Your Religion or Spirituality

You're welcome my friend, just passing on the message of Good News

 

Here is another of my favorites, you may enjoy.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwKy8cvTCxE&feature=user[/media]

The Power of Prayer is powerful.

 

One last one.

He will carrry me - by Mark Schulz

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xKK7FyrhK4[/media]

 

I couldn't resist, this is Mark Schulz in concert, with his classic

Remember Me

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyStPuiKLQ&NR=1[/media]

 

Hey, I got one as well. Silly agnostic me who's got a soft spot for Irish music. Now, if they played this in church (and served some Guinness), I might just consider going again ...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fzRZuGEr04[/media]

 

I think this is a fair question. My answer is that if I am wrong, I lived a moral life, was a great husband, father, leader, citizen......etc. I have no problem with either scenario. However if I am right.....then can you live with the consequences of that. You say you believe that you won't know till you actually die. I believe that one can know well before that time.

 

I'd like to answer this one...the problem with your question is that it assumes far too much.
First of all, there are many, many religions and most are mutually exclusive. YOU are taking the chance that your particular version of Christianity will get you into Heaven, when it could just as easily be Islam or Zoroastrianiam that has the real ticket to a better afterlife. If you die and wake up in Valhalla with Odin demanding why you didn't fall in battle, you've gambled and lost just as surely as I have or an atheist has.
Second, you also assume that if there is an afterlife and there is a creator, that this Being requires you to be of a certain religion in order to avoid eternal punishment. I think that this is a conceit of Bronze-Age Middle Eastern nomads, personally, with no basis in any sort of rational thought.
And last, many Christians make the mistake that the possibility of a Creator of this universe existing equals the possibility that there is an afterlife and that this Creator is interested in our existence whatsoever. There could very easily be a Creator who is not at all interested in what we do on Earth or what any other sentient species does with their lives. This Creator could view the universe as an experiment, or an ant farm or as a laboratory accident for all we know.

 

Thanks. That sums it up for me also.

 

I always like this one
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDSKjKgqKk[/media]

 

Thanks brother, love Irish Pub music. Nothing better than to sit around and listen to on a Saturday night with your mates & girlfriends.

 

You're welcome sister.

 

Very haunting and beautiful. Thanks Dupree

 

...or there may be no afterlife at all and when we die that is it. my question does not assume anything. it is a response to the question of knowing absolutely or believing absolutely. i my mind, Christianity/Christians have an expectation that an absolute answer must be had before passing from this existence. i think the passing is as much an experience of living and therefore becomes part of the final answer.

the only thing i know absolutely is how i choose to live and i take that with me regardless of what comes after this reality ends.

 

it is what your comfort level is and that is good for you. and again the answer is yes. it's my life and my risk, if you will. i'm not trying to say that my belief is the right answer for everyone, just me. i was just curious to ask because of the absoluteness of your answer.

 

Yes it is your life. You have the freedom to choose whatever you want. But there can only be one right choice, not several.


So if I am right, you are ok with the consequences of that? If I am right, that menas there is a heaven....and eternal suffering in hell, depending on what choice one makes. The assumption here is that you reject the Christian God, which means you would be destined for hell in this scenario. You are still ok with that?

 

I see what you are trying to say, however it is just my opinion that "not burning in hell" is the worst reason to ever "follow" god.

To me it would be like me putting a gun to your head and telling you to tell me that I am the "man" and you telling me that just because you do not want me to shoot you. Not that you really think I am the "man".

Service in fear is not really service.

 

People believe in God for many different reasons. I don't think fear is among the most popular reasons, at least among the people I have spoken with. People, such as myself, believe in God because he is true.

Hell is just a consequence of a wrong decision.

 

my answer once again is yes. i can not see myself narrowing my view just to be accepted.

it is my experience with most outwardly religious persons that their faith is based in fear. accepting what they are told that no matter what they do they are sinners and can only be accepted if they accept Jesus as their personal lord and savior. sounds to much like servitude to me, not to mention miss placed allegiance. i would rather risk my "eternal soul and well being" on what i believe than exist in a reality that does not hold much difference in the outcome for me. your idea of heaven does not sound very appealing to me and as you have stated, you could very well be right and i may spend eternity in hell.

by the way, i do believe that there is God. i believe that God is. and that is the only description needed.

 

i believe that there are as many "right choices" as there are people that have ever existed. there are no two people that share exact thoughts, feelings, experiences, expectations.....

so your right choice best fits you and how you desire to exist after this reality. my right choice fits me and mine.

 

You're one of the ones who truly "gets it".

And are YOU ready for the consequences if I'M the one who's right?

Oh wait...I keep forgetting. You guys are the only ones with "consequences". My Goddess will accept you even if you don't believe in Her, as long as you live a good life.

She doesn't demand that you worship Her.

 

It is a pretty big consequence if you go by most of the beliefs I have been told.

I tend to look at it as if HELL was NEVER mentioned ever in the bible or in church and you would still follow the faith, then it is not fear based.

If you look at it as, "If I do <blank>" i am going to hell, it is fear based.

Heck even, "If you don't do that, you will go to hell" sounds fear based to me.

It is even in some of what people say, like, "I am a god fearing man". I still do not understand how that positive.

 

I think expecting people to act counter to their selfish interests without fear of punishment if they don't do it is unrealistic.

 

That sounds more like control than faith

 

What do you think organized religion was originally designed to do? Once it got past the stage of shamans and developed a priesthood, temples and a system of rules, likely in Babylon and Egypt 5,000 years ago or so, its main purpose was control.

 

This is the biggest flaw I see with the big monotheistic religions. To banish people to an eternity of suffering b/c they didn't "accept" you even though you don't interact with them at all (or in an extremely indirect way depending on how you look at things) is very petty and to me doesn't seem to be a quality that a perfect being would possess.

 

It's not positive at all. It's a shameful tactic IMO. "You're going to Hell, accept Jesus, death is your only alternative"

 

And remains so in present times.

 

I do not disagree with that.

It is just as an American, we have choices.

 

Don't get me wrong...I am not saying that's a bad thing, necessarily. Religion nowadays, except in fundamentalist Muslim countries, is mostly a voluntary form of self-control. And it's the only kind of self control some people have.

 

it's also the the kind of control that those that are aggressive try to place on others.

don't get me wrong. i don't begrudge anyone their beliefs as long as they do not begrudge me mine. it has been my experience with those that consider themselves Christians to be on a wide range. from ultra radicals to what most of us think when thinking "Christian". the strange thing i noticed in my experience is that those that are casual in their beliefs seem to be the more accomidating and willing in their giving. the more structured in their beliefs tend to be less giving and forgiving and more demanding and judgmental. in some cases i would even say militant.

 

Not really. No one in this country can legally force you to be one religion or another. They have the right to try to convince you, if you will listen to them. If you don't want to listen to them, you can very easily not.

 

legalities aside, tell me how you are supposed to receive a church elder telling you that no matter what you do, you will never be allowed into heaven because of your birth circumstances. tell me how an impressionable child is supposed to accept that when society is telling you you need to go to heaven when you die or you will spend eternity in the pits of hell.

tell me how you are supposed to respond when a pastor threatens to lock the doors of the church if you do not come down and confess your sins on your first visit to the church.

two different experiences from a life time of aggressive believers trying to convince me their way is the only way. so, yes, really.

 

Oh no?

Why don't you look up how for years our wonderful president fought to deny Wiccan soldiers who died in battle the right to have a pentacle placed on their tombstones in military cemeteries...and then when the pentacle was finally allowed, completely snubbed and humiliated the wife of a Wiccan soldier who fought for that right and won.

Or maybe you can look up the Senator who teamed with local priests AND the president to deny Wiccan soldiers the right to practice their faith on military bases, and who threatened to protest and disrupt whenever they attempted to practice?

If that's not forcing your beliefs on others, nothing is.

 

You receive it by leaving the church and not going back. is someone holding you there at gunpoint?

Nope, still not really. The fact you don't like someone's opinion doesn't mean they are forcing it on you.

 

So the fact that one administration didn't like wiccans in the military means that people in the US can be forced to practice a religion? I don't think that follows at all. You're trying to build a mansion out of a couple 2x4s.

 

And you dodge and weave better than D7 does.

Reverse the situation...let's see how accepting you'd be.

If you want, I'll post a list a mile long of Christians forcing their beliefs on others. Running businesses out of towns, vandalizing other religious symbols, getting people fired for differing beliefs....etc. etc.

A couple of 2x4's?

Brother, I have a boatload of bricks to throw at you if you'd like.

 

Whatever you say...I have no vested interest in defending any religion, being an unbeliever. I simply disagree with your characterization of religion. If it had no purpose, if it didn't work somehow, it wouldn't still be this popular and widespread after 6-10,000 years of human civilization and tens of thousands of years of homo sapiens sapien's existence on this planet.

 

i'm not sure how you keep trying to apply a legal conotation to this statement '66. it is a statement pure and simple. it is based on observations and experiences that i have had. you are absolutely correct in stating that no one can impose one view upon another legally. but that does not mean that people do not try. i am glad for you that you are always diligent and aware when people try to get you to do things their way and are absolutely resolute in your responses, truly.

people try to get other people to go their way all the time. and they are aggressive in doing so. you are correct in stateing that all you have to do is leave the church, in fact, that is exactly what we did. does not change the fact that the Pastor of that church actually tried to lock my family in. yes. really. he did.

when the church elder vehimently pointed out that my mothers children would never be able to enter heaven regardless of what her children did because of their birth circumstance, she very politely, but emphatically requested that that person leave at once. that church elder did try to impose his views on my mother and, subsequently upon us, for some unknown reason. yes. really. he did.

the statement was "it's also the the kind of control that those that are aggressive try to place on others." yes. yes they do. they try every day to impose their idea upon others. people either follow or do not. the fact remains; people try to impose every day.

 

Welcome to life Dolphin 1.