He is pretty avg. in terms of what you look for in big time WR's. He's not a gamebreaker but he is aggressive and RELIABLE. If the ball comes his way he goes up for it, fights for it and if it's possible he'll catch it. Those intangibles aren't as common as many would think in the NFL. The Vikes got a good WR.
Greg Camarillo did not drop a single pass in 2009..not one...he even made a catch on the ground, with the ball between his legs, he just is a reception making machine.
I don't understand the immediate assumption that Sapp was brought in to either replace Will Allen for good or for the first few games because of health. Maybe this FO has the same concerns some of us fans have, especially myself. Concerns with Sean Smith. Many people just assume Sean Smith will be the future at CB for this team. Many have assumed he'll continue to grow into a shut down corner. But no one really knows. He may be another Donald Thomas. All hype at first with little or no progress. As Muck said, our two starting CBs have 25 starts between them. The jury's still out on them. It's nothing but a good thing to have a Vet as an insurance policy. And one that can be effective in the slot. My projected Nickel CB package after the bye week: V. Davis W. Allen B. Sapp Y. Bell C. Clemons
Hey welcome to the boards, glad you are here. Thanks for the intel on Sapp, I think you Vikes fans will be very pleasantly surprised by Greg Camarillo, he rarely EVER drops a ball, if Favre gets it to him in a catchable position, Cammy will catch it. The guy is money on 3rd downs too. Last season Cammy did not drop one single catchable pass, that's something nobody else in the league can claim. I think the trade was good for both teams. Look forward to playing the Vikes next month, should be a good battle, which we will win of course
All the Ted Ginn lovers are out in full force to hate on Cammy now that he's gone. Figures cause he's pretty much the polar opposite of Ginn as far as WRs go.
Wish we could have meshed the 2 together. Think about Ted Ginn speed with Cam's smarts, routes, and hands!!! We would be saying Brandon who??
How many bad trades involving veteran players has Ireland made for us prior to this? It is far too early to declare it a terrible trade. We'll need to see how things play out the next couple of seasons. BTW, Lamar Gordon, not Larry, who was our LB back in the late 70s/early 80s who died while jogging.
That just screams "Welker/Edelmen Cover Guy." Those WRs make their money with YAC. Stick a tackler on them and suddenly they go from 10-15-20 yard grabs to 3-5-7 yard grabs. It also gives us insurance incase Will Allen is really in bad shape, and/or incase Smith or Davis can't turn it up a notch. Not a bad trade for Cam, who in essence was a superfluous WR on this team. He didnt do anything that Hartline and Bess can't cover, and based on the preseason it seems Henne is liking the Bess connection. Toss in uncertainty over Cam's injury, and it makes sense. Was a good trade for both teams, though I am bit surprised to see a relatively weak Minny secondary give up a pretty solid player.
rookie chirs cook and 2nd year asher allen have really impressed in camp and they picked up lito sheppard to go with winfield and griffin. no room for the guy with the impressive showing from cook and allen. i'm not sure if griffin is fully recovered but the minnesota secondary should be vastly improved from last year
Problem with that Adamp, Sheppard was bad in 09 with the Jest, if Sapp couldn't beat him out for a role, what does that say about him? I suspect that Irish got snookered from a Value standpoint, and I also suspect someone has fallen in love with a Marlon Moore or Wallace or Pruitt but they needed space to keep Turner as well..so Irish cut the best deal he could to find a stop gap Db. The other thing that bothers me about this deal is Sapp is so far behind the curve, a Nickel Cb/S/ST guy has a little over 3 weeks to learn all of the defensive playbook and prove he can implement it out on the field. Sapp had best be a Special Teams Daemon.
You need to go back into the archives and pull out some of those posts. My guess is you might find one or two. The rest you seem to make up as you go. Will Allen is way behind? He was injured in late Oct. and there is no proof they traded for a Cb BECAUSE of him. There are quite a few reasons why Sapp might have been brought in and one of them is he is an excellent Special Teams player. Now thru this preseason which unit has sucked the worse? That would be Special Teams just in case you have not been able to watch. I have yet to see you proved correct once, and you know why? Because everytime you try to make a claim like you're right, you stretch the truth to try and make a case. If you keep patting yourself on the back too much, your going to get a bruise.......for nothing!
i guarantee that irish didnt get "snookered" benny sapp is a very good nickel back that can start in a pinch as he did last year quite effectively on a defense that played well enough to go to a super bowl. he will give up the underneath stuff and tackle you instantly when he does. he has a vontae davis approach to the run game and he's good on special teams. his weakness is if you stick him on a top receiver not a number 2 or 3.
What? Greg C runs meticulous routes, and catches everything thrown his way, if does move to the slot he will be very successful.
His routes are OK. He can run a good curl route. He isn't nearly as good as Bess or Welker when it comes to route running. Nor is he as good as finding the open spot in the zone. Especially with Welker. He was always a master of it.
Cam isn't as quick as either of those guys. I also wouldn't necessarily say "better" hands. Cam is more consistent but he doesn't make the great catch as often (the kind that wouldn't be considered a drop if he couldn't get to it). I also think that both Bess and Welker have better instincts for the slot. They do a better job of finding the open spaces. They also do a better job of getting separation. There's a reason that Bess was the slot WR and Cam was behind him. Cam had value b/c he was clutch and b/c he could fill in for either Hartline or Bess, but it was obvious that the team thought both Hartline and Bess were better.
I find it ironic that Viking fans are pissed about trading Sapp for a guy that they know little about... and Miami fans are pissed about trading Camarillo for a guy that they know little about. This is a great trade for both teams and really helps both of us. Sapp is a good nickel corner and VERY physical! That's what Parcells football is! PHYSICAL! Do you guys really want to go into the season with Will Allen who is nursing an injury and Nolan Carroll who we haven't seen beyond a couple preseason games as our nickel corner? We need a known player who can get it done on the field. Sapp may not be what you would look for in a starter, but for a nickel corner... he's very good. Camarillo is a good player, but he was going to be a #4 receiver. We don't run many #4 receiver slots and hello?! We have Brandon Marshall! It's not like we're rolling with Ted Ginn as our #1 receiver here. I think the reason why some Miami fans are upset with the trade is that some have grown attached to Camarillo. Which I understand... I was pretty pissed when we traded Chris Chambers for a few weeks and I am sure we all can relate somehow. I, for one, am excited about this trade. I think Sapp will grow onto you guys, it may take a few games... but he will IMO.
Perusing Minn fora, I haven't seen this at all. They're not cheering Sapp's departure, but they're kind of like "eh, he had some good moments but we've got a glut at the position now". I haven't really seen any "doom & gloom", but more like, "who's camarllo"?
This. Not many people here arent talking about ST either, guys their ST play has been AWFUL, pitfully bad the first 2 games.... all this on top of lets face reality, take away all the lovefest for Clemons, Vonate, Bell, and Smith(well not so much for him) this Secondary is very shaky, and is the weakest link on this team....the ones in the first 2 preseason games have given up some big passing plays to avg opposing talent at best...what is going to happen when Tom Terrific comes?? Thats why I am very interested in tomorrow games, Atlanta has a legit passing attack, that I expect to take some shots downfield.... They had to make his trade, they needed depth, they needed somebody who is a proven special teamer, they needed somebody in place of WA who is obviously not right....I love Cammy, but this trade had to be made... I truly believe this is win win for both teams....
Why wouldn't you say Camarillo had better hands? He was the only Wr in the NFL with over 50 targets and had -0- drops? Over half of Greg C's catches also went for first downs, that would mean he had a great feel for the passing game, the problem with Greg C was this: 11 ypc..-0- TD's... Right around DBess numbers, only Bess scored TD's and handled punts, Hartline offers more of a deep and intermediate threat, and both are young players, Greg C has reached his ceiling those two have not. Basically Greg C did not offer what the passing game needed, someone who could break the 20 yd box around the LoS, whomever takes his place will have that ability. In the slot where his job is to find the first down marker and catch the ball, he will flourish running routes inbetween the hash marks.
Thanks. Yeah I do think we roster 5 WRs. Most everyone does, for good reason. I don't think you want to be caught bringing only 3 WRs to a game like we did against the Ravens in the 2008 playoffs. But we can afford for the #4 guy to be either a return guy, like maybe a Roscoe Parrish? Or to be a developmental guy...because he just won't play. In the latter scenario, Nolan Carroll and Davone Bess would handle return duties. That might be the way they have it in mind to go.
Well if that's the case, I apologize for not communicating well enough, but that is certainly not the impression I intended to give off.
Huh. Seems multiple people got that impression. I thought I did a good job presenting the good with the bad. Yeah, he had to transfer from Iowa to Northern Iowa after appearing on five different police reports, but he was Iowa's top CB when he did so and Northern Iowa considers him an unqualified success story as far as taking kids kicked out of other programs and helping them turn their lives around. No, he wasn't so hot as a boundary corner when forced to start in place of Antoine Winfield, however he DID start 7 games on one of the top defenses in the league, and as a slot CB those statistics are actually quite good. Yeah he got a little abused as a starter during the Conference Championship Game against the New Orleans Saints...but...the Saints abused a lot of people this year, hence the rings on their fingers.
I doubt Parrish will be available this yr Ck, Gailey has put him in the slot and he is flourishing. Stefan Logan though, will lose out to Antonio Brown, Logan has had two chances at returning kicks so far in the preseason.
What I think you have to keep in mind is that the slot CB position is just a different kind of animal from your normal boundary CB position. You ALWAYS have help over top. Seriously. You're always protected. You're working the middle of the field and you've got to be physical, you've got to be able to hit, you've got to be able to anticipate and you've got to be quick. Benny Sapp has those things going for him, he's not the best out there but he was good enough to be the nickel CB on one of the top defenses in football the last few years...and honestly his coverage statistics BLOW AWAY what our precious pair of Sean Smith and Vontae Davis did as rookies. That's the perspective I'm not sensing from enough people in this thread. This guy will HELP this football team. Greg Camarillo could have helped our football team if someone got hurt, but otherwise no. He was running #4 on the depth chart for a reason. And he's not really a STs contributor anymore. I think Nabo said that Davone Bess and Greg Camarillo are similar except for two things, Cam is taller and has better hands. I agree they're similar, and I agree Cam is taller and has better hands. HOWEVER, Davone Bess is a better RAC receiver by a country mile. He can take short passes and turn them into good gains. He can do the same thing or better that Camarillo does in the intermediate areas (with statistical evidence to back it up), but he also adds a short game that Camarillo just plain lacks (also with evidence to back THAT up). Brian Hartline, on the other hand, has a deep game that BOTH other players lack. I just can't believe some of the things I'm seeing in this thread. Camarillo the best hands in the NFL? Are you drunk?
Padre you say half of Cam's catches went for first downs, but he had one of the worst first down per reception ratios on the team among WRs and TEs last year, if not the worst. I know Ricky was worse, but I'm not sure anyone else was.
29 of 50 went for first downs, and FO had his 73 targets with -0- drops as the best ratio in the NFL for those who had enough targets to qualify. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7657 Downside is 11 ypc/2.4 YAC/29 yds was his longest reception in over 600 snaps played..that is why Camarillo no longer fit in Miami, you cannot have 3 Wr's whose best work comes within 20 yds of the LoS.
Sick, what percentage of those 4th quarter catches came in victories? Or better yet what ones are from scoring drives?
