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WR Stedman Bailey, West Virginia

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You gotta be fooking kidding me. Before I let that moose come anywhere near my friend John Henry, I'd expect a rather sizable monetary stipend to be sent my way from the combined resources of you and Dougie. Dougie can pick Eifert over Ertz all day every day and I'll allow that he is correct before I'd touch that iron jawed amazon with anything but a 10 foot pool.
     
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  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If you could get little Dougie to stand at attention from the sight of her naked in front of you, then you are a better man than I am.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He's a Miami native. Grew up a Dolphin fan. Can see Sun Life from his childhood home and high school.

    Link to his radio interview on 560.

    Doesn't care if plays slot or outside.

    Confirmed he met with Miami.

    Sounds like a great kid.
     
  4. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    ugh. Sounds too good to be true.
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The only player I've ever wanted on this team more was Tannehill.
     
  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Marques Wilson?
     
  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let's hope it's not a "draw". :shifty:

    I learned my lesson.
     
  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Jeff Ireland- "So Stedman, tell me, what type of teammate is Tavon Austin?" :shifty:
     
  9. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Mexico
    That alone should be enough reason to draft him. :yes:
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Watching his highlights again.....I do not understand why he isn't considered a first round prospect. This is a perfect example where combine numbers make people over think what happened on the field. He does everything a WR should and does it well. Hell watch him block on Tavon Austin highlights.

    He is the Russell Wilson of this draft. I'd take him at 12 and you could make a meme of me saying "not a single **** was given".
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    b/c when factoring in his smallish size he lacks NFL caliber speed to be the same type of difference making at the next level that he was in college IMO.... and b/c there's a chance he's relegated to the slot as a traditional receiver, and he's not an Xfactor type like Harvin or Austin.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Which is all bull****. Like I said, people over think combine numbers.
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    An undersized guy who doesn't possess elite measurables and isn't a lock to be a perimeter receiver in the NFL shouldn't and won't be drafted in the 1st round IMO.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I know he won't.

    My argument is that is stupid. This guy will be a great receiver.

    I don't think 2 tenths of a second is important.
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Tell that to corners trying to cover 4.3 receivers. :p

    I like Bailey and would love to add him but I also believe he has a chance to become just another guy.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again, I'm so tired of hearing 4.3 this and 4.3 that.

    You are talking about tenths of second. Think about that.

    Weight of equipment, fatigue, the temperature, the route, the jump off the line, the mental drive can all change speed by even more than a second, let alone a tenth.

    Bailey produces. He will eat CBs alive, even if they are 3 tenths of second faster in underwear. He did it in college, he'll do it in the pros.
     
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  17. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It certainly isn't as important as being a better WR is. He won't be drafted in the first, but IMO there's as good of a probability that he ends up the best WR in this class and not much of a chance that he won't be at least a decent one.
     
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  18. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How is Bailey undersized? And how can he not play on the outside?

    Those sound like like weaknesses of Austin, not Bailey. That's why Austin shouldn't be a first round pick, not Bailey.
     
  19. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Who doesn't? Fifty-five percent of first round draftees bust in the NFL. And there's no real difference between selecting a guy in the first or third round.
     
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  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    When you take a player in the 1st round don't you typically have less doubt about the guy becoming just another guy?

    Does that mean you'd openly swap every 1st round pick the next decade even up for 3rd rounders (since their salaries cost less)?

    Jake Long, Vontae Davis, Jared Odrick, Mike Pouncey, Ryan Tannehill.... Kendall Langford, Patrick Turner, John Jerry, Michael Egnew, Olivier Vernon. At least in our case it would appear there's a difference between 1st & 3rd rounders, no?
     
  21. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Not always, no. It's why some high-risk guys go before those who considered "safe".

    Are you serious with this question?
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sure why not. I thought it was a fair question after you said there's no real difference in selecting a guy in the 1st or 3rd round.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Alen, does this mean you don't have stronger convictions about some players than others and that you equally treat them all based on their specific bust factor according to their respective round?
     
  24. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Yeah, that's really quite hilarious. Not only does he have 2 inches and 20lbs on Austin, he's an overall better receiver. Which is far more important to me than the slash combination of WR/RB/PR.

    Fact is, if Ireland watched UWV, he noticed Bailey, even if he wasn't the intended target. Would be a phenomenal pickup in round 2/3 and Bess's eventual replacement.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah.

    2 inches taller and 2 tenths of a second faster and he's talked about like the Luck of WRs.

    Those measurement "deficiencies" are so damn small, there is no way they are the difference between great and JAG.
     
  26. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    There isn't.

    And in regards to convictions, no.
     
  27. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    I'd prefer Bailey to Austin. I don't see the ceiling for Bailey that I do for Austin but the floor is so much higher. Bailey just has such tremendous body control, and I see him as a YAC threat for short and intermediate passes. A guy who will just move the chains, or in the redzone, take a quick slant to the house with his elusiveness and straight up strength.

    His "Stedman Bailey vs" stuff on youtube was a real joy to watch. The whole time he stood out to me.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Mark Harrison would be a good one too.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Check the average height of an NFL perimeter receiver (since that's what you're regarding him as) and then tell me 5'9 5/8 isn't undersized.

    Did I say he can't play on the outside? No I did not. I said there's a chance he can be relegated to the slot b/c of his sub 5'10 size paired with his average speed. There's a reason Stedman said he doesn't care if he plays in the slot or outside, and that's likely because teams discussed the slot during interviews.

    He's only an inch and a quarter taller than Tavon Austin but significantly slower and with less game-breaking ability. By NFL standards he's a short receiver. Tavon is also short but he has elite speed, great versatility, and top notch playmaking ability working in his corner. That's why he should be the first rounder and will be drafted higher.

    For perspective, remember that guy Jarrett Dillard? Tore.it.up in college.
    5'10 191, 4.52 forty, a crazy 42.5 vertical. NCAA record 60 TD receptions (19 more than Bailey). 920 more receiving yards than Bailey.
    Biletnikoff finalist. 2x All American.
    Similar size and speed to Bailey, great hands, dominated defenders downfield and on jump balls just as Bailey did, if not better.
    Ended up going in the 5th round and was cut last year by Jax. Just saying, a smaller sized perimeter receiver w/o elite speed could pose an issue in today's NFL.

    [video=youtube;kzDRBxgKMBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzDRBxgKMBQ[/video]
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    He's 1 1/4 inches taller, not two.

    5'9 5/8 is short enough that it might as well be 5'8 3/8 (Tavon's height). And so what if Bailey has 19 pounds on Austin? That still makes him an undersized receiver. What's hilarious is acting like Bailey is 6'2 with a substantial size difference compared to Austin when in fact all you're really doing is splitting hairs.

    Their size difference is negligible. You know what's not negligible?...the difference between average speed and elite speed.... including a 1.45 ten yard time compared to 1.58..... and the difference in game-breaking ability against NFL caliber players.
     
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  31. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Small detail, but Bailey is the receiver who is 2 inches taller. Austin is 2 inches shorter than Bailey.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Bailey plays bigger than Austin. He goes and gets the ball when there's contact. I don't see Bailey at a disadvantage when he's covered, as happens more in the NFL. That's my biggest concern with Austin. He is a player who needs space. He thrives there and that's why people get enamored with his explosiveness. But in the NFL, there's less space. So there's value in a player who thrives when there's contact, like Bailey. That's why people love a player like Steve Smith and that's why so many people have made the comparison.
     
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  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Inch and a quarter. :wink2:
     
  34. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think Bailey will have any trouble on the outside. He's played on the outside in college. From what I've read, he doesn't have issues regarding route running or beating the jam.

    Your logic doesn't make sense to me, though. You're essentially telling me Bailey is undersized so he shouldn't be drafted in the first round. Yet, Austin should be even though he's smaller.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The same can be said for speed and the ability to create separation with it, no? In that regard I would think a 4.52 receiver will be at a disadvantage compared to a highly elusive 4.3 guy when there's less space to operate in, especially after the catch, splitting defenders, and so forth.
    Do you see Bailey breaking a lot of tackles in the NFL?
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I see Bailey playing like Mark Clayton did for us and to a lesser extent how Smith played for Carolina. Bailey can play either in the slot or on the perimeter. He's not limited. That is a strength that raises his floor. I see his range of potential as anywhere from Steve Smith (a #1) to Santana Moss. Austin could be a Desean Jackson but with better focus, but he could also be Trindon Holliday or Eric Metcalf.
     
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  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    The size isn't the issue; it's the measurables that go along with the size. Bailey dominated college players; however against NFL players who are faster, bigger, and just as athletic, I question the level of impact he'll have and wonder if he'll be not much more than a possession receiver (perhaps slightly better than Bess). Austin dominated in college as well, but the difference between Tavon and Stedman is in the NFL Tavon will still be one of the fastest & most elusive players in the game just as he was in college, which will continue to give players and coordinators fits.


    Don't forget, Davone Bess is virtually identical in size & frame at just under 5'10, 194 and has similar measurables. Bess was massively productive in college (3610 yards, 41 TD in 3 years) and was thought of pre-combine as an early to mid round prospect IIRC.

    Here's a few of Bess's highlights in case no one actually saw him at Hawaii.
    [video=youtube;29WC3PJnBhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29WC3PJnBhA[/video]

    [video=youtube;OfKA4wJsVV0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfKA4wJsVV0[/video]

    [video=youtube;BwzDoyXZAQc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwzDoyXZAQc[/video]

    [video=youtube;7AT3Pj0EUlg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AT3Pj0EUlg[/video]

    [video=youtube;LUaFDuxTCS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUaFDuxTCS0[/video]
     
  38. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just don't agree with that. Just because he's faster or more elusive does not mean it's OK for Austin to be as small as he is and be a first round pick but it is not OK for Bailey. Bailey is a more well rounded receiver as well as being a more powerful receiver. There are more aspects to a players game than just speed.
     
  39. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Bess was running mid 4.6s at even his pro day. There's some definite athletic superiority from Bess to Bailey. I think Bailey would fill Bess's role in this offense incredibly well. Welker-esque, even.

    It's all I can see when I look at Bailey. Shifty, great cuts, terrific catch in traffic, ability to slip out of tackles, or just run through you for 3 yards after contact. It's all there.

    And for me, he's there with our bottom 2nd round pick, and we haven't taken any other WRs after signing Wallace... I take him. I do. I'm staring at other talent on the field, talent that likely could go in places where it may be desperately needed (DE, OL, RB, CB, you name it) but I'm taking him. I either ship Bess off for a mid round pick if there are any suitors, or I just keep them all on the field together.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I personally feel Bailey is an upgrade over Bess and can do more things from the slot than Bess can but I'm wondering if the difference is enough to warrant a late 2nd/early 3rd.

    If we happen to end up with Wallace, Cook, and Hartline, IMO Austin would serve the best compliment from the slot, and I don't think Ireland will be interested in spending a day 1 or day 2 pick on a perimeter receiver after spending 100 million on them in FA. If Ireland's looking to do anything at receiver it'll most likely either be to upgrade the slot with an Xfactor type or with a mid to late round guy with upside.
     
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