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Why wouldn't we out TUA in late game?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    If TUA is actually healthy enough to be backup and were playing games where were trailing bad or winning big like yesterday wouldn't it be beneficial to sit fitz and let TUA do some spot work? Ease him into the lineup and het some real NFL experience so we can work on some thing?

    whats the reasoning behind not letting him have some real game experience??
     
  2. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Fitzmagic was the primary reason for the win. He deserved to finish it out.
     
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  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Why did Aaron Rodgers sit on the bench for 3 years?
     
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  4. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    What does handing the ball off accomplish?
     
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  5. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And if he gets marched out there, that's all anyone would talk about. Not the utter domination of the 9ers. If he was bad, he's a bust. If he's good, it's a QB controversy.
     
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  6. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Consider the following for context:
    Miami is the youngest team in the league this year.
    Miami has the second highest number of new players this year.
    Flores is in his second year coaching this team from ground up.
    Chan Gailey was brought in and Fitz knows him and the offensive scheme.
    Last year we saw a team go from a historically horrible start to one of the best finishes that year.
    We had lots of new players last year and lots more changes this year.

    Now, here are some quotes from the post-game presser today:

    Fitzpatrick: “Evaluating a few games before that, we haven’t taken enough shots down the field... It was a big part of today’s game plan... Having that feeling of confidence early and knowing we’re going to play well, that really helps out especially with some of the youth and inexperience we have on our team... Playing quarterback in this league is hard, and after 16 years, I still can’t figure it out ... I couldn’t wait to get back out there on the field and the fact Flo has as much confidence in me as he does, that really helps me."

    Jerome Baker: "Different looks. That’s really all it was... Guys just lined up in different spots ... Sometimes the coaches didn’t tell us, we just did it.”"

    Then Hunt got his first career start and jumped in at right tackle with Davis moving over to LT.
    Hunt: “I didn’t feel any pressure, I’ve been preparing, we’ve all been preparing and I was ready for the opportunity. It was a last minute kind of deal.”

    What's that got to do with Tua?

    If you read between the lines, here's what struck me - the whole team are clearly learning, at every position. Flores as HC is responsible over it all and obviously the guy who is bring all that together. His eyes are on the entire team.

    Fitz talked about how important it was for them to gain confidence and also how he, even as a vet, appreciates and benefits from the confidence Flores has in and has shown for him - "that really helps me".

    Flores is building something big - looking at all angles. He's evaluating, reconstructing, he's adjusting game from game. That includes evaluating WRs, RBs, OL, etc. I can imagine that having a veteran QB as both a leader and a player, one who knows the system like Fitz does, is a big help to Flores right now. It allows him to evaluate all those others guys. It allows him also to build stability into what he's doing. Stability that benefits the players because they trust him and can grow together. Stability that benefits Flores as he tweak one piece or two here and there even as he gets a sense of what works and what doesn't. He building a system, and he's building a culture of trust and confidence - for the whole team. This isn't an established team. It's one that Flores is working to establish.

    Now, if that sounds like a reasonable assessment of what could be going on within the Dolphins at present, then it could help us to understand that for Flores, seeing a young, rookie QB get a few snaps here and there isn't the most important thing. Flores is clearly planning in all areas and will certainly have a plan for Tua and he'll be trusting that plan. Right now, it seems to be the case that Tua's place is to train, and watch, and learn. To see what Flores is building, to see how Fitz handles the responsibilities of an NFL QB. Flores is working on something that takes a lot of consideration and balance and Tua is just one piece.

    Were this an established system that hadn't just cut every man and his grandma it would be easier to insert one key piece. It's not. So it makes sense that Flores might want to be patient and just throw a rookie QB into a turbulent situation - something that might hurt his development, and something that might not provide the stability and constancy that Flores wants to provide for all the others too. Something they clearly appreciate.

    There may be other factors too. I may be completely off here. I'm just sharing what I see as I try to look at, and think about, the big picture. As I do so, I can see plenty of reasons why Flores might want to keep Tua in his back pocket for now, and only put him out once the field has been set, the team is more ready, and Tua has had a chance to feel comfortable and confident, build rapport with the team, and learn what is expected, etc etc. Basically, once he, and everything else, is ready.
     
  7. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    To me it's less of an issue with Tua and more with the staff.

    If you dont want to play Tua yet, fine I respect that. However, dont dress him as the #2. Fitz shouldnt be out there late in blowouts, whether its Tua coming in or someone else I think its ridiculous to say Tua can dress as the #2 and be a hit away from full time starter, but he cant come in and hand a few balls off late to get Fitz out.

    You cant have it both ways. You cant dress him as the #2 AND be adamant about not playing him. Pick one.
     
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  8. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Brett Favre
     
  9. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a rule in the NFL that if he came in he could only hand off? He could have came in and they could have called all passing plays to get him some real game experience and get used to the speed of the game. Do you not think that would be a good idea? When would you like him to play?
     
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  10. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At some point you're just going to have to accept the fact that Flores knows more about what's going on than we do. It's what he does for a living, he's been doing it for a long time successfully, he learned from the best and, it's his job on the line. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you see something that he doesn't. It's his decision, his job and, he seems to be good at it. Enjoy the ride.
     
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  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Dude, you just seem to go around the threads repeating the same posts and ignoring lots of the replies.

    I answered this very post elsewhere.

    No HC is going to call sub-optimal plays. They're not going to call a bunch of pass plays when all they want to do is run out the clock. They're just not.

    Could you try to engage with some of the other reasons people have offered as to why Flores might not be putting Tua on the field, please?
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I thought we already went through this one in the other thread. Favre in 2005 (the year Rodgers was drafted) played below average with a 70.9 rating when league average was 80.1. Furthermore, that GB team in 2005 had a 4-12 record, so you would have labeled Rodgers a bust because he couldn't beat out a below average QB on a losing team.

    That was year 1 of course. In year 2, Favre was once again below average! He ended with a 72.7 rating when the league average was 80.4. So once again Rodgers couldn't beat out a below average QB. It was only in year 3 that Favre was above average with a 95.7 rating, leading the team to a 13-3 record. Guess what? THAT's when they replaced Favre with Rodgers!

    Why? Partly it's because Favre was toying with retirement (he retired, then asked back in), but note this quote:
    So like I said in the other thread, not being able to beat out a below average starter in practice is NOT a red flag, and you can't use Brett Favre to support your view because it's actually evidence against what you're saying.
     
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  13. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Keep burying your heads in the sand guys. We drafted a QB #5 that is either too fragile or not good enough to even come in during garbage time. Meanwhile burrow and Herbert are playing, getting experience and working out their rookie mistakes. Our guy is holding a clip board. Keep thinking there is nothing wrong.
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I don't want to see Tua anytime soon...especially the way the offense exploded yesterday. The last thing I want is for him to take a hit on that hip and be out for years- there's simply no reason to rush that approach if we're competing. And if we're being perfectly honest, we've played five total games against four solid teams, and the offense was productive every single week after we got past week 1.

    If I'm Flores, I'd do exactly what we did....keep Fitz out there and run a little Wildcat with our QB converts. They're healthy and if one of them gets hurt, it doesn't change the course of the entire franchise over mopping up in garbage time.

    With that said, I do want to see some Tua later this season if we have a shot at the #1 pick and/or our offense is struggling...the Texans pick is a bit of a wildcard in that regard. So far I'm not seeing the need for that rapid evaluation though, so a benched Tua is perfectly fine by me. And just to remind folks, I said the exact same thing about Tannehill in his rookie year....there's no reason to rush these kids just because other teams rush them. They only do that because they don't have a competent QB1 to hold the reigns until that kid is 100% ready.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is CLEARLY nothing wrong & the team has spoken to your exact points multiple times. He's coming off a major injury and there's no reason to rush him onto the field.
     
  16. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    A major injury from which he's been medically cleared to play. When do you think be should play? Next year?
     
  17. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    cool story bro
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    YES! Or play him if Fitz gets hurt. But don't rush the kid onto the field just because people think he's competing with Burrow or Herbert somehow.....that's all nonsense. We are looking for him to be the starter for the next 15+ years and you don't gamble that on filling out garbage time.

    If he has to start then that's a different story, but we're not there yet.
     
  19. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you liked it bro
     
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  20. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    He should play when Flores (you know, the guy who sees him in practice) decides it's time. Do I want to see him play right now? Sure. Do I think there is some sinister reason why Flores won't play him? Nah.
     
  21. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is anything sinister going on. I just think is injury is worse then they thought or he looks like garbage in practice.
     
  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    It's not sinister, but it's incredibly stupid in my opinion to not dress a backup QB who cant get your starter out of blowouts.

    If they are THAT worried about him, fine, but dont dress him if he cant provide basic value currently. The last thing we need is Fitz getting hurt in garbage time. Dress a PS QB who can come in and hand the ball off if you want to keep Tua sidelined for now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  23. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    After yesterday I don‘t feel the urge for Tua. We got something better imo, we got a good coach. What he did last year, how the team competes and how he is handling the Tua stuff. Even if Tua is a bust or whatever, it looks like we found ourselves a coach finally.
     
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  24. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I was wondering the same thing. Put Tua in for the last couple of series so he can get his feet wet. Makes perfect sense to me.
     
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  25. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    If Tua is a bust whatever? So blowing a #5 pick on a QB who is a bust is whatever? Well if he is a bust, we better find out sooner rather than later because we are going to need to address it in next year's draft. Coaches who waste first round draft picks don't stay employed for too long
     
  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Disagree with this so much.

    Football isnt like science or being a doctor. There is no standard protocol and ANYONE can be a student of the game. To become a HC you've obviously had some success, but that doesnt mean you cant be questioned or make poor choices that are obvious to others.
     
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  27. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Did Flores pick Tua by himself? Would Tua be the first top 5 pick that is a bust?
    Are you obsessed with the guy? Jesus, the guy didn’t even hit the field yet and the Dolphins seem to be on a good path for the first time, since I don’t remember when. I would understand you if we‘d suck but it looks like we‘re not and you now what, you‘ll get to see Tua sooner or later and then we‘ll all see what he is and what he is not...
     
  28. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not obsessed with him, I didnt want him and hated the pick. I'll have to disagree with you about being on a good path. The look pretty much like every other Dolphins team from the past 15 years. We are 2-3, hovering around 500 like they usually do. They had a good game yesterday and everyone is excited now. I've seen this movie before. My thought is tua is gonna be a bust and Flores hiding him away is proof of it.
     
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Heads in the sand?

    How about you take your blindfold off?

    Various posters, including me, have offered possible reasons why Tua isn't on the field yet, but you refuse to engage them and instead return to parroting your same, pre-recorded perspective - Tua's either horrible or broken. That's it? Two possibilities? There's no chance it could be something else? At all? Why are your two possibilities the only two possibilities? Because you say so?

    Please try to give actual answers as to why the reasons offered by others aren't plausible.
     
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  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    See, that doesn't even make any sense. The 2005 Packers were 4-12. The 2006 Packers were 8-8. Now, by your philosophy Rodgers should have started sometime during the 2005 season since the Packers sucked worse than a $2.00 hooker...but he didn't. And Rodgers is one of the league's premier quarterbacks so cool your jets on crying about Tua.
     
  31. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Because if be was good enough and healthy enough, he'd be playing. Fitz had a good game yesterday but he's very inconsistent and Tua can't beat him out. Miami is 2-3 it's not like we're 5-0. Fitz is not taking the dolphins to the playoffs. Those are my two reasons. What are your reasons as to why he's not starting?
     
  32. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    It was still Brett Favre. You don't just replace him with a rookie. Plus he went on to Minnesota and took them to the playoffs, if I remember correctly. He was still playing at a high level. The entire packer team sucked, not favre. Fitz on his best day isn't in the same league as favre.
     
  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    And yet, the Dolphins are playing GOOD football with Fitz at the helm. What are you going to do, bench your quarterback and team captain because he's playing WELL?

    NONSENSE!
     
  34. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    He's had two good games and being 2-3 does not equal playing good football. All I'm saying is, is that our #5 pick QB can't beat out an inconsistent journeyman QB. That doesnt concern you?
     
  35. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    The fact you're asking me that proves that you haven't read what I posted here and elsewhere. Scroll back up and read, and then reply.
     
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Fitz on his best day can match anyone in the league. The problem is he doesnt consistently have his best day.

    I dont think Fitz is as bad as you think he is. Hes above average for sure and if he had any consistency would be a franchise QB or near that.
     
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  37. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    No, I read what you wrote. That's all coach speak. Do you think for one second that if Flores thought tua gave us a better chance to win than fitz that he wouldnt be in there? The NFL is black and white. It's all about wins and losses and that's it. My point is that tua is not good enough to give us a better chance to win than an inconsistent journeyman QB. That is concerning. Herbert is averaging over 300 yards a game. Tyrod Taylor won't be starting again in San Diego. When we play San Diego in a few weeks and Herbert is out there tearing it up and Tua is holding a clipboard, your not gonna be a little pissed?
     
  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Ryan Fitzpatrick is currently ranked 4th in the NFL, behind Rodgers, Allen and Mahomes.

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

    Yea, he sucks that bad!
     
  39. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he's horrible. He's serviceable. He's jay fiedler. I'm gonna disagree with you on him being above average. I just looked up his record. He's 35-55, well below average.
     
  40. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, after 5 games. He's 35-55 for his career. He's not good
     

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