Why are we not allowed to spank our children anymore when they deserve it?...

"Two Tacos wrote:

I get the spirit of your reply, but honestly, I hope I'm never someone who would get any sort of catharsis from beating another human. Excepting sparring, rolling, etc...

I'd pay to beat the hell out of that guy that tortured and murdered that family in Washington, DC, including a 10 year old boy. I'd like to torture him, too.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/22/us/washington-mansion-fire-slayings/

"Paul 13 wrote:

Btw. Curious those that have voted. Who of those has children actually?

I'm willing to bet $$$ to doughnuts that most of the ones that voted "Yes" have children and the ones that voted "No" do not.

"CashInFist wrote:

I'm willing to bet $$$ to doughnuts that most of the ones that voted "Yes" have children and the ones that voted "No" do not.

EDIT: I know that Two Tacos and lmeister3 do not. I'm not sure about Clark Kent, and I pray to God that Fin D doesn't. LOL :lol:

"Boik14 wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. I dont get any kicks out of it but some people do need a good asskicking. May as well take a negative and make it in to something positive.

Youre talking about violence against children. Spanking a child as a form of discipline is not a violent reaction in my opinion. It tells a child that what they did is not ok in that particular circumstance. It shouldnt be used every time. It should be used when a child has been told numerous times to stop doing or saying a particular thing and after all other options have been exhausted. It should not be done in anger or as a threat, but in my opinion it should be done to elicit a certain response or emotion from the child. You want the child to be sorry about whatever they did or said and you want to stop the reaction. Of course the reaction will be negative...you just disciplined a child to stop doing something they thought was funny or cool.

That's the scary thing, child abuse and spanking cause the some developmental problems. Reduced grey matter in the brain, anxiety, depression, aggression, inability to focus, lowered IQ, etc... Obviously to varying degrees, as a child who is chronically abused is likely to experience far more problems to worse degrees.

The disconnect here is intent. Parents who spank their children may believe it's for the greater good. A teaching moment. But the reality is, striking a child for any reason has long term negative consequences. Whether or not a parent means well is irrelevant, they're causing harm. I think this is a good analogy... I'll let you guys be the judge.

6 hours of sleep per night vs. 8/9 hours of sleep per night.

You can function with 6 hours of sleep. You can do all the same activities with 6 hours hours sleep as you could with 8. Yet, with 8 hours of sleep, you can do everything better. Activities of any kind that you never notice or pay attention to, are easier, quicker, better. You're your superior self with 8/9 hours of sleep.

Children who experience corporal punishment become the limited version of themselves rather than the superior version. There's 25+ years of scientific research on the subject and there's no evidence of any kind that would even suggest that spanking is in any way, shape, or form, helpful to the developmental process of a child. It's always negative.

"CashInFist wrote:

I'm willing to bet $$$ to doughnuts that most of the ones that voted "Yes" have children and the ones that voted "No" do not.

For the record, I don't have children (yet). When I do eventually, I won't hit/spank them because it does nothing but **** them up. It's counter productive.

I think Fin D's post is pretty much perfect. I don't have anything to add to it, so it can speak for itself. I would point out, I think you're suggesting, based on the bet you're willing to make, that those without kids don't understand the frustration of them misbehaving, for which Fin D brought up a basic truth of spanking, as I see it.

it is based on either frustration or lack of knowing what else to do or lack of will power to try anything else

"Clark Kent wrote:

That's the scary thing, child abuse and spanking cause the some developmental problems. Reduced grey matter in the brain, anxiety, depression, aggression, inability to focus, lowered IQ, etc... Obviously to varying degrees, as a child who is chronically abused is likely to experience far more problems to worse degrees.

The disconnect here is intent. Parents who spank their children may believe it's for the greater good. A teaching moment. But the reality is, striking a child for any reason has long term negative consequences. Whether or not a parent means well is irrelevant, they're causing harm. I think this is a good analogy... I'll let you guys be the judge.

6 hours of sleep per night vs. 8/9 hours of sleep per night.

You can function with 6 hours of sleep. You can do all the same activities with 6 hours hours sleep as you could with 8. Yet, with 8 hours of sleep, you can do everything better. Activities of any kind that you never notice or pay attention to, are easier, quicker, better. You're your superior self with 8/9 hours of sleep.

Children who experience corporal punishment become the limited version of themselves rather than the superior version. There's 25+ years of scientific research on the subject and there's no evidence of any kind that would even suggest that spanking is in any way, shape, or form, helpful to the developmental process of a child. It's always negative.

This is a bunch of horsecrap. There have been Presidents (probably about all of them), World leaders, famous surgeons and scientists, lawyers, etc etc, that were spanked as a child and grew up just fine. It wasn't until the PC Police stepped in because they didn't like it and made it a crime. This is one of the many problems with the young generation. They are a bunch of spoiled brats.

"Clark Kent wrote:

For the record, I don't have children (yet). When I do eventually, I won't hit/spank them because it does nothing but **** them up. It's counter productive.

I think Fin D's post is pretty much perfect. I don't have anything to add to it, so it can speak for itself. I would point out, I think you're suggesting, based on the bet you're willing to make, that those without kids don't understand the frustration of them misbehaving, for which Fin D brought up a basic truth of spanking, as I see it.

JUUUUUSSSST wait....LOL

That's all I'm going to say about that. :lol:

"Bpk wrote:

Complex, context-based question based on many layers reduced to simple Yes-No.

If I am forced to evaluate this as a total generalization that will be applied to ALL situations I HAVE to say NO it's not okay, because of the evils that will occur under it's umbrella.

If we can go case-by-case and really examine the definitions of 'beat' and 'deserve' to get clarity, then maybe we can have a deeper discussion.

For now, just spank your girlfriend when she doesn't bring you your Busch-Lite in the camo-can after a hard day of watching Funny Car Racing.

That's funny you said that. We do spank each other frequently, and HARD. And we LIKE it. Dead serious, spices things up sometimes. LOL

I was taught in the mid-Sixties by Irish Christian Brothers at a Catholic high school in the Northeast. The brothers believed in public corporal punishment as one of the tools of education. Hold out your palm, get a sharp smack with a rubber strap per wrong answer on an easy ten-question Latin quiz. It stung, but there was no injury. It only hurt for a minute or so, and it was deemed far better than two hours of detention, standing in line in silence.
We learned to take care to study in order to avoid the fleeting pain and, more importantly, the public humiliation. If anyone was traumatized, he hid it well. It was something we all had in common as a class. No one wanted Brother Nick to stop at one's desk when he strolled down the aisles wielding Bawana (yes, he named the strap). I doubt that it made me any better of a person, but it certainly taught me about consequences.
Things are different in school today, I imagine; and maybe it's because I'm old and times have changed, but it seems to me that the product of education today is, on the average (I'm not talking about the top students) far inferior than it was fifty or so years ago. You have to wonder how much discipline has to do with that, which is what makes corporal punishment a debatable point to me.

Spanking does NO HARM...

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/08/24_spank.html

http://www.nospank.net/cnn.htm

http://www.drmaglio.com/articles/parenting/punish_parents.php

Punish Parents for not Spanking

Domenick J. Maglio, Ph.D. Neo-Traditionalist

Many parents are not spanking their young children for blatant misbehavior. It could be fear of public disapproval, fear of the police or just pure laziness. The lack of spanking either indicates parents do not think they have a right to spank or they cannot change behaviors that endanger the child and others.

Instead of encouraging parents to use moderate spanking, we have "bleeding heart" representatives who want to make it a crime to spank a child in the state of Massachusetts. This ban will fail as is has in California and other states. Over 90% of Americans have been spanked for doing something wrong during their early life and are fully functioning people.

Elizabeth Owens, from the Institute of Human Development at the University of California, at Berkley, has shown in her 12-year study that there are no negative effects on cognitive, social and behavioral skills from moderate spanking. Obviously, severe corporal punishment is an abusive, criminal act that is a different issue than moderate spanking.

Outlawing any spanking because some parents could possibly harm their child also means we should make it illegal for parents to kiss their children as that might lead to incest. Moderate spanking not only does not harm a child but helps the child eliminate dangerous inappropriate behavior from his life. It is an immediate, non-verbal way to inform a young child to stop and listen when words would be too slow and abstract to prevent a tragedy.

A slap on a toddler's hand or behind is like a picture that is worth a thousand words. This message is direct to the pain censors of the brain: "whatever you are doing, stop." This lowers the probability that a particular behavior like spitting will not occur again. It is the most effective way of actually inhibiting inappropriate behavior not just stopping it temporarily.

Today's children are like "Curious George," they do whatever strikes their fancy. They push whatever button is within their reach, open drawers and doors and grab the remote. This is considered precocious and cute unless you want to teach that child to respect the property of others and decrease potential accidents.

This issue of a child doing whatever she feels like or whatever she wants to grows more dangerous as the child physically matures. The child's new ability to walk opens up many options to her. Bolting through a door into traffic, shifting a car into drive, diving into an unguarded pool are only three examples of life and death situations that can be avoided by training children to ask for parental approval before doing anything new. During the formative years establishing the child's need to seek approval from his parents before trying anything out of the ordinary gives him the parameters in which to safely function. Permissiveness does not provide this.

Spanking a child when he does an outrageous act gives him second thoughts before trying it again. The parent should tell the child the reasons for the inappropriateness of his actions and help him generalize why adults frown upon certain behaviors. Even with getting a child's undivided attention, lecturing a young child without giving appropriate consequences is a futile act.

Misinformed people have shaped the modern culture message that all spanking is abusive. They are undermining the power of parents. It is directly harming the ability of children to just "do the right thing" rather than debate and override the parent's guidance.

Modern children are wasting valuable time attempting to "get over" authority instead of observing, listening and imitating them. They are being psychologically labeled and drugged into submission at ages as early as 2 years old. We as a society are writing these children off before they have had the opportunity to live.

It is criminal for parents to shirk their responsibility of disciplining their children under the guise of fear of looking bad in front of others or being investigated by law enforcement. Eliminating spanking from the repertoire of child rearing makes it difficult for any parent to emphatically teach right from wrong.

It takes courage to be good in anything. Parents doing the right thing for their children's long-term health are developing healthy citizens for the future of our nation. Parents not living up to their duties as disciplinarians should be held accountable by being ostracized by others.

The Biblical saying "spare the rod and spoil the child" implies that parents have the responsibility to discipline their children. They should not be punished for appropriately spanking but for not spanking because spanking does teach the child not to do particular behaviors.

Dr. Maglio is the author of Invasion Within and Essential Parenting. He is a psychotherapist and the owner/director of Wider Horizons School.

"Clark Kent wrote:

How can you definitively say yes, spanking should be allowed, when in the very next sentence you question the effectiveness and morality of spanking?

It isn't a complex question. Physical force against a child has long term negative consequences in regards to their development. There's no credible research in the world that would suggest otherwise. Hitting kids is bad for them, regardless of whether the intention was designed to teach.

You should read my above post.

ONLY a 12 year study by Elizabeth Owens, from the Institute of Human Development at the University of California, at Berkley. But hey, what does she know??

"CashInFist wrote:

This is a bunch of horsecrap. There have been Presidents (probably about all of them), World leaders, famous surgeons and scientists, lawyers, etc etc, that were spanked as a child and grew up just fine. It wasn't until the PC Police stepped in because they didn't like it and made it a crime. This is one of the many problems with the young generation. They are a bunch of spoiled brats.

that's a weak statement. I can tell you that my mother used to beat the crap out of me when she spanked my brother and I (he got the worst of it). It effects our relatiionship with our wives (girlfriends) on a daily basis. I go out of my way to raise my child differently. I've never hit either child beyond the moderate smack on the butt (which I haven't done in years). My oldest is arguably the best behaved kid in the school - BECAUSE I speak to her almost every day on the right way to behave and interact with others.

The difference between a good parent and a mediocre parent? The difference is between being proactive and reactionary. The former being the obvious better parent.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

that's a weak statement. I can tell you that my mother used to beat the crap out of me when she spanked my brother and I (he got the worst of it). It effects our relatiionship with our wives (girlfriends) on a daily basis. I go out of my way to raise my child differently. I've never hit either child beyond the moderate smack on the butt (which I haven't done in years). My oldest is arguably the best behaved kid in the school - BECAUSE I speak to her almost every day on the right way to behave and interact with others.

The difference between a good parent and a mediocre parent? The difference is between being proactive and reactionary. The former being the obvious better parent.

That's all I ever advocated. You just proved my point. LOL

"CashInFist wrote:

That's all I ever advocated. You just proved my point. LOL

EDIT: And did you read about the 12 year study I posted earlier, just a few posts above? And that's from a LIBERAL University...

I did an intense 21 year study.
Spanking is okay.
I raised two sons.
They turned out great.

I have rarely been in the position to spank any of my children.

They know it is an option, though. It's my "nuclear deterrent."

By spanking, I mean a simple swat on the rear. That has been all it took the last time I had to use the "option."

Haven't had to for years, and don't think I'll ever have to again, because my kids are pretty ****ing awesome. ;)

It's in the playbook, though.

Been spanking my monkey for decades, does that count?

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4

"Colorado Dolfan wrote:

I have rarely been in the position to spank any of my children.

They know it is an option, though. It's my "nuclear deterrent."

By spanking, I mean a simple swat on the rear. That has been all it took the last time I had to use the "option."

Haven't had to for years, and don't think I'll ever have to again, because my kids are pretty ****ing awesome. ;)

It's in the playbook, though.

Same here. I've only spanked my son a handful of times his whole life, now all I have to do is raise my voice and give him the look and he gets right in line immediately.

"lmeister3 wrote:

Been spanking my monkey for decades, does that count?

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4

C'mon bro. You're better than that. Go get laid. LOL

"CashInFist wrote:

C'mon bro. You're better than that. Go get laid. LOL

No he's not better than that. That poor monkey.

I have two girls. The oldest will be 4 in a few months, the youngest is 16 months. I have never, and will never spank/hit my children. Not once.

As with all kids, they will sometimes act up or out, and do things that they should not. I really, really hate raising my voice, but I do on occasion. The most I will ever do is pick my older daughter up and carry her away from the situation and put her in a chair for time out.

The important thing to remember is that kids don't think the same way that adults do, and as a parent, you always need to try and put yourself into their shoes. It can be hard, but parenting is hard. Spanking/hitting/beating is the coward's way out. A real man never hurts women or children.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I have two girls. The oldest will be 4 in a few months, the youngest is 16 months. I have never, and will never spank/hit my children. Not once.

As with all kids, they will sometimes act up or out, and do things that they should not. I really, really hate raising my voice, but I do on occasion. The most I will ever do is pick my older daughter up and carry her away from the situation and put her in a chair for time out.

The important thing to remember is that kids don't think the same way that adults do, and as a parent, you always need to try and put yourself into their shoes. It can be hard, but parenting is hard. Spanking/hitting/beating is the coward's way out. A real man never hurts women or children.

I never layed a hand on my son either while he was growing up. It was never in the playbook and he grew into a fine young man.
It's better to be respected then feared as a parent imo.

"CashInFist wrote:

EDIT: And did you read about the 12 year study I posted earlier, just a few posts above? And that's from a LIBERAL University...

finding a rare counterpoint from a respected school doesn't prove your point, it just proves that the professor is trying to make a name for herself by making a bold statement. and to your previous post, advocating the occasional smack on the butt is not the same as spanking - which I thought was the original point of your OP.

"Ohio Fanatic wrote:

finding a rare counterpoint from a respected school doesn't prove your point, it just proves that the professor is trying to make a name for herself by making a bold statement. and to your previous post, advocating the occasional smack on the butt is not the same as spanking - which I thought was the original point of your OP.

Rare counterpoint? LOL

It was a 12 year study. And I provided 3 links to prove my point. You have a counter?

"CashInFist wrote:

Rare counterpoint? LOL

It was a 12 year study. And I provided 3 links to prove my point. You have a counter?

yes, it's called common sense.