Wtf?
7 replies
Paganforum_veteranOPI don't understand when disagreements between factions results in this:
Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm Sunday
By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sun Apr 20, 3:49 PM ET
JERUSALEM - Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.
The fight came amid growing rivalry over religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and resurrected.
It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.
When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians and celebrate Easter next Sunday.
Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police. Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and chanting.
The Holy Sepulcher is shared by several Christian denominations according to a centuries-old arrangement known as the "status quo."
Each denomination jealously guards its share of the basilica, and fights over rights at the church have intensified in recent years, particularly between the Armenians and Greeks.
Father Pakrad, an Armenian priest, said the presence of the Greek priest during the Armenian observances violated the status quo. "Our priests entered the tomb. They kicked the Greek monk out of the Edicule," he said, referring to the tomb area.
Pakrad accused the Greek Orthodox Christians of trying to step on the Armenians' rights. "We are the weak ones, persecuted by them for many centuries."
The Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, told The Associated Press that the Armenians are pushing to change the rules, challenging what he said was the dominance of the Greek church in the Holy Land.
"This behavior is criminal and unacceptable by all means," he said. "They wanted to trespass on the status quo concerning the order that regulates the services between the various communities."
The Church of the Nativity in nearby Bethlehem — where Jesus is said to have been born — also falls under the status quo arrangement. Last year, pre-Christmas cleaning in that church turned ugly when robed Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests went at each other with brooms and stones.
".. hell you even have a fireman who rubs his balls on another mans head for three hours a week.. show some class, don't make fun of us poor Dolphins fans. :shifty:" ~ cnc66
"There is no sweeter nectar, than the misery riddled tears of Jets fans." ~ Finascious D
DonShula84moderatorLet 'em fight it out imo. Set up a little Thunder Dome action...two priests enter, one priest leaves. Winner gets to play in the church.
JCowScotforum_veteran...and then they wonder why there are so many atheists.:pity::pity:
*Maybe they should all just get together and dance it out...there is a precedence for this sort of thing:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qyQjiXSlU_w
Honor in Virtue. Truth in Sacrifice. Strength in All.
OhiophinphanmoderatorThere was a Doonesbury cartoon a year or so ago that applies here. There was a soldier in a Humvee with an Iraqi aide saying they needed to go in a capture a high value target at a safe house. The Iraqi says he must kill the guy to avenge a wrong done by his family to the aide's family. The US soldier says, "when?" The aide answers "1657!" and the final panel has the US officer saying, "What is wrong with you people!"
If you find a picture of the "front" doior of the Church of the Holy Sepluchre and look closely at a ledge above the door, you will see a ladder leaning on the ledge against an upper story window. That ladder has been there over two hundred years because the guy who put it there didn't have the right and no one will touch it afterwards for fear of an argument.
The relations in the shrines is a scandel. I visited there on a Sunday morning in 12/05 and witnessed the various groups praying at, not with each other. The grievances are old and continue to be pushed by their desperate situation there and in their home lands. Every time there are steps forward as by the Melchite ArchBishop of the Galilee, Elias Shacour, or Bishop Younan of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Jordan and the Holy Land, some one pulls out a broom and whacks someone else!
The only positive from all of this, and yes I am reaching here, is that when they fight it is with palm branches and brooms not kalisnakovs and suicide bombers. I pin my slim hopes there.
OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.
MiamianNew MemberWhat I also don't get is how they were only briefly detained. They freaking attacked the cops. Anyone who's ever touched a palm frond knows that they're not soft. They can easily lacerate or knock out an eye. They should be in jail awaiting trial.
It reminds me of something a friend of mine who's a border guard here told me a few weeks ago that there was a guy who was arrested and regulations require handcuffing with arms in front because handcuffing behind the back incurs too much hardship. While they were in the squad car on the way to jail, the prisoner lunged forward and tried to strangle the driver with the handcuffs. THEY LET HIM GO!!!!
And no, to those who will start with the accusatory assumptions, the prisoner was an Arab, not a Jew.
ירושלים, בירת עמי
gafinfansubscriberThis is the very reason I put no stock in organized religion. Going to different services and hearing if you aren't this or that you won't get to heaven, all the infighting , and for what. That is not God's way; not in my book.
This is the only thing I’ve learned: There’s only us. There’s no them. Despots and authoritarians need to make a “them” to have a straw man whom you are against. If you need to make an enemy of “them,” you’ve lost the spirit of us. - Ken Burns of PBS
Ohiophinphanmoderator"gafinfan wrote:
This is the very reason I put no stock in organized religion. Going to different services and hearing if you aren't this or that you won't get to heaven, all the infighting , and for what. That is not God's way; not in my book.
If religion is all about you then your assessment makes sense. If it is about service to God and others...............
For all the talk about how embaressing, stupid, hypocritical (fill in the blank) those groups were/are around the shrines also keep in mind that medical care in the West Bank for Palestinians is provided by only five hospitals, two Muslim and three Christian. Despite having fewer and fewer folk still living there, a Lutheran, a Catholic, and an Anglican hospital team with the two Islamic medical centers to provide high quality medical care to a people that are horribly underserved. That could not happen without people of faith here in the west providing offerings and support. That is a side of "organization" that is too often ignored.
OHIOPHINPHAN
Witness to the first ever practice of the Miami Dolphins, 1966.
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