I've been mulling over the most important factor in our draft this year: What is our strategy heading into The Draft? Here's some of the ways we could go: 1. We go offense, surprisingly so, a Wr and a Te early, the Wr replaces Wilford and pushes Ginn, the Te pressures Dmart, then some lesser Cb prospects and try to sift out a NT later in the draft 2. NT/DE, OLB, CB,Te our defense was porous last season, we must reload and find a bit more speed and talent in both pass rushing and coverages, meaning Roth is seated, Jones and Thomas are not in the plans either. 3. OLB, CB, OLB, G/T, The youngsters on the Dline naturally improve freeing up picks for OLB and CB, Soliai comes through as our future NT. Our front office is expert at throwing up smokescreens, so what do us fans think they will do? It is my opinion that we may be happier with our Lb corps then we might think we would be, the only real "open" position is Holiday's old one, that means Roth stays at SOLB and we draft the "best" OLB/DE to take Holiday's old job or Merling grabs the role. If Merling, we take NT or Cb, against type for Tuna granted, but those are both "needs", Cb moreso, but they can be had later at #44. What of the DE/OLB's? That depends solely on what the regime thinks of Matt Roth and Phil Merling, if they are happy with those two and see continued improvement then we take our future NT at #25 or a Cb.
Good post Padre. That's a tough one to try and call!!! I like options 1 and 2. There are probably a few different strategies that would have long term effectiveness. One guarantee I'd bet my life on is that we will try to draft an impact player on offense. IMO that player is James Casey who we will have to take at 2B, so then I'd work backwards and forwards around that pick. They could also feel that we are a few players away from really having an offense that is a "strength". We have the QB, the line, the RB's, 1 TE, and a quality core of #3 WRs. What's missing to take us over the top is a premier go to WR whom Henne can grow old with and a playmaking TE. If this is the case, I could see us going Nicks 1st, then DB who falls in 2A, Casey 2B, Dorell Scott 3, OLB & MLB in 4-6... DB/FS in 5-6. Oline depth in 6-7. Personally, I don't see us drafting Oline earlier than 5 b/c "you live by the sword, die by the sword". We have to assume our line will be healthy, and when it is...it should be dominant. The 2nd route I could see us taking is boosting our pass rush from the DLine position in 1, looking for a situational pass rusher and MLB to compete with Akin in mid/late rounds.... then complementing the pass rush strategy with a corner in 2a. Offensive impact at 2b with Casey....Dline in 3 like Dorell Scott, and maybe a raw WR/KR threat in 5-6 like Mike Wallace to replace Ginn down the line. The 3rd is Miami is in love with Barwin or Johnson at OLB and take them if they fall, then go CB in 2A, Casey 2b, DLine 3, MLB in 4or 5. Thoughts? Changes?
I liked opton 3. Maybe, like Roth, we don't know what they think of Fasano or DMart though, I like the Casey pick but we may go for a pure blocking Te like Mclain from UNC in the fourth or 5th round. Disagree, last season was a lesson on Oline depth, we could take a G/T earlier then anyone thinks to join the Smiley/Thomas derby. If we can find a lineman who can rush the passer as well, that is sort of the issue, more so then SOLB. It wouldn't surprise me to see us take Cb at #25 unless a player like Hood or Johnson is there, especially Johnson, 6'4 and 266, he can easily add 20 pds, or add a bit more muscle to hold the point of attack. 1. Nicks, Scott, J Williams, Carey or a different Te. 2. Hood, Sintim, Casey, Carey IMO, that is the "consensus" view among Phinfans. IMO we may take a stab at Derry Beckwith, but I doubt we go ILB any earlier then the 4th round. We literally could go in any direction.
I look for the best player at 3 positions with our 1st pick... Hybrid linebacker, inside linebacker that can play outside, nose tackle. {we just need more size and strength for the defense} With our 2nd pick, i go best corner. no question in my mind. With 2b, i go James Casey. {this cat needs to be a dolphin} with 3, i go best player on the board for overall defense and offensive line. {may not be able to pass on one of those good guards in a deep class} with the rest of my picks, i go best player on the board for every position except runningback and receiver. {unless were gonna go with a receiver at #1, i dont see the need to add a lower round draft pick to compete with our young guys.}
DJ, I can agree with all that Since the 1st round positions you mentioned might not be there in the manner we need them, we might have to expand that list to Hood and Nicks. If it came down to English, Sintim, or Hood....I actually feel we'd get more overall QB pressure as a Defense by drafting Hood-maybe not from Hood directly, but from the chaos he can create that everyone else can take advantage of. I'd also take Nicks over English or Sintim if Atlanta grabs Hood. I'd also take Peria Jerry at DE over English and Sintim. The only WR I'd take later on would be Mike Wallace who doubles as a top return man and has the height, size, and speed to eventually upgrade Ginn. Posted via Mobile Device
If we don't go Nicks 1st, IMO it's imperative to draft Casey to add some extra physicalness and playmaking ability to what our current pass catchers are lacking. We have to have a gifted athletic body to use over the middle and deep middle. Casey will help take our offense to a new level. Posted via Mobile Device
According to Ireland, our strategy is to get players that fit our system. That really says alot. I don't think we'll pick the best available player, we'll pick a player that fits our need and our system. This way, we'll be able to plug them in right away.
True...BPA doesn't always mean best player for your teams needs. That's why I'd shorten this list to Barwin, Michael Johnson, Nicks, Ziggy, Peria, and Butler. The Xfactor in all this is McDaniels. He was slightly undersized at DT, but he could be reborn at 3-4 DE. If FO is optimistic about him, then we can scratch Ziggy and Peria from that list. Posted via Mobile Device
That's a very good point and if you think about it, a guy like Clint Sintim should be considered a heavy favorite at twenty-five. I think Sintim is the most likely guy there. If there's one linebacker that you can plug in right away, its him. What you have to wonder though, is just how comfortable are they with Wake and Roth at the SOLB spots. Wake will likely take over as a weak side rusher for Joey Porter if he pans out and then you are left with Roth, a guy who doesn't provide a great pass rush but is a decent rusher and an excellent player against the run. There will be an OLB selected in this years draft, the question is whose it going to be and when is he going to be selected? Paul Kruger of Utah whose been mentioned a lot lately is likely to be a early second rounder and he makes a lot of sense here, especially at #44. He's a good player against the run since he has a good upper body strength to hold up the block and force the ball carrier back to the interior and then he's a good pass rusher. He has a nice mix of pass rush moves such as a bulrush, speed rush and inside spin move. His inside spin is very quick and effective from what I've seen. He also covers a lot of ground in a straight-line quickly and when asked to drop back in coverage, he's fluid because he's spent a good amount of time in a two-point stance at Utah. They run a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3 and he's been effective in their system. He's even lined up as a defensive end in their 3-4, something he may be asked to do here. If they can get a linebacker at forty-four that fits their system - Kruger? Sintim? - then they may very well pass up on one at number twenty-five to select a cornerback or wide receiver. I've personally been a fan of Sean Smith, another Utah product, at twenty five. He's a very good cornerback whose got good hands, can off blockers and turn back into the run play to make a stop and then he's very fluid despite his abnormal frame for a DB. He's 6'3 1/2 and can run. I'd like to see him get a bit better covering double-moves but that's something that can be worked on and he hasn't played the position too long. He's got versatility as well, possibly playing free safety here. There's a lot of options and like Conuficus's latest mock shows, two Utah Ute's is very possible.
I just found out that Darius Butler also plays on offense. the video i just watched said they like to get him about 10 plays on offense every game. To me, this guys draft stock just rised! We need a fast CB with good hands. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6znwwOBvWI"]YouTube - CB Darius Butler Highlights Connecticut 2008[/ame]
Alen, I agree with your 2nd part about not adressing OLB till after the first with a guy who fits our needs. In all honesty, Roth is good enough against the run that we should only be looking to replace the weaker part of his game- pass rush and coverage. From this perspective, our list of potential candidates and the rounds we draft them completely change IMO. We can fine tune who we need to a very narrow skill set thus getting more production from the LOLB position when you combine Roth/Rookie than you would from a 1st round rookie alone. If we go CB in the first, then the draft is almost set up so that we have to go OLB at 2A. If this is the case, then Sintim would be a great pickup! Posted via Mobile Device
Well Alen, that is sort of what I'm questioning a bit here, why is the assumption that "we will take an outside linebacker"? Especially a SOLB? They do not provide much pass rush to speak of, Vrabel's best season was 12 sacks, typically he had as many Roth did, 5 or so, Carl Banks had around the same numbers as well, 5 sacks, typically about 80 tackles. Strategically speaking, using a high pick on a SOLB will mean Roth is outta Miami for a unknown quanity of a high draft choice, RDE is typically were the pressure comes from in Parcell's version of the 3-4, even then 10 sacks is a high number. That would mean that there would be no other young player to fill in for JP if his knees bother him, except for Wake or Anderson or someone we take a bit later in the draft though. Would it make more sense to take DE/NT type with Fergie getting up in age and Soliai an complete unknown? To me that sounds doubtful, NT is the key to the defense, I have trouble seeing us going into the season with questionable depth there. That's why maybe Hood, Smith, Williams (Jaison) or Kruger depending on who is there at #56 may make more sense, especially if they feel either Kruger or Williams can play inside long term as a hedge against both Crowder and Porter's health issues.
That's what we will be doing for the most part IMO. However, if you can get a guy that can both drop and rush the passer, then why not take him? Kill two birds with one stone. I think it was CK who said that Roth has a year left on his deal and if you can find a replacement for him in this draft then you should take him. If that guy can both cover and set the edge well then you should strongly consider him, regardless of what round your in and in my opinion, the two guys that I've mentioned earlier fit that criteria.
Thanks for the vid, RNI. There's a chance that Butler is the only one left on the board when we pick. If he is, I wouldn't be disappointed in the least bit. Posted via Mobile Device
I think it was clear that last year, outside of Joey Porter, we had pass rush issues. When Porter was double-teamed, Roth was not able to take advantage of it and Charlie Anderson didn't do much either. Roth is exceptional at setting the edge but you want a guy who can get after the Quarterback. Five sacks isn't going to cut it IMO, regardless of what others like Vrabel and Banks did. Like I said earlier, it really depends on where they think they can land their guy. If they think they would be better off taking a CB or WR at number one and then a OLB at 2A, they may do that. It only makes sense if the guy that fits that position is there at twenty-five and I'm not sure there is a nose tackle worthy at twenty-five. I personally don't see one. I think you'll see Jason Williams there at fifty-six but I'm not so sure about the others. I think Kruger could go earlier than forty-four or maybe even his slide stops there to us. Hood should go earlier because he's a good penetrating tackle and then Sean Smith I'm assuming you mean should be gone by forty-four because he's a big cornerback that can do it all. Paul Kruger on the inside? Inside linebacker? I don't think he's a fit there. Jason Williams of Western Illinois absolutely is, though I'd like to see him bulk up his upper body so he can take on blockers better because right now, I see him taking on blockers head on but at times getting turned sideways, therefore not having leverage in his favor and leaving holes for the 'backs to run through. He's got great athleticism though and can get up field and to the sidelines probably quicker than anyone in this draft class.
i think he's good Wild Cat material! p.s. i can't believe you're posting from your mobile device. get a life!! LOL. i was doing the same thing when i was in the hospital with my wife a couple of days ago.
he was a 3-4 OLB at Virginia, so he's probably the most NFL ready as far as position familiarity. Posted via Mobile Device
i'm sorry i got my youtube video's mixed up. i was just watching video's on sintim and kruger. It's kruger that's a DE, but i believe you've been talking about us getting him in the 2nd to play LB. Do you think he will be able to make that transition?
hahaha. Thanks Joey! it's an iPhone...that's different. LOL. It's like a mini lap top that types worse. Hope all is well health wise. Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, I do think he can make the transition because he's played in space quite a bit at Utah. He changes directions very well and turn & run if asked to. He's fluid overall.
I like the philosophy of killing 2 birds with one stone, but you're really not yet b/c the one bird has yet to prove it can play/stuff the run/set the edge at the next level. LOL. As Bo Jackson would say "Nnnever look a ggift horse in the mmouth!" Especially while you have more depleted needs to fill. Besides, a mid-late round pass rusher and Roth in rotation will not cost more than a 1st round 5yr contract rook....and they'll stay fresher throughout the game and mentally want to make a bigger impact when they are in. That said, if Sintim and Kruger are there in 2a, then I wouldn't mind. I also agree with Padre about Hood. He can rotate at DE in 1st/2nd/short yardage, and then slide over to nose on passing downs for extra pressure up the middle. IMO, this would be at least a big an impact as trying to upgrade Roth's pass rush deficiencies. Posted via Mobile Device
Speaking of nose tackle, someone that hasn't been brought up in a while but I think will be considered at twenty-five if they look at NT is LSU's Tyson Jackson. He can play NT. He's absolutely got the strength to do it and he occupies multiple blockers very well. He does a good job of keeping his feet moving and has a good motor to go with it.
with Cushing and Mathews dropping, I'd think Tyson would be gone by SD. I don't see how they don't replace Igor with the top 3-4 DE in the draft. But if he's still on the board at 25, I'd be happy drafting him for the role we just discussed. IMO we need to get bigger and stronger on our front 3. I said it in another post, but a combo of either Hood or Tyson at LDE/Mount Cody NT/Dorell Scott RDE.... while rotating in Merling on passing downs and sliding Scott over to NT would dominate the LOS! I'm already planning on next year. LOL Posted via Mobile Device
I feel the same way about Tyson Jackson in reference to how high he could go. He's a guy that I would take in the first round if I need a 3-4 defensive end but others dont' feel the same way. I think we could very well see San Diego go with a running back. LT isn't getting any younger and I believe Sproles got the franchise tag.
Its also very possible that his activity at UCONN may have something to do with Cody Brown or Julius Williams.
Yes I do, Murphy is one of those 3rd/4th round Wr who can make an impact as a rookie and because he's not in the Bey/Maclin/Iqlesias derby he would more then likely fall down to us. The De on JP's side should have feasted in that situation Alen, that is part of the idea behind "what is our strategy" because "we" point to Roth as the problem and historically he performed as well as a SOLB should have, the problem was no DE stepped up and applied consistent pressure. So strategically speaking, do we plan on Merling and Langford becoming better pass rushing De's or do we draft someone to do that job? The more I consider it, I can see Wake winning Matt Roth's job, but if JP is injured Wake moves to WOLB and Roth steps into his old job, Roth becomes a valuable and proven back up in that situation. And Michael Johnson's value rises for us ( or it might) simply because he fits the "can play up or down" role and offers pass rushing skills. My only question is, and so far no one has brought this up, but Ireland/Sparano put stock in "core strength" dead lifts and what have you, I've never seen Johnson's core strength numbers, but I "think" Merling's were good last year.
Jeff said that our draft board is stacked horizontally rather than vertically. The positions are spread across the top row. Each position (column) is stocked with players and a grade next to them. For example: Quarterback Running Back Wide Receiver Tight End M.Ryan (95) D. McFadden (92) D. Jackson (88) M. Bennett (79) J. Flacco (93) R. Mendenhall (83) D. Thomas (84) D. Keller (77) C. Henne (90) F. Jones (81) M. Kelly (83) M. Rucker (75) That’s how they look at the board on draft day, except with every position listed. My interpretation: they aren’t a strict BPA team. They value some positions more than others (we knew that) and draft accordingly. http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=20813
Interesting. I personally don't like him, inconsistent player. I can't see them going defensive end in this draft so I'd assume they think Langford and Merling can do the job, which isn't far-fetched. Wake only wins Roth's job if he can set the edge as well, which I'm not sure he can do. Wake I think is here to be the heir to Porter, once he declines. He's had bad knees and a bad back IIRC in training camp and I'm not sure how much he has left. I certainly don't expect the same type of season this year as last. Roth's contract is up in a year and he may be replaced so if you have Wake on the weak side, you'll need a replacement on the strong side, which is where a linebacker from this years class comes in and that's why I look at Sintim and Kruger - two guys who can do the job - as possible draft choices.
Maybe, if the sign JT I'd say there is a good possibility they would as they need Cb help. Strategically speaking though, the poor 40 times at the Combine will be a boon to our needs, top Cb like Jenkins and Davis are likely to fall as well. OT, but boy did James Laurentitis and Malcolm Jenkins take it in the shorts for staying that extra year..last preDraft they were viewed as top 10-top 15 picks, now both may slide into the late first/mid second round.
Definitely agree here. I listened to Mike Mayock yesterday and he said he asked teams about Malcolm Jenkins and where he will play at the next level. He said an unspecified team told him that they had Jenkins at the top of the draft board at free safety last year. And I know we've discussed Jenkins as a FS at the next level, which is a possibility, but I wonder if Vontae Davis is a candidate for FS. He blows coverage a lot because he lacks the top end speed and then I see him having issues with keeping up with the receiver behind him. He's a guy who should be attacking the ball.
He has nice size and ran decent routes in the red zone. I can, we need more pass rushing pressure, and our Front Office takes no chances on what they consider key positions. Disagree, Wake played DE in the CFL like Roth played De for us, the difference in Athleticism could not be greater and Roth showed last year that even a mediocre De can play standing up and have success with us, there is no reason why Wake should not be able to as well. And what better proving grounds for Wake then SOLB? He and JP could be quite the duo for us, and if JP goes down, slide Wake over, Roth comes back into the starting lineup and we see what Wake can do this season. And once again, strategically speaking, who would sit if we use a high pick on a OLB? If they go Bobby Carpenter on us, we don't have enough talent to make up for using the #25 on a player who may or may not start quickly for us. Cb's on the other hand, 95% of the time can start their rookie years.
And that is a part of the reason "why" my top 3 Cb's are Sean Smith, Kevin Barnes and D Butler, I disagree about Jenkins being only a FS in the NFL (and that would make him slide waaaayy down) I see a bit of Sam Madison in Jenkin's game, but if he is a FS prospect, few teams are willing to draft a player with a high pick only to train him to play a different position.
Inconsistency bothered me, lol. I don't think they do go with one. You've got McDaniels, Merling, Langford, Starks in a four man rotation. That's plenty, assuming McDaniels sticks, which I do see happening. Athleticism is nice and all but is he strong enough to set the edge? I haven't seen any CFL to determine that. Matt Roth would sit, assuming they go with a guy who can do the job.
Yep, Sean Smith is at the top of my board too. I don't think Jenkins is a FS only at the next level. I think in a zone based coverage, he would fit perfectly. He wouldn't do much transitioning to Safety. I believe he played FS in nickel situations at OSU.
Well, for the sake of argument (and assuming we take the NT/DE/OLB route), which player is most likely to be able play as a Dlineman if they will not see the field as a OLB? C Sintim C Barwin M Johnson C. Brown Jackson P. Kruger
S Smith would also make a great Quasi OLB like Bell or Wilson will be this season, it's odd that we are seeing safeties taking the role that made the "46" without actually running the "46" defense. I suppose it is easier to find athletic Safeties who can tackle, cover and blitz then using a spot on a Will Thomas type of Lb.
