This goes down as a "maybe", however Gaither was a 35th rd pick in the supplemental draft, got to play quickly, now can net the Ravens a #2 pick from the Redskins. Andrew Gardner's resume: http://ramblinwreck.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/gardner_andrew00.html Hmm started every game, sounds like Dimitri Tsoumpas.. Jared Gaither: Not much surface difference, film or course may support all of the accolades, or not, but Gardner is now worse a prospect than Gaither was coming into the NFL, they both are similar. That is why Gardner should be given a chance to show what he can do for the Phins in the preseason as that is the only way his trade value will grow. Have to hand it to Jeff Ireland, the depth in 2010 is light years better than it was in 2007 with "hope' that Joe Toledo could avoid injury stepping out of hot tubs...
If he is so good, which I think he can be, why do you want to trade him so badly? Maybe he should replace Smiley @ LG, or even put him at RT and move Vernon Carey at LG as has been suggested by a few on these boards. Plus we need solid backups on the OL, as we've seen it's hard to keep an entire OL healthy for a whole season.
Because a team can only keep "x" number of offensive linemen, with Garner and Murtha and Gardner and Berger, if trades aren't made you end up with a roster full of players who you cannot play, but cannot expose to being poached on the practice squad. If Gardner plays at a high level in the preseason, he can be traded off to a team that needs a Tackle desperately..and the "other" Tackle prospect takes Gardner's place. That is why they double up on tackle prospects who have upside, Gardner has the awards, Murtha is a physical freak ala Bruce Campbell this year.
I see your point, gee, isn't it nice to have so many strong solid players backing up our OL? Sure a lot different from a couple years ago.
Only 2, and those are maybes, Andrew Garnder...down the road...and Tyler Thigpen.. Which unsurprisingly, 'Mando thinks will happen, or some trade will happen concerning the Qb's: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/ Now relying on Mando for sound insight is..err...unwise...however in this case I do think he is correct, we did not have 4 Qb's in 2007...for very long and have not had that many since then.
Well regardless of whether you agree on trading Gardner or not......at least gives pads credit for an interesting write up/comparison and providing some content...... jeez guys, tough crowd...lol
Certainly, down the road a year or so, assuming there is no lockout, then he becomes a valuable trade item..or makes Vern Carey expendable. Either way, if he doesn't play enough to show what he can do, then he will remain a "prospect" the same as Murtha and Hartline et al.
I absolutely think there's a trade ahead and IMO, it's likely to be Thigpen. The only way I see Penny going somewhere is if one of the teams drafting guys like Bradford or Claussen want a stop gap/ mentor QB. And in that situation, no one is going to give up much in picks. Thigpen has upside.......I'd say he's much more desirable
Sorry lol. It's just that, he suggested trading Wake, then Thigpen, then Garner and now Gardner. Agreed though, great write up.
I wouldn't deal him. He's got a lot of potential and could be a starter at RT IMO. He's good depth. God knows we need depth.
Garner and Gardner are somewhat interchangable, though Gardner is a better "pure" Tackle than Gardner. As for Cameron Wake, I remain convinced that if you want to remove the risk of a failure to convert to OLB, then he should be traded. If the risk doesn't bother anyone, then sure, he can be a great specialty player..for certain. Maybe my cautious nature ARafi, but to me you develop players for trade, ala the Patsies rather than bet the house on their "maybe' potential.
That is a part of it, maybe all of the depth has me jazzed a bit, what I'm seeing is Nate Garner is sort of the prototype of what they are trying to do, mainly use the normally dead spots on the roster to develop talent possibly for trade. Alen is correct though, Andrew Gardner is a really good Tackle prospect who probably would have went higher than the 5th rd, Draftscout had him as 3rd rounder, if not for a labrum tear that he played with anyway but still dinged him downwards in Draft 09.
Gardner was a very good OT before Paul Johnson installed the triple option. He was a good blindside protector and I really liked him. Then he got in that offense, it wasn't his strength and he tore his labrum and everyone went "uh oh?".
And he still made the all-ACC first team. Ireland and Gaines skill at finding gems on Day 3 is what I'm really looking forward to this year Alen. And if Gardner shines in preseason, the nature of the NFL means sooner or later, someone will lose a tackle, with Garner wearing the jack of all trades hat, Gardner could be attractive to a team that wants a LT, but doesn't want to overpay or sign an overthehill player like Pace or whomever. Recall the Packers search for a LT last yr?
im against trading thigpen unless it is a deal you cant refuse think about it henne is susceptible to an eye injury. he goes down god forbid then pat white plays. that is a disaster. if pennington comes in we know it will be 5 or 10 yard passes at the most. do we know about his arm now really? nah id rather keep the 2nd best QB on the roster especially seeing it is an offense driven league
i've been on the keep Gardner and trade Carey if the situation warrants .... but i just don't see that happening this year -- not with an uncapped year .... not worth the risk, unless we are absolutely certain he is ready. IF Gardner is that good, healed and stronger .... then he should be able to take over RT without significant drop off. Murtha was rated higher in the draft .... so it will be interesting to see where he is at. Neither of these 2 will go on the PS ... so we'd have to carry 4 - Ts on the roster or trade one of them. I gave it a chance this year ... but absolutely believe Long / Gardner are our starting Ts next year .... we are in a good position at T ... both now and long term.
sure is nice to see a thread discussing OL depth and how we could afford to possibly trade one weve come a long way in that area since 2007. i mean liwienski, hadnot satele, shelton we had zero depth back then
Why deal Carey when he's a good RT? It seems some are trying to create holes on this team when we have enough already. If Gardner develops, great, you have a guy who can fill in for Carey if/when he gets injured. If Carey stays healthy, that's even better because you're depth is very good and can step in at any time. Yeah, I think they ended up with TJ Lang, who struggled a lot.
I can recall the big topic in 07 was "has LJ Shelton lost enough weight to play better" or "Joe Toledo, injured again" or "Anthony Alabi, Houck's favorite Olineman" Oh, those were dark dark days.. Alen wrote: Because imho they plan on developing Olinemen..every year..think of the practice squad and inactive list as Ireland's minor league system, good enough to leave the practice squad? They then get called up to the "big league" of the 53 man roster something Shawne Murphy just could not accomplish, and that was with Sparano stroking the kid like Nuke LaLoosh in the Spring. But Gardner came up to the 53 man roster and never looked back. Put it this way Alen, do you think Lydon Murtha has the skills to play Tackle in the NFL?
I don't know about anyone else, I tend to like have solid backups. You can't win a superbowl without them.
Something that deserves mention: Recall when Mike Holmgren was the Packers HC, he developed, then traded several Qb's, Hasselback, Aaron Brooks etc. When Holmgren was in Seattle they developed Seneca Wallace, when Holmgren left town, Wallace left for a ridiculously low draft pick like a 6th. Now, no Holmgren, the Seahawks gave up a trade down worth 20 slots to the Chargers, and a 2011 #3, for a Charlie Whitehurst, without Holmgren's system for developing Qb's, the Seahawks had to overpay for basically a career backup. Point being a solid Coach/GM can turn longshot picks into extra high picks on draft day just for players they developed at a low cost.
You need to plan on developing OL every year. That goes for every position. If you can upgrade at a position with a younger guy, you go for it. It's how Rich McKay did things in Tampa and was successful in turning that franchise around. I'm not sure he does. I think if he makes someones team, it'll be as a backup. I don't see him as a starter.
Garder must produce in the regular season which is going to be hard since carey and long seem very durable, Hopefuuly he develops like Garner did. We may have to get rid of one of them there names are to much alike.
With Jake Long and Vern Carey, we have bookends for a couple of years at least, the difference is behind them they develop Tackles for trade. I consider it a skill that they have. I think he could, but he is far to fragile, his athletic enough to play Te, but is constantly dinged up, if he can overcome that imho he could start..possibly. But their philosophy is, if he doesn't show he can be healthy, he will be gone and someone like Linknbach or Tyler Eastman will take his slot.
Right but you can't keep developing and trading. You're not helping yourself by filling a hole and then creating one at the same spot a couple years later.
WRT Carey, its and issue of $$$$ when the CAP comes back in '11 .... no other reason. as a GM, you can't pay everyone -- so if you can sell high, get a nice return, and not lose anything on the field ... that's what you do. It's something good teams do ... something we haven't ever done that i can remember.
I'm fairly certain that they signed the deal with a cap in mind so they are under cap rules and should be fine. If he's gone, I think it'll be because of performance, not contract IMO.
It's not a hole when they have proven they can manage it. When the Packers had Favre, they developed Hasselback to the point the Seachickens were willing to trade a #3 pick and swap draft positions. And Hassalback was a 6th rd pick. When you have solid starters that is when they can draft talented players behind them for trade bait.
Which makes zero sense to me, because all that leaves us behind Henne is a brittle aging veteran, and a guy who so far has shown no ability to play QB in the league. I'd get rid of Penny and White both, and draft a QB late like Zac Robinson or John Skelton for the #3 role, before I'd trade Thigpen. I can't believe it. Once we get a viable young backup QB for the first time in ages, so many want to trade him away. You think anyone would give a 1 or 2 for Thigpen? Not likely and it definitely is not in the team's best interests to trade him for less.
It's not that simple. How far do you think this team goes if Henne goes down for the year? Thiggy isn't consistent enough to save our season. Penny could handle things for a handful of games though, if Henne was just out for 2-3 games. Pat White? I'd rather just run the wildcat with Ronnie all game long. Thiggy is nice to have as a #2 QB, but I'd take a third rounder for him. I'm fairly sure his contract is up come next year, so either we franchise him for $14+ million, or he walks away to some team offering him a chance to start and #1 QB money. Why not get something for him this year? Nothing wrong with grabbing a project QB late in the draft either.
Andrew Gardner hasn't done jack in the NFL, Gaither has. Gaither is now an expendable LT because of the emergence of Michael Oher, who was fantastic last year. Gardner might get you a late round pick in a trade if you're lucky, that's about it. And if I recall correctly Gardner didn't look all that good in preseason last year- average at best. Personally I wasn't impressed. Even if he plays every snap in preseason this year I don't see him as having much trade value at all. I think that he projects as a career backup.
i believe you will be pleasantly surprised then by the improvement we'll get this year from him. he needed to fully recover from his shoulder injury and get stronger. regardless, i do not see him as trade bait, this year - or any year in the near future. Murtha, we'll see ... he has potential as well, but he was released - so obviously, he has more room to grow. with this regime penchant for taking Ts and turning them inwards along the line ... Murtha might fit this role - if he can't make it as a T. Then we pick up another prospect late in the draft ...
