot receivers typically do) when he can turn those short passes into game-breaking plays. After all, a 40 yard TD is a 40 yard TD; does it matter if it's 40 yards in the air or 10 yards in the air and 30 in YAC? While we're on the subject, I'm confused why you're anti Austin when there's a very real chance your favorite receiver, Bailey, could end up in the slot considering there aren't many 5'9, 4.5 forty perimeter receivers in the NFL. Here's an NFL.COM draft assessment of Randall Cobb just for comparison: .... and Defensive Coordinators have to spend time preparing for a dangerous slot receiver/X factor and then be worried about his presence all game long. How well did we do stopping the read option vs San Francisco even though we knew it was coming? Didn't we get beat for a 50 yard, back-breaking TD? Do you genuinely believe it's that easy to snap the fingers and eliminate Austin's presence? Do you not think that would open up opportunities for his teammates? Where you see "scheme" as a bad thing, I see it as an extra dimension to the offense. If we had Cobb do you think Philbin would bypass scheming up ways to get him an extra touch or two per game? I don't.
Randall Cobb is a much better receiver than he's given credit for. He showed receiver skills at UK. Much better prospect than Austin IMO.
I agree with this. Really, the only guy that Austin's role in his offense was similar to would be Percy Harvin at Florida, and I personally feel that Harvin was much stronger as a runner than Austin. I think Harvin's size also helped him with running outside receiver routes in the NFL and getting himself open against press and tight coverage. I question if Austin is going to be able to make the transition into being anything other than a slot/niche player. I think Stedman Bailey is a much better comparison with Randall Cobb from a size standpoint, route running standpoint, and overall receiving ability standpoint.
Tavon Austin has showed just as much receiver skills IMO. I don't think he was an excellent route runner per se b/c he didn't run a very complex route tree from what I recall, and I remember McShay talking pre-draft about how Cobb is still developing as a route runner. I recall him running a lot of easy, short stuff to get the ball in his hands similar to what we saw from Austin. Here's Cobb's highlight reel. I figure his best receptions will show up here, yet his routes seem less diverse and no more precise than what Austin runs IMO. [video=youtube;i09R28AWgFU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09R28AWgFU[/video] Cobb vs South Carolina (nothing complicated here. lot of short stuff underneath, in the flats, and screens. Similar to Austin) [video=youtube;US1pSS7ElHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US1pSS7ElHc[/video]
I urge you guys to watch Cobb vs Pitt in his bowl game below and compare it to Tavon Austin's junior game vs LSU and tell me who runs a greater variety of routes, is crisper in his routes, gains more separation, and does so verse better competition. -most of Cobb's catches are easy stuff designed to get the ball in his hands so he can do his thing, similarly to how Tavon is used. A lot of mismatches vs linebackers. Cobb runs an out route from the slot like Austin frequently does, although Tavon excels running these IMO as his speed lets him get there in a hurry, typically beating the safety and before the corner has enough time to get back. -Cobb lets a pass get in on him over the middle that he drops just as Austin does vs LSU. Then Cobb lets a second one go through his hands that's almost picked. [video=youtube;07oI619yg3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07oI619yg3E[/video] [video=youtube;bd8Y-PLYi7M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd8Y-PLYi7M[/video] At 1:13, look at the pivot route Tavon runs vs Tryon Mathieu that eats the Honey Badger up, one of the best slot cover corners in the country in 2011. There's no one in football that runs this better than Tavon. That's a staple route of a great slot receiver and is what makes Wes Welker so effective. I believe off this one stem Tavon could've destroyed Mathieu in at least 3 different ways: the pivot/whip route, jerk route (where he hesitates or stutters and continues his route), and a shallow drive or drag route where Mathieu has little chance to stay step for step with Austin in man coverage across the field. These 3 routes he runs extremely well and are a nightmare for anyone to cover, linebacker or not. Option routes? forget about it. That's like asking a 5'10 corner to win a 50-50 ball vs Randy Moss in his prime. Shade him to either side and good luck making up ground on the instant separation he creates. He runs a difficult to defend speed out and deep out and has the hands and body control to make the tough catch. Austin can stop on a dime on hitches and curls, making those tough to defend b/c his deep speed has to be respected. Find me a slot receiver who can stretch the field from the slot better than Tavon b/c very few if any can. He can run a post, corner, wheel/rail, and streak and make the tough catch over his head or shoulder, and he's so explosive out his breaks that he makes coverage guys look silly. Screens? How many players pose a greater YAC threat than Tavon? Shake routes? Cmon. Not many guys have the ability to do it better. With the slightest defensive hesitation he can create a few yards of separation and settle down in soft spots over the middle. Sorry, I just don't get the talk Tavon is a limited route runner or poor route runner when he in fact can do a TON more from the slot than Bess or any typical slot receiver could dream of. Look, I could understand the argument against him if we're talking about a Ted Ginn type as a slot receiver who is fast as hell but isn't the least bit twitchy, can't stop and start on a dime, isn't explosive, etc b/c that type of receiver would obviously have limitations as a route runner, but we're not talking about Ginn; we're talking about a receiver who's the complete opposite who has the underlying ability & natural talent to excel at just about every route a slot receiver runs. He's gonna run a sub 4.4 forty, is lightening quick over 10 yards, and should test off the charts in the cone & shuttle. You put his combine numbers down on paper and they should scream, "Impossible to cover from the slot". The guy is not a bad route runner, not in the least, and he doesn't just run a fundamental route tree either.
Austin's problem is not his route running from the slot. It's that he is limited to being a slot guy only whose size will likely prevent him from playing outside.
Why, is DeSean Jackson limited to the slot? BTW, Randall Cobb led the Packers in targets. Greg Jennings (who has spent most of his time in the slot the past couple years according to CK) led Green Bay in targets in 2011. I'd say there's nothing wrong with having a stud slot receiver in Philbin's offense. They're targeted enough to warrant a high draft pick IMO.
Well, we know Ireland didn't make the trip to WV for the Qb, I forget which game it was that he intended, and who stood out between Bailey and Austin?
And when you find me a receiver that plays 100% of the time in the slot in Philbin's offense, then I might agree with you on Tavon Austin, who is a receiver that will have to play 100% of the time, or close to it, in the slot.
Tavon Austin's route diversity (Timestamped) 1. start with the aforementioned pivot route vs Tyron Mathieu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=73s 2. speed out vs LSU (behind Morris Claiborne and in front of Eric Reid): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=31s 3. quick slant vs Mathieu. Instantly separates from Mathieu. One of rare times Tavon lets a pass get into his pads or else it's an easy 14 yard completion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=47s 4. quick hitch w/ 12 yards of YAC vs LSU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=79s 5. quick out vs Kenny Vaccaro & Mykkele Thompson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGRF9Hb7IUg#t=316s vs Vaccaro in 1 on 1. Eats Kenny up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGRF9Hb7IUg#t=340s vs Vaccaro on 4th & 6. nice contested catch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGRF9Hb7IUg#t=356s 6. flanker quick slant vs LSU (easily beats 3rd rounder Brandon Taylor and splits the LB): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=85s 7. deep out vs Eric Reid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=179s 8. deep seam vs LSU (makes Mathieu look like a Division 3 nickel corner): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bd8Y-PLYi7M#t=203s 9. Go route/fake screen vs Oklahoma corner Gabe Lynn who isn't lacking in the speed department and should get drafted next year. Lynn isn't fooled by the fake but Tavon gets on top of him regardless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rtMnEHUlljw#t=94s 10. 10 yard pivot or option route on 3rd & 8. Virtually indefensible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dEHB--65kQ#t=190s 11. intermediate seam route on 3rd & 15 for 34 yard TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dEHB--65kQ#t=494s 12. Corner route for 25 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UNllr8AV1S8#t=174s 13. Shake route on 4th & 4 vs Texas for 40 yard TD!! Cant stop it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGRF9Hb7IUg#t=145s Shake route busted coverage 37 yard TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cTRw3xvRGPA#t=239s Austin will MAKE.A.LIVING off these in the NFL!! 14. post-corner for 52 yard TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kpahNSznW7A#t=133s 15. Stutter-Go route for 25 yard TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f_qVPnr1Dp8#t=55s 16. Go route 39 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X2SCuEVykoE#t=46s 17. Fake slant and Go for 25 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uICLaJ93rpU#t=80s 18. Post route for 45 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uICLaJ93rpU#t=102s 19. Deep post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KVKzyqg_NIM#t=345s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0AAWC5t0trY#t=391s 20. Flare out backfield. awesome yards after contact for 1st down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vjtFdbiGyfM#t=287s 21. Out route out of backfield on 3rd & 10 for 14 yards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TxzPryPMB74#t=33s 22. WR Screen for 21 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jZL3rE19n58#t=290s 3rd & 8 Screen vs FSU for 18 yards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sn9aH5Z7Gss#t=58s 23. Shallow crossing route on 3rd & 6. runs over defender for 1st down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qyDsYZ0OtxU#t=34s ​ 24. Easy in route for 45 yard TD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lb_gTOCuwek#t=62s working zone coverage 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lb_gTOCuwek#t=72s 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dEHB--65kQ#t=241s 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dEHB--65kQ#t=478s 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sn9aH5Z7Gss#t=201s 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-dEHB--65kQ#t=444s 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bG20wQoaies#t=414s ​Making the tough catch or in traffic/contested 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UNllr8AV1S8#t=232s 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0AAWC5t0trY#t=401s 3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iGRF9Hb7IUg#t=87s 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=X2SCuEVykoE#t=73s 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xyqaiYE9BhE#t=108s 6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Vkag11ynHws#t=377s 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=esTvxIakWKU#t=242s 8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vjtFdbiGyfM#t=205s 9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qyDsYZ0OtxU#t=3s 10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bG20wQoaies#t=353s 11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bG20wQoaies#t=376s 12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bG20wQoaies#t=440s 13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bG20wQoaies#t=511s Working open for his QB when play breaks down http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f_qVPnr1Dp8#t=363s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pExGXE2-R4E#t=17s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Oo-NJWDwlLM#t=74s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASaAURP7F-s#t=90s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jZL3rE19n58#t=153s Redzone http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ASaAURP7F-s#t=249s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=esTvxIakWKU#t=170s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3a7DK5HeTRM#t=46s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cTRw3xvRGPA#t=82s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cTRw3xvRGPA#t=176s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jZL3rE19n58#t=176s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GxkQdAQQ-mo#t=61s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0AAWC5t0trY#t=274s
why would you say that? Again, is DeSean Jackson limited to 100% slot duties? You don't think a 4.3 guy who's lightening quick and oozes twitchiness can't play on the outside for at least 10 percent of his snaps? What is it about his ability says to you, "no can do on the outside"?
If there's one other person on this board I can count on to be as mentally unhinged as I am to where he'll also do hours of work isolating video plays just to make a simple argument in a single post in a single thread...it's ****ing Todd. Kudos.
Compare the above clips of Austin to how Greg Jennings is used in this 2011 game vs Denver where he's predominantly in the slot. No press coverage I might add. [video=youtube;bw00cPvgodc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bw00cPvgodc[/video]
All I can say right now is repeat Mayock's comment: The NFL is all about matchups and Austin is a matchup nightmare.
what he said ^ with two 2nds and two 3rds we can afford to take a matchup nightmare like Austin in the first, even w/o a trade back. There are obviously some other prospects who would deserve strong consideration at the pick, and what we do or don't do in FA could obviously have an impact on whether or not Austin is even feasible.
YES! YES! YES! I'd take him at 12, and come back and get a TE and Swope in the 2nd. At 42, we probably cannot get Eifert, but could perhaps get Ertz, Escobar or Kelce. Then take Swope with the late 2nd. If we sign Jennings as a UFA, even better. That would give us Jennings, Austin, Swope, and Bess as our first 4 WRs.
I did not even pay attention to who the other team was. Just liked the flailing would be tacklers in his wake.
Ok, this from a Texas Tech site seriously gave me a chuckle (the caption below the picture): D.J. Johnson defender "Texas Tech safety D.J. Johnson gets ready to stop West Virginia wide receiver Tavon Austin from catching a pass from West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith on Saturday at Jones AT&T Stadium." Yup, Johnson definitely looks like he's about to stop Austin here. LOL
Will you look at the thickness of that *** and hamstring and the way it's tied together, its really fu$$in beautiful man, that is why you don't have to worry about his size when it comes to injuries, that is why he's explosive and runs a 4.25 If somehow we could drop down, and move back and get Austin and Eifert I will go nuts.
