With Aj Edds, Where does Channing Crowder stand????

yep they are looking to replace him because his instincts are awful, he is terrible in coverage and the guy can't be part of or create a big play to save his life. They want to upgrade that position and i think they see a guy in Edds who can at least replace part of that already. They expect to get that from this kid and the way crowder plays I don't expect it to be too very long before he is gone for good.

 

I approve this post.

 

Concur. Is there anything Channing Crowder does above average besides crack jokes in the locker room? If the defense was worse without him that's just an indictment of how bad the defense really was. Because it wasn't that good with him either. If you get an ILB that can sack the QB or intercept a pass even every great now and then you're getting more than you get from Crowder.

 

yea, if he would only have intercepted a pass that solidfied a win last season like most ILBs he would be much better.

 

I see where you went but one for his entire 5 year career is pathetic and when you look at that one it hit him in the chest. To put it in perspective in Dansby's first 5 years he already had 9 Ints.

 

I think what will happen this season is Edds will step in for Crowder on obvious passing-downs, as well as rotating in and out from time to time.

I've watched a lot of Edds... probably more than most of you have simply because I follow the Hawkeyes. And I can say while he has the potential to be a good starting linebacker in this league (he's extremely smart), you shouldn't expect him to step in right away and take away Crowder's starting job in his first year. It's just unrealistic...

 

Ah the KC game lol. I would agree w/ u there, except neither team was interested in playing football that day. I still remember the opening kickoff when NO ONE on either team hit the ground, including Cobbs the KR. No one wanted to hit b/c of the weather, and both defenses struggled. Funny game.

 

Huh? Am I reading this right? Cam Wake beats Nick Kazcur off the edge, has Brady wrapped up for a (basically) game ending sack. Brady throws the ball to no one in particular to avoid being dragged down, ball happens to go straight to Crowder, and you want to credit him for that. C'mon man. My daughter couldve made that play. Vontae's interception was a real INT where he you know, actually had to make a play. Soilia, Ayodele, & Starks on the 4th and 1 before halftime. Yeremiah running down Welker to save a TD. There were quite a few plays made by the defense that day, but Crowder's wasnt one of them. The tip he had in Tennesee that led to a Vontae INT was actually a much better play...

 

That is not true. Just because an interception is easy, does not make it not a big play. And no, your daughter probably couldn't have made that play. In fact she would be too busy running for her life as she is way to small to be out there. Also there have been many times when NFL players haven't made that play. Including the right in his hands play the Bengals safety dropped during Joe Montana's "The Drive" to win the superbowl.

Crowder is what he is. I do not see why people need to make things up to make him look worse than he is.

 

That was his first one and he was drafted in 05. It was a desperation pass thrown right into his chest by a QB who was being drug to the ground at the end of a game.

 

Defensive players drop passes right in their chest all of the time. They also drop them right in their hands. Including Sean Smith last year.

 

Nobody needs to make anything up. One interception in five seasons says it all for me. I'm sure the sack number is ridiculously low as well. I'd also bet the numbers for forced fumbles and fumbles recovered is also unimpressive. Crowder is what he is. An average linebacker that can start on some teams but that you make efforts to upgrade if you want to field a top defense.

 

I'm not saying they don't. But that was about the easiest interception opportunity you can get in the NFL. Yeah he made it. Good for him. It only took him five seasons.

 

I do not disagree about upgrading Crowder. I am not convinced that Miami has.

 

There isn't an easier INT to be made basically. He even looked surprised that he had it

I tend to remember the guy who is invisible game in/game out except for when you know he's letting QB's walk into the end zone to win games.

It's a minor miracle that guy has gotten 5 seasons.

 

How is that remotely the case? He is a solid starter for the Dolphins. He hasn't been great, however he has been solid.

So it is only Crowder's responsibility on the plays when the QB walk in the end zone to win games? I did not realize you had the defensive playbook for the assignments during those plays.

 

How do you figure. The only thing Crowder is average in is tackling and hitting the right gap (and even I'm not sure if he's avg in that). He's piss poor in blitzing, coverage and pretty much anything involving a big play. He can't engage an OL cause if he does he's instantly washed out. Health is an issue and we don't know how much longer that knee of his will hold up.

The only reason he was even re-signed was the fact he accepted BACK-UP money as a starter. He signed for pretty much Charlie Anderson money perhaps a little less. The team was ready to let him walk last time. The fact they drafted 2 ILB's and traded for another is a clear sign they at least want to spend some resources in a chance to do so. Dobbins can be a 2 down thumper who doesn't call plays (which is all Crowder will be doing this season since Edds will have his nickel role and Dansby will be making the calls), but at least bring the hope of some actual play making. In 2 part time years he's passed Channing's career in INT's and forced fumbles.

 

Pretty much shows how much Miami overpaid for Charlie Anderson.

I figure that because I watched him play and he has been solid. Another reason he was resigned was the fact that Miami didn't have anyone better. Even with all your faults you put on Crowder he was still heads and shoulders better than Akin and a full body better than Reggie Tobor. Hell an injured Crowder was better than Akin and Reggie.

Dobbins is a possibility, however he is going to have to prove it. Same with Edds who hasn't played a NFL down yet.

 

Well yah Anderson is overpaid but it's not like Crowder is making starter money.

* 2009: $1.5 million
* 2010: $2.1 million
* 2011: $2.5 million

Honestly that's less then Greg Camarillo's contract.

That isn't a contract you give a starter that your comfortable with. To me it screams 'stop-gap measure'.

 

To say he is solid at tackling we first must determine your definition of a solid tackler. If your definition is when he is in position to make a tackle does he normally make it. Then the answer would be yes he is indeed a Solid tackler.

If by solid tackler we broaden the spectrum and include diagnosing a play, hitting the correct hole, shedding a blocker if needed and then making a tackle he is anything but average. He's piss poor to put it polity. Let's look at how he stacks up to other 3-4 Inside Backers.

[TABLE="head; width=550px"]#|Name|Team|Snaps|Overall|Tks|Snaps/Tks
1|Jon Beason|CAR|1046|7.2|121|8.64
2|Patrick Willis|SF|1116|32.6|117|9.54
3|Barrett Ruud|TB|1078|3.2|109|9.89
4|Kirk Morrison|OAK|1041|5.2|105|9.91
4|Demorrio Williams|KC|733|-6.4|105|6.98
6|Curtis Lofton|ATL|1010|8.1|104|9.71
7|London Fletcher-Baker|WAS|1055|11.6|102|10.34
8|James Laurinaitis|SL|1061|0.1|100|10.61
9|Ray Lewis|BLT|1015|27.1|97|10.46
10|D.J. Williams|DEN|1047|-5.9|95|11.02
11|Karlos Dansby|ARZ|1024|7.4|93|11.01
11|DeMeco Ryans|HST|1054|6.2|93|11.33
13|David Hawthorne|SEA|891|13.9|92|9.68
14|Stephen Tulloch|TEN|858|6.6|89|9.64
15|Jonathan Vilma|NO|1006|4.7|86|11.70
16|Larry Foote|DET|924|5.3|85|10.87
17|Nick Barnett|GB|934|26.1|83|11.25
18|Paul Posluszny|BUF|805|15|82|9.82
19|Keith Brooking|DAL|804|13|81|9.93
19|Bradie James|DAL|908|7.8|81|11.21
19|Justin Durant|JAX|758|7|81|9.36
22|Dhani Jones|CIN|1015|-5.1|79|12.85
23|David Harris|NYJ|977|7|78|12.53
23|James Farrior|PIT|1033|2|78|13.24
23|Gary Brackett|IND|881|0.2|78|11.29
26|Stephen Cooper|SD|971|-11.3|71|13.68
27|Jerod Mayo|NE|726|-0.8|67|10.84
28|Andra Davis|DEN|547|16.3|65|8.42
28|E.J. Henderson|MIN|670|14.8|65|10.31
30|Hunter Hillenmeyer|CHI|810|-3.6|64|12.66
31|A.J. Hawk|GB|625|0.6|62|10.08
32|Takeo Spikes|SF|608|16.9|60|10.13
32|Corey Mays|KC|727|-15.5|60|12.12
34|Gary Guyton|NE|844|0.2|54|15.63
35|Lawrence Timmons|PIT|817|14|51|16.02
35|Akin Ayodele|MIA|706|-8.6|51|13.84
37|Gerald Hayes|ARZ|611|-6.3|47|13.00
38|Brandon Siler|SD|340|14.7|45|7.56
39|Channing Crowder|MIA|717|-6.8|43|16.67[/TABLE]


Not only was he ranked 39th in tackles when compared to other 3-4 Inside Backers but if you compare how many snaps it takes him to get a tackle (16.67) he once again is ranked 39th (maybe lower as I only compared him to the top 39 backers in tackles).



Not only should we be able to replace this lack of performance, but I'll take it one step further and say if we don't we're in trouble.


Note: Information gathered from Pro football Focus.

 

That's pretty damn hard to do when you already suck nuts like Clamming Chowder.

 

Doesn't change the fact that he was still the best inside linebacker in Miami for the last two years.

 

The problem with tackle statistics is that they are not 100% accurate. Different teams use different ways to count tackles.

Profootballfocus is also not infallible. It can be used to make an argument, however to use it as the only point in an argument is false as they have ranked players who I know are not very good, very high.

Third you can make an argument using profootballfocus that when not injured Crowder is pretty good, using his 2008 statistics.

To say that Crowder has been unspectacular, I agree. To say he has sucked balls, I totally disagree.

Reggie Tobor sucks balls. He is much better than Reggie Tobor.

 

I certainly agree that PFF is not infallible but in this instance I just used two statistics both of which are correct or close enough for all intensive purposes. Snaps and Tackles. That's it. I also only compared 3-4 Inside Backers.

Using those two stats alone his affinity for making tackles is borderline pathetic. But I will also respect the fact nothing can be said to sway your opinion of Crowder.

Time will tell all I guess.

 

#1 Tackles is not correct. It is subjective per team. Snaps is 100% infallible. Tackles is not.

You also used 2009 injury statistical year, and if you used 2008 statistics he would look like a very good linebacker as he had a very good year in 2008.

I am very wary of PFF because one year they rated the Seahawks Right Tackle as the best in the league when he was #5 on the team. They might be getting better, however I do know that Akin is much worse than Channing and yet Akin was rated better, so there is a flaw in the use of the stat.

Now you can make an argument that he won't be coming back to preinjury form or he is too big a liability. That is a possibility. I am open to that.

I am not going to jump on the Dobbins bandwagon because I have seen many instances where some back up has nice stats and then when they become a starter they fizzle. Also right now none of the rookie linebackers were drafted high enough to say Crowder is gone next year.

I just do not understand the Crowder hate. He isn't a great player, however he has been solid when not injured, he took less money to remain a Dolphin, he is a funny guy who isn't a jerk, he is classy, he doesn't give up and gives his all and is loyal.

I wouldn't mind upgrading Crowder, however I also wouldn't mind upgrading Jake Long or Chad Henne. My opinion of him could be swayed, however I just do not see the argument that has proven that he sucks balls.

 

pick you battles carefully
no legs in your debate
we see this way too often

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0MQf8Hr-z4"]YouTube- Channing Crowder meets Mike Bell[/ame]

 

Killshot...

 

IMO, the only way Moses makes it is if he is the starter. He is not a good special teamer ala Torbor and Anderson. Walden isn't the STs maven he was cracked up to be in 2008, considering he played in just 11 games while Torbor and Anderson each played all 16 games and you can bet were on all the cover and return units. I don't think it is unreasonable that considering we'll keep probably 9 LBs that all 4 rookies make it.

 

I love Edds and hope he can become a starter for us sooner or later, but when Zach beat out Del Rio, it wasn't Del Rio in his prime. One could argue that a 33 yr old Del Rio was a more formidable competition for Zach than Crowder at any age, I suppose.

 

Is there any doubt whether Dansby can handle calling signals for the defense? Not to me. That responsibility will no longer fall to Crowder I'm guessing.

Crowder is a middle of the pack run stuffer as ILBs go. As a cover backer or a blitzer he is barely more than a non factor.

 

If Dobbins beats out Crowder and is declared the starter during camp, could Crowder as a backup be any factor on STs to the degree Torbor and Anderson are? If he loses his starting gig, then he stands a good chance of not even being on the roster. ALL backup LBs MUST play STs at as high a level as possible. We know Torbor and Anderson are pretty solid on STs. We know Moses isn't. Crowder has been starting since he was a rookie. This was by far his worst season. Sec126 said he played injured since early in the season. Could that have been a key factor in his decline in performance?

 

Crowder started 13 games as a rookie 3rd rounder. It is not unreasonable to think a rookie 4th round LB in a deeper draft, could stand as much chance of starting.

 

Adam has said a few times already that Edds can't take on and shed blocks and/or play the run very well. I do not agree with him. What say you?

 

He has had surgery on both knees over the years. So, IMO, it more of how long will the knee(s) hold up

 

Both of the past 2 seasons, PFF had Akin worse than CC.
2008:
CC was +15.7 and Akin a +0.9
2009:
CC was -6.8 and Akin a -8.6

 

I play catch w/ my daughter at least twice a week and I assure you she makes that catch. She probably scores with it .

I'm not arguing that it wasnt a big play. I'm saying it was a big play by WAKE, which Crowder was the beneficiary of. If you want to give him credit for making the catch go ahead, but if we were in court and you presented that play as evidence, the judge would throw it out as circumstantial.

 

Well, we signed him to a 3 yr deal at age 25. That should tell you what the FO thinks of this guy. A 5-6 yr deal says "We want to keep you till youre washed up and then get rid of you". CC didnt get that. Instead he got a "We dont really want you, but we have bigger fish to fry so you can stay for another year or two" contract. I'll admit its been wise to keep him around because he was serviceable and b/c you cant replace everyone in a year or even two. But I'm almost certain he's not in the long term plans of the team and whenever I watch him play, or hear him talk, I can see why.

 

Competition is the Elixir of Success: let them compete.

 

At this point in time, Crowder is a known quantity. We know his strengths and weaknesses. What we don't know very well is Edds and Dobbins strengths and weaknesses, yet. To make a statement that Crowder is going to be cut is rather ridiculous until we and more importantly the staff knows more about these guys brought in as 'replacements'...