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Who would be acceptable, if we didn't pick a QB at #5?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Surfs Up 99, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I am just curious if anyone would be ok with taking another player at #5 rather than a QB. My first thought would be to take Simmons because he is an athletic freak and he is versatile. However, if we did take him, I am not sure about how we should use him. Do you think we should continue to use him as a jack-of-all-trades type or play him in one position like safety? Is there another player you would prefer? One of the LT, CB, or DT perhaps? If we were to go with a guy who was strictly an LB, I would prefer Queen, but that might be a stretch at #5 and I am not sure he would be there at #18. Thoughts?
     
  2. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    It just depends on how the whole draft shakes out.

    So if Flores and company have a plan for bringing in talent at the QB position then we have to respect them for that.

    If Tua is there at 5 we are taking him... I do not think anyone questions that. If he is gone before we pick..

    Okudah/Simmons/ Brown

    Any of these guys are game changers and worth building around. So if we miss out on Tua... One of these players will instantly improve the football team and make everyone else on the field a little more effective.

    Here is a mock scenario.... where tua goes second overall...(Trade)

    5. Simmons
    18. Kinlaw
    26. McKinney

    This makes the Dolphins defense elite. We might have to get lucky for Kinlaw to be there at 18... McKinney is a standout at safety... Kinlaw is a run stuffing monster inside that will command double teams... (freeing up other players) Simmons is a once in a generation linebacker in terms of talent... The size to play on the defensive line if needed... Can outrun most wide receivers in the NFL.... Played some safety in college He is explosive... Gets to the QB.... There is nothing he cannot do on a football field. ( I mean the guy can probably kick 60 yard field goals. )

    Second round.

    CushenBerry
    Prince Wanegho

    This gives us the top center and an extremely talented tackle to build the offensive line.

    Third round.

    Jalen Hurts
    Devin Duvarney

    We need to bring in QB talent to develop... This is a no brainer. Trade up into the back of the third round to grab a wide receiver... We have so many late picks...Trade two sevenths and a 5th to move up. Duvarney can be groomed to replace Gator and Wilson for the future.

    Fourth round

    AJ Dillon

    Another no Brainer... We need a RB... Dillon is a 250 monster that runs very well for his size.

    Fifth Round.

    Anthony Gordon
    Dane Jackson

    Jackson has big long term potential... Late switch from offense to defense in College... Flashed major ball skills as a corner... Needs work... Needs polish... Needs good coaching. Flores turned Needham and Rowe into productive players... Jackson would be a special teams player initially and get the chance to work his way into the starting line up... 6 ft tall good speed. Gordon is another QB who has a big arm and a natural pocket passer.... Someone to compete with Hurts and Rosen for the future.

    I know a lot of people would hate this draft... A lot of people will hate any draft where the Dolphins do not land Tua...

    As long as there is a plan for the QB position I trust Flores and his coaches. So if it is Hurts and or Gordon... I am on board.


    I just wanted to show that with a solid draft and the work they have done in free agency they could make the Dolphins the team to beat in the AFC starting this year.... Winning 10 games minimum and making the playoffs with Fitzmagic. ( while other Qb's develop. )
     
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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Unlike most of you, I don't want to take a QB at #5. My first choice is to trade down, ideally with one of the teams that has two first rounders.

    If we were to stay at 5 and not take a QB, then assuming that Chase Young isn't a possibility, I like Isiah Simmons or Tristan Wirfs.
     
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think Simmons is one of the top players in the draft, so if he's there and we're not going Herbert or Tua, I think he's clearly the pick.

    If Odukah is there instead of Simmons, then things get difficult...is Howard going to be on our roster for the 2020 season? If so, it might be a time to trade down and let someone grab him/Tua/Herbert.

    Derrick Brown would be worth looking at for LB, as would Wills or Wirfs at OT. Again though, you could probably have these names at 7-10 since a run on QB's would be coming...makes more sense to try to trade back.

    Who else? Lamb or Juedy at WR? It's tempting but I don't think we go that route since it's not a clear need. I think with #5 you have to take a QB, Simmons, Odukah or trade back...those are the only 4 options that make sense.

    Note- I just did a three round mock on the Draft Machine that didn't have a QB taken in the top 20 (besides us, of course) and it had Tua going to the Pats at 23. Not at all realistic but here's what I got-

    • 5 Joe Burrow, QB LSU

    • 18 Grant Delpit, S LSU

    • 26 Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia

    • 39 Jonathan Taylor, RB Wisconsin

    • 56 Julian Okwara, EDGE Notre Dame

    • 70 Matt Hennessy, IOL Temple
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  5. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Assuming we get our QB with our next or last pick in the first round?

    Tristan Wirfs. It's not a sexy pick, I know, but it fills a need.
     
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  6. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think there is no way we don't take a QB with either the fifth pick or trading up.
     
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  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Simmons, Okudah, Wirfs assuming Young doesn’t fall to us
     
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  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Chase Young if he drops, otherwise whichever LT is your fav. Some may say Simmons, but we have greater needs at more valuable/important slots. Young and LT are really the only options.
     
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  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Imagine a secondary of Jones, Howard, Okudah, McCain and a rookie safety, with Rowe as a specialty player for the dime and other coverages. From the bottom of the league to the top really quickly.
     
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  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Two of the top NFL contracts and a top 5 pick all at CB? No thanks, gotta be more efficient, especially since it's Flores' bread and butter. Find players.
     
  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Its going to take a long time before I trust anyone on the Fins to just "find players".
     
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  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    We've actually been amazing at finding players who overachieve from random rounds and places.

    It's been the important decisions and early picks we have screwed up.
     
  13. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It doesn't matter if we have trust, it's just a thing we have to do. If we don't, then it means we look to the next GM/Coach. Sucks, but that's the reality of a salary cap.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'll always keep looking for the team to hire an established coach and GM. Then, I'll have a lot more confidence. Otherwise, we'll see how I feel about the current batch in four or five years if they're still around.
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Jedrick Willis, Andrew Thomas, Simmons or trade down.
     
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  16. fastball83

    fastball83 Active Member

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    Hebert
    I want a QB at 5
    after that Thomas or Whirf at OT
    and swift or Dobbins
     
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  17. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    As obvious as it sounds then it would depend on how it all plays out. If Tua goes at 2 then I'd be tempted to still move to 3 and get Chase Young.

    That being said if nobody is willing to move up or down then it depends on who is there. Look at what we need and then work out how big the drop off is for the players likely to be there at 18. We need OT. How big is the drop off between the players who are there at 5 and 18? What about LB? QB? Whichever position of need has the biggest drop-off, grab that.

    EDIT:

    Just ran 2 separate mock drafts. In the first, the top 5 went Burrow/Tua/Okudah/Wills
    and the second went
    Burrow/Young/Tua/Simmons

    Despite there only being 4 teams in front of us, a lot of things are out of our hands.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  18. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Chase Young could definitely change my mind, but I just don't see us NOT taking a QB with that 5th pick. It's all but a lock that either Herbert or Tua will be the guy in my opinion. If somehow we decided not to go QB with the fifth pick because....Oh...Chase Young is there....Then I would fully expect us to turn our attention towards a different QB available with one of our later picks (Love, Hurts).
    To answer the question...Yes...it's totally acceptable if it's because Chase Young was still available, but I don't think he will be, and I do think we will take Tua or Herbert on draft day.
     
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  19. FphinFantastic

    FphinFantastic New Member

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    I look at the 49ers being effective with any QB with that defense. Defense wins championships. I may be in the minority but I don’t want a qb. Remember when the patriots were building their dynasty they always had at least 2 first round picks. They would always trade down and grab high picks for the next draft and were effective with the picks they did make. Usually defense and online... would not be surprised if we only picked twice in first round and both were defense. Would love to have another 3 first rounders in hand for 2021 to do what we want with. Never know when that LT or Urhlacher or Marino presents themselves. They are not in this draft at least not Marino....
     
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  20. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    In that case #5 Young trade up to #6 and grab Herbert! Now that could be a first round to remember.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  21. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    That defense got ripped by Mahomes. It's a lot harder to maintain a defense over a decade's time than an elite QB if/when you get one. SF already showing the strain, shipping Buckner off to the Colts. It will be interesting to see if they have actual staying power, or are going the route of the Bears.
     
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  22. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I think that people are forgetting that SF was leading 20-10 with less than seven minutes left in the game. They choked and didn't finish, but their plan (both long term and that game) was sound. They should have won the game and the title.
     
  23. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your point at the same time it’s the chicken vs the egg. Rodgers and Brees have only won one super bowl. You’re right that it’s easier to maintain one player who keeps you close but you still need a complete team to win it all.
     
  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    They lost the game. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

    Ironically, their best shot at actually winning that game would have been a better QB. Either way, we are getting off track I think.

    I think if we love Love, it wouldn't be a stunner to pick an OT at 5 and then maneuver to secure Love in the mid-round area. Positionally for me, a top 5 pick is about QB, protecting QB or sacking the QB. Guys like Okudah and Simmons are good players and I like both, but neither hits the mark for me. Simmons positional versatility is intriguing, but you have to be wary. Easy for guys to go from versatile to positionless.
     
  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yeah I mean at the end of the day though, only 1 team can win each year. And the F'n Pats have stolen way more than their fair share.

    I look at it as which QB can elevate a struggling team and will them into the playoffs. Which QBs can consistently reach and advance in the playoffs? Which guys aren't one hit wonders (I swear to God Im not trying to dig THill here people!) - that's the difference to me. Bad QB play is a team killer, second only to a bad coach imo. A great QB gives you a shot. As a big baseball fan, the mantra is to essentially just reach the postseason because it can be such a crapshoot once you get in, you just give yourself a chance. A QB is the NFL trump card in giving your team a chance. So many other things have to go nearly perfectly for a team lacking good QB play, it's just so hard to maintain.
     
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  26. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm a big, big believer in subjectively looking at everything that realistically could have happened, rather than just seeing things as black and white, bottom line. If Mahomes and the Chiefs had run rampant the whole game, done what they felt like, and won 45-20 with the game never in doubt, then that would be a very different story. But that is absolutely not what happened. Its important to me because I love what the 49ers are doing, and that's the model that i wish that the Dolphins would follow.
     
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  27. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Simmons is such a beast because he absolutely can go get the QB... He has wide receiver speed... Elite wide receiver speed.

    I am not saying that teams should forget about drafting QB's But do not dismiss Simmons as a pass rusher... He is very accomplished in this role. He can get to the QB from the Front... as a linebacker or End.. Even as a safety... He did all of these things well at Clemson.
     
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  28. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I'm not nearly as into versitility as a priority like many regarding our defense, but Simmons is a dude who just has it all. Three level linebacker who you can build around for a generation.
     
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  29. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    It's not that I don't want a QB, it's that I don't want to trade the farm for a game manager. We already have that in Fitzpatrick (whom I think is getting better with age). If all we can manage is a game manager, then I say let the QB situation come to us (maybe a small trade would be ok), otherwise lets load this team with talent while we wait.

    Note: Some very good discussion going on. Props to you all!
     
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  30. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I don't think that any of the QBs in this class are safe enough to bet the farm on. If there was a Peyton Manning to be had at #1, then I'd be on board with doing what it takes to trade up, but there just isn't.
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I think Simmons might be the best overall player in the draft...and I do think Chase Young is amazing as well. If either of them drop to #5 then it's going to be almost impossible not to take them.
     
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  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I'd prefer they show sustainability before saying they are a model to be following. They might be, but then again, we see teams rise up on a great defense all the time and fade just as quickly. Bears and Jacksonville immediately come to mind.

    Now, Jimmy G is better than Mitchell and Bortles, so SF has a better shot to avoid that fate, but also again if they had a better QB who could have nailed a few key throws, they probably would have won. But they didn't. A good coach/QB combo that couldn't be contained for an entire game eventually broke out, put down the accelerator and the Niners didn't have the offense to respond. And now they lost one of their best and most important players (Buckner) as a cap casualty in order to retain Armstead. I will be interested to see if they use the selection they got for Buckner on a direct replacement (Kinlaw), defensive back, wide receiver, OT or trade out.
     
  33. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    Okay

    Let's get one thing Straight...

    As much as I like Fitzmagic... He is tough, smart, and a great leader... He is old... And he is not exactly Peyton Manning. So... At best you can rely on Fitz for 2 more years. That is pushing it.

    We either need to draft a QB in this draft or the next one.... No two ways about it.

    Maybe Rosen is the real deal... I hope he is... But you do not put all of the eggs in one unproven basket. Even if it is Just Hurts and Anthony Gordon... We need to bring in more talent at the QB position. Fitz is what 38 years old?

    I think that the Dolphins could well win 10 games this season with a great draft... Fitz gets us to the playoffs.. Maybe we shock the world and win a playoff game. That is the best case scenario... There cannot be any serious long term plans that involve Fitzmagic.
     
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  34. FphinFantastic

    FphinFantastic New Member

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    Maybe I’m a little sick but I kinda want to see what fitz can do when he can just manage the game and make plays not have to make “The” play. If we have a lights out D then he gets that opportunity. What does Rosen do with a line can he evolve in a consistent system? Man I would love to load up on d and o-line this year....maybe add a few picks for next year. Let Flores get some work out of the young guys and see what happens. No matter what, this will be a memorable draft.....
     
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  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Haven't we seen what Fitz can do? There is a reason the dude is 38 and played for like half the league without being able to stick as a starter for longer than a season or two.

    If we get another half a season of good play from him, it would be a blessing.
     
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  36. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    There is no question hat Fitz is good enough to lead this team to the playoffs. Fitz has been over his career inconsistent. He will play at a high level and you think you have a franchise QB and then bad Fitz will show up and the interceptions start happening. When he is playing well he looks like one of the better QB's in football.

    Last season he was the Dolphins MVP. If we keep working on the Line...Draft a running back and end up having a top 10 defense... The job of leading this team to wins is going to be MUCH EASIER for Fitzmagic. Which is why I said I see a chance for this team to win 10 games this year with a strong draft and make the playoffs with Fitzmagic as the Quarterback.
     
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  37. flounder97

    flounder97 Active Member

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    Fitz had zero Fs to give at this point in his career. He knows he’s on borrowed time and is just happy to be here. He played loose and had fun last season. He just needs to do the same this one. Enjoy the ride!
     
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  38. Etrius24

    Etrius24 Well-Known Member

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    I agree... On Fitz... Overall he is a smart man with a career of experience... He is in that rare brief window of his career where he has seen it all and still has a little gas left in the tank... On a good team you can win playoff games with a QB like that.

    Before we get ahead of ourselves with those daydreams... Let's Grab a couple more bodies for the O line... a Safety, a Running back and maybe a pass rusher.

    It is going to be a fun season.
     
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  39. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Memorial Day 2020

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    Ryan F will be there for one more year IMHO. As really need to draft for the future.
     
  40. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I do think Burrow is legitimately an A- prospect. I don't think we can actually get up to get him though.

    All things considered, I have Herbert graded as a hair better than Tua. I don't really think we need to package a ton up to go get either one. I would be willing to offer a reasonable amount to get the guy I want but nothing excessive.
     

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