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Who do you take at #6?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by mlb1399, Mar 27, 2021.

If you're the GM, who are you taking?

  1. A) Pitts

    66.1%
  2. B) Chase

    16.9%
  3. C) Smith

    1.7%
  4. D) Waddle

    3.4%
  5. E) Parsons

    3.4%
  6. F) Other

    8.5%
  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I feel the opposite *shrug*

    It seemed like we had a fair number of drives wasted because he threw deep on first down and we punted. Doing that in the first quarter especially just kills me.
     
  2. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Generally speaking you make somewhat fair point on the surface, why not have 2 great pass catching TEs?

    -Because, as others have already noted. We will lose him for nothing next year anyway(If we draft Pitts.)

    After the draft then, so long as Grier feels he can acquire an additional 2nd in 21' or 22'] Imo it's a good trade (taking everything into consideration)

    Sure as Rick said, having 2 high quality pass catching TE's would be great.. but is it feasible at this time? I doubt it.

    We'd have to outbid every other team who will already be carrying a significant price tag on the open market. Gesicki is a talent, so I don't blame you Rick for getting a little hot under the collar. But this franchise is playing chess right now. If they go back to checkers within the next 2 seasons, well I suppose the title under my av will continue to reign true (for this guys lifetime)
     
  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    IMHO, getting rid of talented players is the chief way to keep rebuilding forever.
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is only if he is unsigned before the legal tampering period. Until then we have a lot of time to convince him to take the contract we want to offer.

    Without having to pay $30 to $40 million for a quarterback, I think it is feasable. Also they could franchise him. There are options on the table. Also if Miami isn't playing the big free agency game next season (if they draft well this season they shouldn't have to) then they will get a 3rd if he is signed to a big contract.

    I think he is worth keeping around and seeing if there is a way to keep him.
     
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  5. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    No offense bud but you're writing with a little delusion floating above your words.

    In what world is a professional football player not going to look for a big pay day. I said in another thread I was asked not to go back to, so I'll say i'll paraphrase it here. Why are we talking about football like none of us know how the game/league works. I got a pretty good handle on it, I know all of you here are huge fans so you should be too. Being a realist kicks the snot out of being an Optimist/Homer or a Pessimist, for obvious reasons.

    TL;DR Gesicki is UFA next year. I love the guy, but we can't afford to resign him. His current pricetag going into this final year is 1.652 mil.

    But yeah, it's totally realistic he will resign for that when other teams will be looking to make him a top 10 paid TE in all likelihood. In other words you are talking about some sort of pipe dream, where we're spending 25 mil on 2 TEs, and that's a low estimate.
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Where do you get 25 million on two tight ends?
     
  7. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I may be wrong, but I don't think Gesicki will cost nearly as much as you are indicating.
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yeah that's pretty high. The #6 pick is about a 7 million cap hit it seems, and only the top 5 TEs make more than 10 million per year.

    That said, I wouldn't pay top dollar for Gieseki unless he really explodes into a Kelce or Kittle level threat.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would as long as quarterback's cap can be low.
     
  10. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    He looks to be one of the best TE in free agency next year. You think he'll get substantially less than the guys who were in the same position the last two years?
     
  11. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    You guys don't seem to realize that skill positions esp TE are of high value because there are so few "very good" pass-catching TE's.

    Yes you all are right I could be wrong, but I believe Gesicki will command top 10 TE money pretty easily.

    Based on what I've seen most of the time with Fitzpatrick, GSick looked like a damned pro-bowler. With Tua... yea not so much, so often.

    Point being, if I can see that (you guys should be able to see that) but other teams scouts most assuredly will. If I am wrong I will be happy to eat crow. But as of right now, with a proven solid QB, Gesicki is a 1000 yd receiver. Hell he gave us 703 yrds and 6 TDs with a journeyman QB and a rookie QB who would target Gesicki much less.

    Based on my personal analysis Gesicki stands to command anywhere from 7-12M/Yr on the open market. As we also have to consider the fact that typically UFA targets are overpaid for as they are being bid on essentially.

    So while 25mil into TEs may be a slight exaggeration, it's not that far off once we add in the rookie contract Pitts will get, which (correct me if I'm wrong I will emphasize I am no salary cap/contract expert) Pitts rookie contract will be 6.25m/4years. If we are to match what the average of what I believe Gesicki will be worth on t he open market you're looking at 16.25+incentives+signing bonus. You're looking at a base of 16 million on TEs. If I'm wrong, tell me where.

    Regardless, you're talking about a huge investment into this one position. So I'm not sure why I'd be treated like some nutter to assume the Dolphins will not take this direction if they do select Pitts... assuming he's even still on the board.

    As to match what will likely be an overbid on Gesicki next season and keep Pitts, I think we'd be investing too much into 2 PASS catching TEs. Which is why my objective opinion is if we select Pitts, that is likely more in line with what the Dolphins are thinking, especially Grier. I can count on him to add pick(s) for Gesicki, not some buffoonish attempt to let his contract expire and have an open bid on Gesicki (silly talk)

    It will be amusing if we don't pick Pitts and this discussion was had for nought. Draft day can't come soon enough.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think people realize that, just don't agree with your conclusion that it is silly talk.
     
  13. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Maybe not 'silly talk,' but probably the more likely of the two hypothesis if Pitts becomes a Fin. But since as none of us can read the minds of Grier and co. from here, we're on wait and see mode.

    I just thought the reaction to my proposal was odd of trading Gesicki (as if I'm some hater; Couldn't be further from truth)

    Fans on here continue to get to EMO about the players. Lets start worrying about winning a superbowl guys, or even being a contender.

    Don't worry you can make a 5000 post Gesicki memorial thread when it's done. sheesh.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is irrational. Just because someone disagrees with you they are not getting EMO.

    I believe that keeping Gesicki is worrying about winning a Superbowl. I am of the mind that getting rid of your best players is a bad way to build a contender.

    Also, that if Tua is the quarterback I believe/hope he will be, that giving him more weapons during his cheap time of the next three years, I believe that it is worth keeping Gesicki.
     
  15. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Now, that we have to deal with Allen and Wilson in our division, OLB/Edge rusher has to be considered.
     
  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Hell no.
     
  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Im of the firm belief that you don't start worrying about what other teams are doing until you've built a good team yourself, and the Fins aren't there yet.
     
  18. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    This. You can't keep turning players loose when their rookie contracts run out. You have to keep some of them. I would love a 2 TE attack ala Patriots with Gronk and Hernandez, that was a tough matchup trying to handle those two.
     
  19. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Stop thinking of Pitts as a traditional TE; he is athletic enough to line up anywhere. If the FO see him as the best “receiver “ in the draft, then it’s a simple matter to draft him. They can split him out with Gesicki on the line (or vice versa), and that would present matchup nightmares for the opposing defense.

    If they feel Chase/Smith is a better fit, and/or better than Pitts, then pick one of them.
     
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  20. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    The latest talk is that contracts will be lower than they have been over the next few seasons. So that should lesson the impact on what you are talking about. There was alot of talk about this when we were looking at signing RB Aaron Jones from the Packers.

    Whether or not two receiving TE's are "worth it" will entirely be based on how we use them and the type of production they have. If both of them are on the field and productive, I could care less if they are WR's, TE, etc. The bottom line to me is both players alone (Gesicki and Pitts) create mismatches that are extremely difficult to defend. Both players together is going to absolutely control what we see each week in terms of defensive personnel. How? Teams will be forced to defend our 2 TE sets with smaller DB focus formations and schemes because they will get absolutely toasted by Pitts and Gesicki trying to defend us in Big sets and schemes , not to mention our big physical WR's (Parker and Williams) and even our Speedy WR's (Fuller and Grant).

    This is a HUGE addition to our scheme DOLFANS. Add Chase or Smith and it's true we get a great addition to WR, and those guys are great players we'd be lucky to have. They have great skills as WR's, but how that improves us is much more limited than adding Pitts.

    Add Pitts and he will keep smaller defensive packages on the field and Pitts, Gesicki, Parker, and Williams will have no problem blocking smaller defensive packages. Our passing game will thrive because they are so gifted as receivers and create coverage nightmares and mismatches and our Rushing game will thrive because:
    A- Teams will defend us pass first
    B- Our Offensive Line will push smaller defensive packages with more DB's and less LB's and or DL
    C- Our Big WR's and two TE's will easily handle blocking multiple DB sets they will have to be in to keep us out of the endzone
    D- Our Coaches will see similar schemes week after week that will make us better as coaches. It'll be easier to anticipate what we will see in games. Using Multiple looks with 2 TE's like Gesicki and Pitts will be a nightmare lining them up wide, in the slot, on the same side, on opposite sides, both in Tight, etc will force teams to defend our rushing attack with personnel that usually primarily defend the pass. We can force them to do things that they don't see every week.
    As a coach I can tell you this makes calling plays so much easier, and add in our RPO focus and improving OL and I think the value of having both Gesicki and Pitts in the same offense could be the greatest innovation we've had in a long, long time. There is also a whole lot of value in how good Pitts is lining up wide. He is a force everywhere he lines up. He'll make Gesicki better too as Gesicki will benefit from lesser coverages focusing on him.
     
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  21. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    A few thoughts on this.

    First, the top money for a TE is MUCH less than the top money for a WR. If Fuller stays healthy and has a good season, he'll be looking for $20 million/yr, while the top TE money would be $14 million/yr or a bit less. For those worried about paying Gesicki, I wonder how you'll react when Tua is asking for $40 million/yr. That is when the cap will get very tight for Miami.

    Since Tua is on his rookie contract, and Pitts would be also, paying Gesicki is not really a burden.

    Second, and I think DOLPHANMIKE covered it well, Miami could run a 12 personnel package for most games. Force teams to defend an offensive package they don't see for the majority of most games. Do they match speed with speed, or play size to contain the run game?

    If Tua can't put up points with those kind of weapons around him, then we face the cold hard truth that they took the wrong QB at #5.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yet towards the end of the season each year, somehow he's our WR1. That's a big factor alone...he stays healthy where our other receivers can't.
     
  23. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    We can't just keep letting our good players walk sometimes we must over pay.The good news is the salary cap is expected to jump about 40 mil for 2022
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean if we had tight ends like when the Pats had Gronk and Hernandez...

    That would be filthy.
     
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  25. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I knew this would start at some point. I would love to have Pitts on the team and would be totally cool with drafting him, BUT not if that means trading Gesicki.
    ...and that is what Grier would probably do. That would infuriate me. The beauty would be having two dominate receiving TEs. Gesicki is one of my favorite players on the team. He is everything I always said he would be if he is used correctly, unlike the way Adam Bug Eyed Gase used him. I completely agree with DOLFANMIKE that it would be innovative. We are apparently rolling with Tua and we know that Tua is more of a short passing game kind of QB, so imagine what, at times, having two big, dominate receivers like that to throw to would do for him. ALSO, these days, how fast some of these big TEs run? Pssh. It's better than having a WR. Keep a fast receiver on the field to go deep and then those two? Forget about it. It would take a good, innovative OC to figure out how to correctly use them. I don't know if we have one like that or not yet. It may just be a fun thought, but it could be very cool. Tua would agree.
     
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  26. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Yes we can that's how you sustain a contending football team in this era of pro football. You have to rotate your personnel fairly regularly thanks to FA, and you have to get the best value you can and fill the holes with good picks. E.G. Are we trading up at the TE position for Gesicki? A: Most likely. Therefore does an extra 2nd rounder to lose a player we may lose anyway make sense? yes. We're not losing here... if anything we're breaking even. Either way we upgrade TE (most likely) and add a 2nd rounder on a player who's contract will expire in a year. That's good football sense.

    As much as ya'll would like to believe it the Patriots didn't maintain their dynasty through cheating. I absolutely believe they cheated multiple times and were caught red handed. But there were two big factors.. Right QB (good scouting) and the Patriots every couple of years would rotate out good players, and we fins fans sometimes would think they would start to fall apart at times, I'm sure Buffalo and Jest fans did too.. but it never happened... Why? Rotating Good players out, for more good players in. Yes of course Tom Brady was a huuge part of it. But it didn't hurt that Mr. Lady Brady ALWAYS had talent around him in NE. AND he personally picked TB because he KNEW they had talent, and made a fool of Belicheat doing so. Probably the only time I've respected Brady.. but I digress.. I'm going off topic.

    A trade for a high pick of a good player who has the potential to be a great player who's contract is expiring in a year is not a bad trade in any universe for us. Also... it doesn't have to be a PICK. Never rule out a straight up player trade. If there's a team out there who has "extra" in a position we need to fill. Call us up if you need a TE. If the Dolphins put the word out they're looking to deal Gesicki we'll have offers in no time.. players... picks.. who knows what we'll get offered. But if we don't get a fair deal we walk away. But I'd be happy to fill a position of need right now if a team needs a TE and we need what they may be offering...

    There are too many scenario's like I said, wait and see. You guys may want to keep Gesicki and let his contract expire... and bid on him openly... but I doubt that's the direction the Dolphins would be going. You never know though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  27. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Btw if you don't believe me go look at some of the Patriots championship rosters. They change pretty regularly, but there are always good players on those teams, but the same players slowly get rotated out through good trades. The Patriots always had Brady yes I know, but the rest of the team was always good but over the years the names of the good players become 'other names.'

    It doesn't matter how much we hate them. I hate the Patriots and as much as I want to see them in the basement of the AFCE, I want to see the Fins at the top more. So the logical thing is to is create a system where we are regularly rotating out good players and rotating in good players. The example has been set.. use the enemies example and take over the AFCE before they take it back.. and they will if we're not careful.
     
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  28. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yeah, no it's not. It's how you become perpetually mediocre.
     
  29. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    I strongly agree that when a player is entering the final year of his contract, you need to decide if you're going to be willing to pay market value to extend him right then. If you aren't, then its far better to try and trade him before he enters that final season than it is to risk things and let him walk away after that year for nothing. The Dolphins have failed to do this multiple times over the years, and each time it comes back to bite them.
     
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  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You can't use the Patriots as an example BECAUSE they had Brady. Having Brady covered a multitude of sins on their offense.
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, they also had a pretty solid offensive line for that entire stretch as well. Brady + Quick Release + Good Protection = very good offense with plug-and-play WR rotation.

    Most of their receivers would struggle to be WR4's on other teams (Edelman, Hogan, etc.). And that's not knocking those guys, but the crisp route-running was all that really mattered for Brady.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think Edelman could be a starter on most NFL teams. He was great at route running and getting open against zones.
     
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  33. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    You trade him on day 2
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Patriots championship rosters would allow the players to leave via free agency and then get a bunch of compensitory picks. They would use the players as much as they can and then let them go.

    Which is one of the reasons I think Miami should keep Gesicki this season.
     
  35. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I can't agree with you.If we take Pitts this team would be much better with a 2 headed monster at TE than getting a hit or miss 2nd rounder.
    And all the success the Pats had was because Brady played at a discount for years because his wife is loaded and not because Belichick was some cap genius!
     
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  36. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So if he leaves in FA won't we get a high comp pick? Like 3rd round? To trade him for a 2 when you're most likely going to get a 3 wouldn't be wise.
     
  37. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team DeVante Club Member

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    Yeah, I'd certainly wait until we've made the pick at six and selected Pitts. That's clearly step one in all of this.

    However, if we do that, I'd explore trying to trade Gesicki and #18 as part of a package to try and move up and draft Chase or Waddle, should they fall a little bit. Failing that, then I'd try and get a second rounder our of him, or potentially try and package him with #50 to move up further in the 2nd. Or maybe package him with #81 and try to turn that one into a second round pick.

    If all of that fails, trade him for a 2022 2nd, if there's a taker.
     
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  38. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division Club Member

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    Hey Dupe, it's Kud from FH, idk if you remember me, I remember you. But I've been on Finfan forums since 2004. If there's one thing I'm sure of it's that Dolfans as a collective get pretty darn emo whenever any sort of player trade suggested. Even if the trade made 1000% sense, you would have significant number of detractors. So there ya go on that. :crapstrom: We'll have to agree to disagree on just about everything in this thread my friend.

    As for: "To Keep or not to keep." Well, I'm no stranger to pro-longed back and forth debates that inevitably go no where cause 2 or more people are either to stubborn to change opinions or truly believe they are correct. Maybe if draft day wasn't so close I'd put my old hat on. But I'm not going to debate what the Dolphins might do in 3 weeks. I gave my 2 cents. I qualified my position (as best I could) why that was the prudent course of action.

    But yes over the years, I've learned not to beat my head into the wall to try and convince evvvveryone else. At the end of the day. I don't need to be right. I don't care if I happen to be wrong. I just want the team to do what I've been waiting about a half a lifetime for now.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I am not saying people wouldn't disagree. I am just saying there is no reason to call people names for disagreeing.

    Edit: I tend to find that most Dolphin fans are "Grass is greener on the other side." That they tend to find every little fault of their own players and want to trade them as soon as they get a good player because they are not perfect.
     
  40. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I want Jamarr Chase... i think a few years from now we are going to talk about him like we do Larry Fitzgerald and Julio
     

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