Why christianity?

The former.

My short answer would be both. I was born into a Christian family where worship, reading of scripture, prayer, and acts of charity were the routine of life. As I grew I looked at other faiths but admittedly always with a Christian eye and thus saw it, to some degree, as "us and them".

But as I struggled with discernment over my life, my vocation, and having a relationship with a "higher power", I came to realize that the Christian faith made sense. All other faiths seem to be ladders on which we climb up to God. I knew I could never count on myself, that I would always come up short. I also came to understand that in the person of Jesus Christ, God came down to me. An appreciation of God's love in doing that created my desire to love God in response and thus my Christian faith grew or at least became more pronounced.

That in a nutshell is my story and my answer to your question.

very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion and choose which one they want to follow, or makes the most sense to them.

99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

religion is the oldest most effective way for people to be assembled and told what to do and think. its makes them all fear that they must serve something they cant see in order to insure the quality of their after life.

there is no higher authority that any of them EVER answer to or even receive any evidence of. they all believe it because thats what they have been told since they can remeber, by almost everyone they meet. they see how big religion is and how long it has been around. surely a lie or misconception could not be so vast and far reaching could it?

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

My short answer would be both. I was born into a Christian family where worship, reading of scripture, prayer, and acts of charity were the routine of life. As I grew I looked at other faiths but admittedly always with a Christian eye and thus saw it, to some degree, as "us and them".

But as I struggled with discernment over my life, my vocation, and having a relationship with a "higher power", I came to realize that the Christian faith made sense. All other faiths seem to be ladders on which we climb up to God. I knew I could never count on myself, that I would always come up short. I also came to understand that in the person of Jesus Christ, God came down to me. An appreciation of God's love in doing that created my desire to love God in response and thus my Christian faith grew or at least became more pronounced.

That in a nutshell is my story and my answer to your question.

really? How so?

"eric wrote:

very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion and choose which one they want to follow, or makes the most sense to them.

99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

religion is the oldest most effective way for people to be assembled and told what to do and think. its makes them all fear that they must serve something they cant see in order to insure the quality of their after life.

there is no higher authority that any of them EVER answer to or even receive any evidence of. they all believe it because thats what they have been told since they can remeber, by almost everyone they meet. they see how big religion is and how long it has been around. surely a lie or misconception could not be so vast and far reaching could it?

eric, I agree with what you say, but that's not what I started this thread for.

I wanted to see answers to my question from our christian brothers, not rants by atheists.

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

My short answer would be both. I was born into a Christian family where worship, reading of scripture, prayer, and acts of charity were the routine of life. As I grew I looked at other faiths but admittedly always with a Christian eye and thus saw it, to some degree, as "us and them".

But as I struggled with discernment over my life, my vocation, and having a relationship with a "higher power", I came to realize that the Christian faith made sense. All other faiths seem to be ladders on which we climb up to God. I knew I could never count on myself, that I would always come up short. I also came to understand that in the person of Jesus Christ, God came down to me. An appreciation of God's love in doing that created my desire to love God in response and thus my Christian faith grew or at least became more pronounced.

That in a nutshell is my story and my answer to your question.

Do you believe that Christianity made sense to you later in life because life as you knew it necessitated it, or for some other reason?

All other faiths seem to be ladders on which we climb up to God.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

really? How so?

The five pillars of Islam call upon the believer to perform certain actions in order to attain to God. Judaism calls upon its adherants to obey "Torah". Buddhism speaks of paths unto God. Etc.

Christianity says God comes to us in the person of Jesus Christ. We do nothing to merit that love and attention nor are we even able to.

I can never be "sure" of anything, do I believe enough, am I good enough, faithful enough, etc. Christianity doesn't require that, it tells me that God has selected me. Therefore my life is not an attempt to attain status with God but simply a life of gratitude.

"TrueDolFan wrote:

Do you believe that Christianity made sense to you later in life because life as you knew it necessitated it, or for some other reason?

Christianity has always "made sense" but my understanding has grown. If I understand your question, I think I operate with a few basic presumptions which others may not. First I believe in a god. Second, I believe that being in relationship with that god is at the center of any human beings existence.

In my early life those were assumed without much question. I went on however to ask those questions of myself and of the world as I grew. The answers that came from that assessment are above. Am I getting to your question?

"eric wrote:

very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion and choose which one they want to follow, or makes the most sense to them.

99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

religion is the oldest most effective way for people to be assembled and told what to do and think. its makes them all fear that they must serve something they cant see in order to insure the quality of their after life.

there is no higher authority that any of them EVER answer to or even receive any evidence of. they all believe it because thats what they have been told since they can remeber, by almost everyone they meet. they see how big religion is and how long it has been around. surely a lie or misconception could not be so vast and far reaching could it?

I would ask you to show me the respect I am giving to you. Simply put you know how many Christians? 1,000 maybe 2,000? There are 2 billion adherants currently on earth and perhaps close to that many more throughout history. I find it both arrogant and presumptive of anyone to claim they KNOW what all of those people think or feel. I hold a major office within a denomination of nearly 5 million mostly here in America. Even from that vantage point I would not presume to know the motives and deisres of those many folks.

"TrueDolFan wrote:

eric, I agree with what you say, but that's not what I started this thread for.

I wanted to see answers to my question from our christian brothers, not rants by atheists.

Thank you for that but since you have, in part, revealed your beliefs, may I ask what brings you to ask your questions?

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

The five pillars of Islam call upon the believer to perform certain actions in order to attain to God. Judaism calls upon its adherants to obey "Torah". Buddhism speaks of paths unto God. Etc.

Christianity says God comes to us in the person of Jesus Christ. We do nothing to merit that love and attention nor are we even able to.

I can never be "sure" of anything, do I believe enough, am I good enough, faithful enough, etc. Christianity doesn't require that, it tells me that God has selected me. Therefore my life is not an attempt to attain status with God but simply a life of gratitude.

I understand what you are saying. However from my research of Buddhism, there really isn't a "God". In some sects, I guess being the Buddha is God.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I understand what you are saying. However from my research of Buddhism, there really isn't a "God". In some sects, I guess being the Buddha is God.

I believe buddha's god status is more of a prophet status no?

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

I understand what you are saying. However from my research of Buddhism, there really isn't a "God". In some sects, I guess being the Buddha is God.

"unluckyluciano wrote:

I believe buddha's god status is more of a prophet status no?

Your points are well made. Buddhism does not neatly fit into the categories we in the west most commonly use. If one understands Buddha as a first among later followers to achieve the perfect state of enlightnment then He is a god-like figure at worst. Either way, my point is that Buddhism calls on the adherant to do the attaining and would not recognize western understandings of Grace any better than we understand elightenment.

"unluckyluciano wrote:

I believe buddha's god status is more of a prophet status no?

I think that depends on which "sect" of buddhism you go by.

Buddha is more of a prophet status, however in a lot of them there isn't a status above Buddha.

Buddha is the status given to someone who is enlightened.

The way I understand it, to put it in Christian terms. Jesus becomes the Christ, and the teaches others to become Christ.

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Your points are well made. Buddhism does not neatly fit into the categories we in the west most commonly use. If one understands Buddha as a first among later followers to achieve the perfect state of enlightnment then He is a god-like figure at worst. Either way, my point is that Buddhism calls on the adherant to do the attaining and would not recognize western understandings of Grace any better than we understand elightenment.

What is the Western understandings of Grace?

The only understanding I have is the sound is sweet and it can save a wretch like me.

EDIT:

I guess he could be a god-like figure. He isn't a creator.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

What is the Western understandings of Grace? The only understanding I have is the sound is sweet and it can save a wretch like me.

Grace is an unmerited, unearned gift. In Christian parlance it explains God's love and faithfulness for a huiman community which is by nature sinful.

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

I would ask you to show me the respect I am giving to you. Simply put you know how many Christians? 1,000 maybe 2,000? There are 2 billion adherants currently on earth and perhaps close to that many more throughout history. I find it both arrogant and presumptive of anyone to claim they KNOW what all of those people think or feel. I hold a major office within a denomination of nearly 5 million mostly here in America. Even from that vantage point I would not presume to know the motives and deisres of those many folks.

i did not show any disrespect at all. thats an unwarranted defensive statement.
the number of people who believe in something does not equal any sort of proof.
i did not and dont claim to know what all those people thought and felt.

basically your entire response was an unecessary way for you to take a stand against what i said, while implying that i am "both arrogant and presumtive" for making a claim that i never actually made.

is that how this works? just make up something, cast a negative light on it and distance yourself from it? i feel like a monkey just threw feces at me scampered away into the forest

"eric wrote:

very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion and choose which one they want to follow, or makes the most sense to them.

99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

religion is the oldest most effective way for people to be assembled and told what to do and think. its makes them all fear that they must serve something they cant see in order to insure the quality of their after life.

there is no higher authority that any of them EVER answer to or even receive any evidence of. they all believe it because thats what they have been told since they can remeber, by almost everyone they meet. they see how big religion is and how long it has been around. surely a lie or misconception could not be so vast and far reaching could it?

"eric wrote:

i did not show any disrespect at all. thats an unwarranted defensive statement.
the number of people who believe in something does not equal any sort of proof.
i did not and dont claim to know what all those people thought and felt.

basically your entire response was an unecessary way for you to take a stand against what i said, while implying that i am "both arrogant and presumtive" for making a claim that i never actually made.

is that how this works? just make up something, cast a negative light on it and distance yourself from it? i feel like a monkey just threw feces at me scampered away into the forest

Eric do you really believe you were not being dismissive and disrespectful? First of all you contend

very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion

so appearantly, I can not be a bright person? That is not disrespectful? By the way, I have an IQ, tested secularly, of 138 and appeared on Jeopardy. At least a few folks seem to believe I can think?

99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

But then

i did not and dont claim to know what all those people thought and felt.

You are not claiming to know what everyone believes and how they got there? How am I misreading that?

i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

You don't see that comment as disrespectful????? Your contention is that Christianity specifically and religion in general is nothing but a money making scam! Are you telling me that is not what you mean?

After 26 years of ministry and with a master's degree, I lead a congregation over over 2000. We have a staff of a dozen, and a budget of a half million dollars. I am paid less than $45,000 and given a 95 year old house adjacent to the church to live in. Trust me I am not in to fill the collection plate, at least not for myself.

And to require their be no teaching of religion until someone is an adult and can decide for themselves? That presumes something sinister about my motives and those of the parents of children.

We love God. It is a deep component of our being. The thought we could not share that love with our children is preposterous. When a child asks why something is the way it is, Why is the sky blue?, Why do some people hurt others? Where is Grandma now that she is dead? You would disallow any statement of faith or belief in a family's answer? How is that not disrespectful or dismissive? If you would say the answer should only be scientific then YOU are substituting science for a faith and thus raising human reason to the level of god. If you wish to do that you may, but to require it is in my way of thinking arrogant and presumptive.

As far as taking a stand against what you said, what did you say?

All people of faith are brainwashed idiots whose leaders are in it for the money and should be cut off from all sources of proclamation and education? Did I miss something? Where do you leave room for discussion with that viewpoint?

TruDolfan asked a serious question. For what reason I do not know but I answered him. Who threw the monkey feces? I made a beginning answer and you made what even your fellow disbeliever called an "atheistic rant". How did you promote the discussion of the question of the thread?

Eric,

As a staunch Atheist, i understand your stance about reason and logic and beliefs. I even understand the frustration you often feel, when it comes to getting your thoughts out there. However, in here, we try to be more respectful, simply because its polite and the right thing to do when having mature discussions about a topic as touchy as faith.

Your post was combative and judgmental. If that wasn't your intention, no problem, but I hope you can see how it could be taken that way. The more time you spend in here, you'll see this forum IS NOT really about defending or justifying ones beliefs, its more about sharing your thoughts and asking questions of others.:up:

"Finascious D wrote:

Eric,

As a staunch Atheist, i understand your stance about reason and logic and beliefs. I even understand the frustration you often feel, when it comes to getting your thoughts out there. However, in here, we try to be more respectful, simply because its polite and the right thing to do when having mature discussions about a topic as touchy as faith.

Your post was combative and judgmental. If that wasn't your intention, no problem, but I hope you can see how it could be taken that way. The more time you spend in here, you'll see this forum IS NOT really about defending or justifying ones beliefs, its more about sharing your thoughts and asking questions of others.:up:

Thank you Fin D, you said it better than I did. And for the record, you are one of the folks in this forum who are sterling representatives of what you stand for. You have my thanks and respect.

I never came to an "a-ha" moment about God. He was just always there. I felt His presence, opened myself up to Him and allowed Him to work in me.

I think I might have "checked-out" other religions but I was always drawn to Christianity. It just called to me.

Eric, we've had great discussions here with others who are not Christian or even religious. We try not to judge each other here, just understand where each other is coming from.

One more thing and I believe this applies to any religion: faith is the key. Knowledge can only take you so far. After a while, faith is what will fill in the gap.

GB

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Thank you Fin D, you said it better than I did. And for the record, you are one of the folks in this forum who are sterling representatives of what you stand for. You have my thanks and respect.

Outside of my wife wanting to marry me, this is probably the greatest compliment, I've ever received. Seriously, to be respected from someone on "the opposite side of the coin", is really just, well, wow. I hope you know the sentiment couldn't be more mutual. Thank you so much.

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Thank you for that but since you have, in part, revealed your beliefs, may I ask what brings you to ask your questions?

Of course you may ask.

I had a talk about religion and faith with a very intelligent (and very Christian) co-worker of mine yesterday morning. We both had been raised in families that placed high importance on Christianity. But we had taken different paths, his faith has only become stronger over the years, whereas mine has disappeared completely.

It was great to have an open, respectful discussion with somebody about religion/spirituality without getting into all the judgements that sometimes come up when people disagree fundamentally.

It was such an interesting discussion, I thought I'd bring it here and get even more perspectives.

"TrueDolFan wrote:

Of course you may ask.

I had a talk about religion and faith with a very intelligent (and very Christian) co-worker of mine yesterday morning. We both had been raised in families that placed high importance on Christianity. But we had taken different paths, his faith has only become stronger over the years, whereas mine has disappeared completely.

It was great to have an open, respectful discussion with somebody about religion/spirituality without getting into all the judgements that sometimes come up when people disagree fundamentally.

It was such an interesting discussion, I thought I'd bring it here and get even more perspectives.

Interesting indeed. I wonder what causes that phenomenon? Both raised Christian and both took different paths. As a Christian, the easy answer to say is that one was open to the message, received it, and accepted it.
But that would be near sighted and wrong. There has to be more to the issue than that.

TD, if I may ask, do you still search for religion or are you content where you are?

"The Rev wrote:

Interesting indeed. I wonder what causes that phenomenon? Both raised Christian and both took different paths. As a Christian, the easy answer to say is that one was open to the message, received it, and accepted it.
But that would be near sighted and wrong. There has to be more to the issue than that.

TD, if I may ask, do you still search for religion or are you content where you are?

For me, this scenario screams out about the sheer individuality of the human experience. While human behaviors can be viewed similar to cooking recipes, the depth of our perceptions cannot. This is just further evidence that all faiths (or non-faiths:wink2:) should have more of an open door policy than a knock on your door policy.

I have never understood staunch atheism. It always seemed to me the same as being religious. Even Richard Dawkins is agnostic. He has a scale from 1 to 6 where 1 believes in god and 6 believes in no god. He is a 5, where he puts it, he doesn't know if there is a god or not, however there probably isn't.

That made sense to me.