Why wouldn't we out TUA in late game?

Fitzmagic was the primary reason for the win. He deserved to finish it out.

"Dorfdad wrote:

If TUA is actually healthy enough to be backup and were playing games where were trailing bad or winning big like yesterday wouldn't it be beneficial to sit fitz and let TUA do some spot work? Ease him into the lineup and het some real NFL experience so we can work on some thing?

whats the reasoning behind not letting him have some real game experience??

Why did Aaron Rodgers sit on the bench for 3 years?

What does handing the ball off accomplish?

And if he gets marched out there, that's all anyone would talk about. Not the utter domination of the 9ers. If he was bad, he's a bust. If he's good, it's a QB controversy.

Consider the following for context:
Miami is the youngest team in the league this year.
Miami has the second highest number of new players this year.
Flores is in his second year coaching this team from ground up.
Chan Gailey was brought in and Fitz knows him and the offensive scheme.
Last year we saw a team go from a historically horrible start to one of the best finishes that year.
We had lots of new players last year and lots more changes this year.

Now, here are some quotes from the post-game presser today:

Fitzpatrick: “Evaluating a few games before that, we haven’t taken enough shots down the field... It was a big part of today’s game plan... Having that feeling of confidence early and knowing we’re going to play well, that really helps out especially with some of the youth and inexperience we have on our team... Playing quarterback in this league is hard, and after 16 years, I still can’t figure it out ... I couldn’t wait to get back out there on the field and the fact Flo has as much confidence in me as he does, that really helps me."

Jerome Baker: "Different looks. That’s really all it was... Guys just lined up in different spots ... Sometimes the coaches didn’t tell us, we just did it.”"

Then Hunt got his first career start and jumped in at right tackle with Davis moving over to LT.
Hunt: “I didn’t feel any pressure, I’ve been preparing, we’ve all been preparing and I was ready for the opportunity. It was a last minute kind of deal.”

What's that got to do with Tua?

If you read between the lines, here's what struck me - the whole team are clearly learning, at every position. Flores as HC is responsible over it all and obviously the guy who is bring all that together. His eyes are on the entire team.

Fitz talked about how important it was for them to gain confidence and also how he, even as a vet, appreciates and benefits from the confidence Flores has in and has shown for him - "that really helps me".

Flores is building something big - looking at all angles. He's evaluating, reconstructing, he's adjusting game from game. That includes evaluating WRs, RBs, OL, etc. I can imagine that having a veteran QB as both a leader and a player, one who knows the system like Fitz does, is a big help to Flores right now. It allows him to evaluate all those others guys. It allows him also to build stability into what he's doing. Stability that benefits the players because they trust him and can grow together. Stability that benefits Flores as he tweak one piece or two here and there even as he gets a sense of what works and what doesn't. He building a system, and he's building a culture of trust and confidence - for the whole team. This isn't an established team. It's one that Flores is working to establish.

Now, if that sounds like a reasonable assessment of what could be going on within the Dolphins at present, then it could help us to understand that for Flores, seeing a young, rookie QB get a few snaps here and there isn't the most important thing. Flores is clearly planning in all areas and will certainly have a plan for Tua and he'll be trusting that plan. Right now, it seems to be the case that Tua's place is to train, and watch, and learn. To see what Flores is building, to see how Fitz handles the responsibilities of an NFL QB. Flores is working on something that takes a lot of consideration and balance and Tua is just one piece.

Were this an established system that hadn't just cut every man and his grandma it would be easier to insert one key piece. It's not. So it makes sense that Flores might want to be patient and just throw a rookie QB into a turbulent situation - something that might hurt his development, and something that might not provide the stability and constancy that Flores wants to provide for all the others too. Something they clearly appreciate.

There may be other factors too. I may be completely off here. I'm just sharing what I see as I try to look at, and think about, the big picture. As I do so, I can see plenty of reasons why Flores might want to keep Tua in his back pocket for now, and only put him out once the field has been set, the team is more ready, and Tua has had a chance to feel comfortable and confident, build rapport with the team, and learn what is expected, etc etc. Basically, once he, and everything else, is ready.

To me it's less of an issue with Tua and more with the staff.

If you dont want to play Tua yet, fine I respect that. However, dont dress him as the #2. Fitz shouldnt be out there late in blowouts, whether its Tua coming in or someone else I think its ridiculous to say Tua can dress as the #2 and be a hit away from full time starter, but he cant come in and hand a few balls off late to get Fitz out.

You cant have it both ways. You cant dress him as the #2 AND be adamant about not playing him. Pick one.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Why did Aaron Rodgers sit on the bench for 3 years?

Brett Favre

"byroan wrote:

What does handing the ball off accomplish?

Is there a rule in the NFL that if he came in he could only hand off? He could have came in and they could have called all passing plays to get him some real game experience and get used to the speed of the game. Do you not think that would be a good idea? When would you like him to play?

At some point you're just going to have to accept the fact that Flores knows more about what's going on than we do. It's what he does for a living, he's been doing it for a long time successfully, he learned from the best and, it's his job on the line. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you see something that he doesn't. It's his decision, his job and, he seems to be good at it. Enjoy the ride.

"canesz06 wrote:

Is there a rule in the NFL that if he came in he could only hand off? He could have came in and they could have called all passing plays to get him some real game experience and get used to the speed of the game. Do you not think that would be a good idea? When would you like him to play?

Dude, you just seem to go around the threads repeating the same posts and ignoring lots of the replies.

I answered this very post elsewhere.

No HC is going to call sub-optimal plays. They're not going to call a bunch of pass plays when all they want to do is run out the clock. They're just not.

Could you try to engage with some of the other reasons people have offered as to why Flores might not be putting Tua on the field, please?

"canesz06 wrote:

Brett Favre

I thought we already went through this one in the other thread. Favre in 2005 (the year Rodgers was drafted) played below average with a 70.9 rating when league average was 80.1. Furthermore, that GB team in 2005 had a 4-12 record, so you would have labeled Rodgers a bust because he couldn't beat out a below average QB on a losing team.

That was year 1 of course. In year 2, Favre was once again below average! He ended with a 72.7 rating when the league average was 80.4. So once again Rodgers couldn't beat out a below average QB. It was only in year 3 that Favre was above average with a 95.7 rating, leading the team to a 13-3 record. Guess what? THAT's when they replaced Favre with Rodgers!

Why? Partly it's because Favre was toying with retirement (he retired, then asked back in), but note this quote:

According to Bob McGinn in the Journal Sentinel, after the conclusion of the 2007 season, "Just about everyone who counted in the football department reached the conclusion that Favre could never win another championship. His dismal playoff record in the past decade couldn't be overlooked. And the Packers concluded that it would be the mother of all mistakes if Aaron Rodgers got away without being properly evaluated as a starter.

So like I said in the other thread, not being able to beat out a below average starter in practice is NOT a red flag, and you can't use Brett Favre to support your view because it's actually evidence against what you're saying.

Keep burying your heads in the sand guys. We drafted a QB #5 that is either too fragile or not good enough to even come in during garbage time. Meanwhile burrow and Herbert are playing, getting experience and working out their rookie mistakes. Our guy is holding a clip board. Keep thinking there is nothing wrong.

Personally, I don't want to see Tua anytime soon...especially the way the offense exploded yesterday. The last thing I want is for him to take a hit on that hip and be out for years- there's simply no reason to rush that approach if we're competing. And if we're being perfectly honest, we've played five total games against four solid teams, and the offense was productive every single week after we got past week 1.

If I'm Flores, I'd do exactly what we did....keep Fitz out there and run a little Wildcat with our QB converts. They're healthy and if one of them gets hurt, it doesn't change the course of the entire franchise over mopping up in garbage time.

With that said, I do want to see some Tua later this season if we have a shot at the #1 pick and/or our offense is struggling...the Texans pick is a bit of a wildcard in that regard. So far I'm not seeing the need for that rapid evaluation though, so a benched Tua is perfectly fine by me. And just to remind folks, I said the exact same thing about Tannehill in his rookie year....there's no reason to rush these kids just because other teams rush them. They only do that because they don't have a competent QB1 to hold the reigns until that kid is 100% ready.

"canesz06 wrote:

Keep burying your heads in the sand guys. We drafted a QB #5 that is either too fragile or not good enough to even come in during garbage time. Meanwhile burrow and Herbert are playing, getting experience and working out their rookie mistakes. Our guy is holding a clip board. Keep thinking there is nothing wrong.

There is CLEARLY nothing wrong & the team has spoken to your exact points multiple times. He's coming off a major injury and there's no reason to rush him onto the field.

"KeyFin wrote:

There is CLEARLY nothing wrong & the team has spoken to your exact points multiple times. He's coming off a major injury and there's no reason to rush him onto the field.

A major injury from which he's been medically cleared to play. When do you think be should play? Next year?

"canesz06 wrote:

Keep burying your heads in the sand guys. We drafted a QB #5 that is either too fragile or not good enough to even come in during garbage time. Meanwhile burrow and Herbert are playing, getting experience and working out their rookie mistakes. Our guy is holding a clip board. Keep thinking there is nothing wrong.

cool story bro

"canesz06 wrote:

A major injury from which he's been medically cleared to play. When do you think be should play? Next year?

YES! Or play him if Fitz gets hurt. But don't rush the kid onto the field just because people think he's competing with Burrow or Herbert somehow.....that's all nonsense. We are looking for him to be the starter for the next 15+ years and you don't gamble that on filling out garbage time.

If he has to start then that's a different story, but we're not there yet.

"M1NDCRlME wrote:

cool story bro

Glad you liked it bro

"canesz06 wrote:

A major injury from which he's been medically cleared to play. When do you think be should play? Next year?

He should play when Flores (you know, the guy who sees him in practice) decides it's time. Do I want to see him play right now? Sure. Do I think there is some sinister reason why Flores won't play him? Nah.

"M1NDCRlME wrote:

He should play when Flores (you know, the guy who sees him in practice) decides it's time. Do I want to see him play right now? Sure. Do I think there is some sinister reason why Flores won't play him? Nah.

I don't think there is anything sinister going on. I just think is injury is worse then they thought or he looks like garbage in practice.

"M1NDCRlME wrote:

He should play when Flores (you know, the guy who sees him in practice) decides it's time. Do I want to see him play right now? Sure. Do I think there is some sinister reason why Flores won't play him? Nah.

It's not sinister, but it's incredibly stupid in my opinion to not dress a backup QB who cant get your starter out of blowouts.

If they are THAT worried about him, fine, but dont dress him if he cant provide basic value currently. The last thing we need is Fitz getting hurt in garbage time. Dress a PS QB who can come in and hand the ball off if you want to keep Tua sidelined for now.

After yesterday I don‘t feel the urge for Tua. We got something better imo, we got a good coach. What he did last year, how the team competes and how he is handling the Tua stuff. Even if Tua is a bust or whatever, it looks like we found ourselves a coach finally.

"Dorfdad wrote:

If TUA is actually healthy enough to be backup and were playing games where were trailing bad or winning big like yesterday wouldn't it be beneficial to sit fitz and let TUA do some spot work? Ease him into the lineup and het some real NFL experience so we can work on some thing?

whats the reasoning behind not letting him have some real game experience??

I was wondering the same thing. Put Tua in for the last couple of series so he can get his feet wet. Makes perfect sense to me.

"JJ_79 wrote:

After yesterday I don‘t feel the urge for Tua. We got something better imo, we got a good coach. What he did last year, how the team competes and how he is handling the Tua stuff. Even if Tua is a bust or whatever, it looks like we found ourselves a coach finally.

If Tua is a bust whatever? So blowing a #5 pick on a QB who is a bust is whatever? Well if he is a bust, we better find out sooner rather than later because we are going to need to address it in next year's draft. Coaches who waste first round draft picks don't stay employed for too long