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Why I think Beck still starts... or his Job to loose

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dgb11112, Apr 27, 2008.

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  1. dgb11112

    dgb11112 Hall Of Fame

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    Ok Guys and Alen..
    I tend to disagree with this post..


    I think that Beck wil be given a chance, and why wouldn't we take Henne or any good QB if they fell to us ( gee who was the dumb*&&T&*%) Coach that passed on one?

    Anyway to continue.

    To be a successful team in this league you MUST have 2 Talented QB on the roster to be successful long-term. I think that this was something you can't pass on. Let''s look at some of the other teams in the past.


    Joe Montana backup Steve Young

    Dan Marino backup Don Strock

    Bob Griese backup Earl Morrall

    John Elway backup Gary Kubiak

    Jim Kelly backup Frank Reich

    Brett Farve backup Aaron Rogers

    Mike Vick backup Matt Schwabb

    Drew Brees backup Phillip Rivers

    Now I know these aren't all household names or QB's that were going to the hall of fame but they could ALL manage a game or bring their teams back when they needed too.

    Now for the most evident Derrick Anderson Backup BRADY QUINN!

    We have all seen the write ups during the offseason about why you need a quality backup i.e the Brady Quinn Saga.
     
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  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Alen? What did I say ? Lol.
     
  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dunno, but apparently you arent one of the guys!

    Onto the post... I dont see why this has anything to do with Beck still being the starter. Ok, so great. Good teams always have a good starter, and a guy who can manage the game if need be. Yes. thats exactly what you want from your backup. Our situation is simply this... we have beck, we invested a 2nd rounder in him. Obviously were not 100% sold on him, and he may not be what the FO is looking for in a starting QB, however he has some great attributes to him. Then Henne comes along, a nice little gift with our 2nd pick in the 2nd round. You can't pass that up, especially when he's a guy we've targeted all along. Henne has size, intelligence, and a strong accurate arm. We also have McCown, who can be a solid backup. I think that the starting job is Henne's to loose. He's our new regime's guy, Beck isnt. Beck is going to have to do alot to win the job, or Henne is going to have to stink it right up IMO.

    As long as our 3 qb's are all given a chance to earn the job, and we decide to start the one who gives us the best chance of winning week in, and week out. I dont care who it is. JUST WIN! :up:
     
  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I am not sure if I did something good or bad but I will take it as a compliment regardless :up:
     
  5. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    if you're not one of the guys... im starting to wonder about you :lol: something you aren't telling us alen? :up:
     
  6. dgb11112

    dgb11112 Hall Of Fame

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    it was a post on why henne lol!
     
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  7. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    The two obvious things that are working against Beck are age and status as a holdover from the prior regime. He likely won't be the long-term answer simply because he's old for a second year player. He's also not getting the tiebreaker over either McCown or Henne. If he and one of those two are playing at around the same level, you can expect the guy picked by Parcells/Ireland/Sparano is going to be the one getting the nod.

    Now, he might go out there and outplay everybody. If so, good for him. I'm sure they won't bench him if he's really the better guy. His chances really are limited to him being the clear best option, though.
     
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  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    :lol: I am a growing boys guys. :lol:
     
  9. MIKE

    MIKE New Member

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    Great Post lots of insight I think!
     
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  10. MIKE

    MIKE New Member

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    Lol you guys are to funny
     
  11. dgb11112

    dgb11112 Hall Of Fame

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    Thanks Man!
     
  12. feelthepain

    feelthepain New Member

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    The only way Henne starts over Beck is if Beck is injured or Henne is given an unfair advantage, which like it or not wouldn't bet the first time that has happened. Beck has had a year of NFL life, what it's like to eat, breathe, travel, sleep and play in the NFL. Johns had a year of working with his coaches and his teammates. John Beck is signed and under contract. If you pay any attention at all to JI's press conference, he clearly states John Beck has done everything the coaches have asked of him. JI also said that taking Henne had nothing to do with how they felt about Beck and his position on this team.

    I know some fans here have their own ideas about who they think is best behind center, but John isn't just gonna step aside and let Chad take his spot as starter. If Chad wants it, he better be ready to earn it. This is good news for the coaches and fans of this team. We will see a very good battle in camp for the starting spot. This will also ensure the best player will be starting. A year ago John was getting all sorts of praise, not just from the fans that loved the pick, but most of the former QB now turned commentators, such as Steve Young and Ron Jaworski. John earned those praises for his college career and hard work. Now one season later after a lackluster performance behind the worst team in the league some fans are acting like John was the reason we were so bad, hardly a fair opinion.

    Every young QB will have to go to the "school of hard knocks" especially if they start for an 0-11 team with so many key injuries. Heck look at all top 5 picks and Hiesman Trophy winners that failed miserably. I think those that would rather have another QB start for the Dolphins are taking the addition of Henne and running with it. Enjoy the conversation, enjoy the banter, enjoy all the expectations and hopes, but be prepared to see Chad holding a clip borad, cause that's his new job. This isn't a shot at Henne or those that love him, but a vote of confidence in a guy who's whole entire life has been about playing football and the sacrifices made to ensure that life. I think anyone who wants to replace Beck, are the ones missing what's plain as day to those who want him to be the Dolphins QB.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  13. Vampire

    Vampire Season Ticket Holder

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    I agree 100%. Henne starting is interesting but him starting doesn't seem to be in the best interests of this franchise unless he plays lights out from the first day of the first mini-camp. Funny how Josh is totally lost in all this. Well, his history speaks for itself.
     
  14. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    I like the way you think and truly hope that John gets a real chance to win the job because I feel that he will do just that. :hi5:
     
  15. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    DGB, I happen to agree with you, but lets think about your statement that a team must have 2 talented QBs...

    Think of Indy, NE, Seahawks, Atlanta (when Vick was their man, what has Schaub done on his own), GB...what has Rodgers done yet ?, Philly, Giants, Ravens, Minny, the list goes on...they have one good or great QB and what else ?? Do you really think Matt Cassel can carry the Pats (we can only hope to see that), Jim Sorgi the Colts ?? Jared Lorenzen in NY ??

    While having a solid backup is crucial, none of those teams have had to rely on their backups to get them thru the season... That can and has changed (for GB) and we'll see about their 'quality' of backup...but the fact is that to succeed you have to have a QB that is special and lasts thru the season reasonably healthy...Your backup has to be able to get you thru a few plays here and there, but do you really think Philly was the same when McNabb was out ?? Even tho Garcia had a nice run, they missed the playoffs..

    I'm all for drafting for replacements. That has been sorely missed in this franchise since JJ left. That's why we're in the poor condition we're in right now. Wanny, Saban and Cam all left the pillars of the D to sit on their own, and they have, but where is JTs replacement ?? Zachs ?? We drafted a few guys THIS year and traded for a guy to replace Zach recently.

    Now perhaps Tunaland will get on with first replacing the talent that is currently missing and then drafting like there is a next season so that we don't have to rely on FAs to fill our needs like in the past...

    Back on topic, they've invested a lot of time on Beck this offseason. He has a head start on Henne or McCown and whether or not he comes thru will be whether or not drafting Henne instead of filling another hole was necessary. The only thing I can say is that taking him when we did rather than with earlier picks showed that they have some confidence in Beck. The chances of him still being there at #57 were rather unlikely, but it worked out for us...
     
  16. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    I wish those that believe drafting Henne at 57 was an indictment on John Beck would think it through.

    For the reason you listed above, if the FO had serious doubts about JB, they should have, and would have jumped on a QB much earlier than the 57th pick.

    I like JB, because of his work ethic and dedication. I also liked the glimpses of hope he gave us in his accuracy. His bumbles and fumbles from snap from center were an anomaly, he had no such problems at BYU.

    I like the Miami Dolphins much more than any one player on the team, so, whomever the best QB for this team is, I'm hoping they will show their skills early on and put the QB problem to rest.
     
  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Sorry, but I disagree. Parcells wouldn't have drafted a QB in the 2nd round if he planned on staying with Beck. Beck will not start this year unless he plain blows away McCown in training camp.
     
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  18. feelthepain

    feelthepain New Member

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    Why wouldn't Parcells draft a QB when we only have two QB's that could start if we needed them to? We needed a QB. Chad Henne was a great addition at a great value. It has nothing to do with Beck, it's the fact that we had a chance to draft a very good player and we drafted him. I think some fans are really trying to read to much into the Chad Henne pick.
     
  19. ryoung8918

    ryoung8918 New Member

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    Henne and McCown have the inside track. Parcells may be a genius and all, but he's known to have an ego the size of Texas. He brought in Henne and McCown, not Beck. If Henne and McCown blow chunks in the preseason and Beck looks great, Beck could end up starting the season at QB. Absent that, he's auditioning for his next job somewhere else.
     
  20. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If he were looking for a third stringer, he would have waited till later in the draft. Henne is intended to be his eventual starter.
     
  21. ryoung8918

    ryoung8918 New Member

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    Which part of his history are you refering to? I admit I don't know a ton about him, but from what I saw, three teams let him go or traded him that all needed QBs. Ariz, Det, Oakland. Arizona had him pre-Leinart, Detroit had him pre-Stanton, and Oakland had him pre-Russell. And in Oakland, he couldn't keep the job from Daunte Culpepper.

    There's always a chance he pulls a Rich Gannon, but I tend to doubt it.
     
  22. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    No apology needed Rick. The beauty of message boarding is, it's just a place to express our opinion. In the grand scheme of things, every opinion expressed counts absolutely zero toward what the F.O. will actually do.

    So, Sorry, but I disagree. :shifty:
     
  23. feelthepain

    feelthepain New Member

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    I think you're missing the point and value of having competition at every position.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, I don't think I am. I think you are missing the significance of drafting a QB in the first two rounds, particularly when you have a QB on the roster that you drafted in the first two rounds LAST YEAR. I think anyone who doesn't grasp the significance of that is letting their emotional attachment to John Beck overpower their reason.
     
  25. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I'm double checking, but I'm pretty sure we're the only team that took a day 1 QB this year that took a day 1 QB last year.

    ****EDIT****

    Yep, we are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  26. Superself

    Superself Season Ticket Holder

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    How significant is that factoid when you look at our record last year and have only one QB remaining??
     
  27. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    Our QB spot, to say the least, is shaky. Of course, Henne was drafted at 57 to supplant whomever the starter might be. That's the purpose of the draft.

    I don't believe there will be a bias toward Henne, just because he was chosen by this new regime.

    The INTENT is to make the Miami Dolphins a much better team through competition at each position. What's at stake here, is wins and loses and extended employment for all concerned in the Dolphins Organization.

    Smart management (which I believe Parcells & company is) know better than to let their egos interfere with making the right choice. Especially, starting off with all new faces in the organization.

    The best man for the job, will be starting the season because they will have EARNED the right through hard work and smarts..
     
  28. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    4 QBs were on this team prior to drafting Henne. It's also significant in that we're the only team to spend two first day draft picks on QBs in back to back drafts this century. That's not competition, that's replacement.

    As a matter of fact, I went all the way back to 1990. In the span of 18 drafts, we are the only team to do what we did with Beck and Henne. The only draft in 18 years (if not farther) that two first day picks were spent on a QB for the same team back to back and we just did it. That significant enough for you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  29. feelthepain

    feelthepain New Member

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    If we were in such dire need to have another QB, since Beck isn't the answer in your opinion and since he isn't the answer we really have no option at the QB position. Thus the importance of getting one is then greater. Why wait till 57 when we could have had the guy at 32? After all QB isn't exactly a position you fool around with, especially if "your guy" is there for the taking and you have his value and importance to your draft, team and future at such a premium. "If" Beck isn't the answer, then you have no QB, if you have no QB, how important does Henne then become? This is key to your argument, that Beck isn't the answer.

    Why risk such a chance to get the next Dolphins starting QB to another team? Why not then trade up from 57 to make sure you get him? At 32, it's not like every team in the league is so stacked at QB that there was 0 chance anyone else would take him before we selected again at 57. The buzz going around was that Henne could go in the 1st round... obviously there were others interested.There's your risk of losing a guy "you cliam" we have to have to replace Beck. Can't be competitive without a QB.

    My guess, the FO felt like if Henne was worth a second round pick at 57, and not before...obviously. Not exactly a "pants on fire" gotta have decision. I think you're the one who doesn't understand value and how to use it to your advantage. If you choose to believe Henne was drafted cause the team has no faith in John Beck that's your choice. But looking at the situation we were in last year and looking at John Becks college career and the fact the Jeff Ireland told everyone in his press conference that the decision to draft Henne had nothing to to with how they felt about Beck and his effort this off season. I hardly believe this selection has anything to do with Becks ability to play at this level. To me, that's just plain simple deduction based on facts.

    I think this is more an opinion from a fan who doesn't like Beck and is looking for any reason in the world to move him out. But that's just my opinion. In the end what we think doesn't matter it's what the players do that will determine who plays where.
     
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  30. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    There are certanly pros and cons to this: Josh McCown is not very accurate and Bill hates guys who throw INTs (see Bill's 11 rules for QBs), John Beck is not Bill's idea of the way a QB should look (not BIG enough), and Chad Henne is an unknown but was picked by Bill for the Miami Dolphins.

    Chad could be good or he could be bad:

    Positives are 1. A 4 year starter from a BCS school 2.The right size 3.A strong arm and 4. A leader.

    Negatives are 1. Not consistent, all over the board in accuracy 2. Slow release 3. Will force throws into coverage (see Bills's rules)

    One other thing that Jeff said when talking about drafting Henne is that he brought the team back 9 times in the 4th to win games and he really liked that. You know the first thing I thought of when I read that? Rick Speilman used the same reasoning and used a 2nd round pick to get Feeley from Philly. Now I'm not saying that Henne is Feeley I just thought is was so odd that it was used as a reason.

    I think the real fight will be between Beck and Henne with Josh as the fall back guy if everyone gets a fair chance. We will just have to wait and see. If it's fair, my money is on John because of his quick release and accuracy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
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  31. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Henne is an unknown?

    [​IMG]
     
  32. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I don't think I am reading too much into it, but I am taking it for what it is.

    Of course we drafted a QB. No way the new FO would consider us set at QB with only Beck and McCown on the roster. That would have been insane.

    Now...since we did draft Henne, I think he has a bit of an advantage over Beck. One, he's played more football over the past four years. Two, he was taken by the current FO. Three, he's younger. If the two play basically even, why not go with the younger guy. Henne will be 23 in going into this season. If he is a quality starter in a year or two, that gives us a good QB for the next decade. If Beck is good, we probably have a QB for five years or so.

    All of this said, Beck will get his chance to outplay Henne. If he does, IMO, he will start.
     
  33. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Unknown by the fact that we don't truly know Bill's QB plans for him. Not unknown from the standpoint that he is a good prospect for a starting QB. The reality is that all of them have been told that they will compete for the starting job and there is only one job with 3 2nd round QBs competing. Do you see anyone of these guys being happy being the 3rd guy? I don't and if they were I wouldn't want them on my team. My guess is that one of the 3 will not be on the team at the start of this season.

    I will go so far as to say if John Beck plays the whole 4th preseason game it will be to showcase him and he will be traded or cut.
     
  34. vinivedivichi

    vinivedivichi New Member

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    I think it's clear that drafting Henne is an indication that the FO has questions about Beck, but who knows to what extent? There's a very good case to be made for drafting quarterbacks until you are sure that have one that is your guy. No matter how much you (or this regime) like Beck, you can't be sure about how he will turn out at this point. It would be bordering on negligent to cross your fingers and hope Beck turns out, even if you reallly think he will. So, I think the smart move is to draft another quarterback if the opportunity presents itself.

    Just a disclaimer - I like Beck's chances to become a starter in this league and I really am not very high on Henne. That said, I don't mind the pick (based on the logic above) if we are going to give both guys a fair shot at becoming our quarterback. Beck undoubtedly has the advantage this year after a year under his belt, but assuming he gets the job he has to capitalize on his opportunities this year.

    I don't think the Henne pick means we are giving up on Beck, and it obviously isn't a ringing endorsement. If we let the best man win, I am ok with this pick.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
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  35. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    To the extent that we're the first team in at least 18 drafts to spend consecutive drafts with first day picks for QBs. That's how confident they are in Beck.
     
  36. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    i agree except i do like henne even though i hate michigan:lol:

    but if the FO felt totally confident in beck they would not have taken henne in the second IMO

    let them duel it out and let the best person win, if beck grabs hold of the job and impresses in the season that would be great but if beck comes out and struggles it is going to be henne under center before the season is out
     
  37. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Ireland specifically talked about the fact that Green Bay could have taken Henne one pick before us and he said they "just held their breath" hoping he wouldn't be their choice. Asked if they considered trading up in front of Green Bay to make sure they got Henne..."No, we stayed put".....Asked if there was any thought to taking Henne at 32, the answer was a flat "No".

    So if crossing your fingers and wishing real hard constitutes wanting to draft Henne as Beck's replacement, I guess Rickwriter is correct.

    But to me the ho-hum attitude says to me that they took him purely for the value of the pick and for more competition at the position, so I would say your argument makes much more sense.
     
  38. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    meh.. you are making to much of that issue emo.. we took a good value qb when we had the chance knowing that bad as he might be, he just might be better than anything coming out next year. How foolish would the new regime be to NOT cover the bases and draft a qb THIS year. Henne has a"chance" of being a decent qb, any qb taken after him will likely not have a "good" chance of being good. This was a smart front office exercising prudent drafting, looking ahead at next year.
     
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  39. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I don't think he is. It's significant.
     
  40. Themole

    Themole Season Ticket Holder

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    Like I said in an earlier post, them picking Henne, is not an indictment on John Beck. JB has 4 games under his belt with two of them being disastrous. I happen to believe surrounding cast had much to do with JB problems. In his first two games he seemed as confident as a rookie could be, then things went down hill fast for him.

    Not picking Henne at 32 or anywhere between 32 & 57 tells me they have some confidence in Beck. You just don't play around with the QB position and wait and see what falls in your lap in the draft 57 picks into the draft unless you have some faith in the QBs you already have on the roster. It's just to important a position.

    The front office hedged their bet, as any competent management would do. From all that we have read, they are very pleased with the effort JB has given this off season. He has been involved in classwork and thrown the ball, by now, over 5K times to correct his mechanics.

    Henne, might come in with guns a blazing and win the job from the get go. Who knows? John Beck, might capitalize on his experience and never have to look back, OR...Josh McKown, might have the switch turn on for him and be the QB for 5 more years. Who knows?

    My point is, picking up Henne, in no way indicates that John Beck, is in trouble with the front office.
     

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