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What we can learn from Gase

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I think looking back at Gase can help us avoid making the same mistakes going forward. I think looking at his tenure we can see that there were warning signs.

    #1 - Getting in over his head - I think that the first red flag should have been that a first year head coach thought that he could not only lead the team, but run the offense. This is a sure sign that maybe he didn't quite understand what he was getting into.

    #2 - The staff - Gase was pegged as a genius early on, and that may speak to his personal knowledge of football, but it is impossible for Gase to be everywhere at once. A solid HC is like a CEO and needs to be able to delegate to sound people. Aside from Vance, our staff looked like a college yearbook. A solid staff needs at least a few battle tested vets that can right a ship when the waters are choppy. It is far more important to see who a potential coach says they will bring on in terms of staff compared to players he would draft/free agents he would like to sign. On the surface, this may seem absurd, but a coach really can't guarantee with any degree of certainty players that he wants to be on our team will actually be on our team. At this point in the interviewing process, these guys should be putting a staff together. Discussing which each member of the staff brings to the team would be a valuable discussion.

    #3 - Flexibility of mind - Gase had his "guys" in both coaches and players. It became obvious that his loyalty blinded him too often. Keeping Burke as long as he did was inexplicable. Some of the guys that he brought in and his loyalty to RT did him in. You could also see that his vision of the offense never wavered. He could just never move past the vision that he created in his mind of what he wanted the offense to look like despite the inability bring this vision into fruition.

    In an interview, I would discuss with these candidates about times they have had to shift and alter their philosophy. I would also discuss when it is time to move on from both players and assistants. I would try and find out if these candidates are set in their ways or if they can adapt and change.

    #4 - You're not in Kansas anymore - Gase came from having Payton Manning when he was playing the best football of his career. To think he will ever get a player that good is foolish. Many of the coaches interviewing right are in the position that they currently are in because they have a really special player on their team. Again, the Gase arrogance is probably that he can make everyone a Payton Manning type player.

    I think the bigger question is, "How can you scheme around less talent?" Again, instead of focusing in on our roster which these candidates are essentially taking a crash course on, I would ask them about their rosters. For instance, if I were interviewing Eric Bieniemy, I would ask him, "If Patrick Mahomes tore his ACL in practice, how would your game plan change with Chad Henne as your QB?" If he said that Chad can make every throw Mahomes can make, and he would keep the same game plan, there wouldn't be a second interview for Bieniemy. I would really be listening to see how he understood his players, their strengths, and their weaknesses. Moreover, I would look to see how he planned on playing to strengths and minimizing the weaknesses. I think that this would be a great way to understand him as a coach. Once he familiarizes himself with our roster, he can start making those adjustments.

    I think using Gase as a model for seeing potential red flags could really help us going forward.
     
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  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I agree with #1 a lot.

    Most people know I don't think Gase is a bad coach. He tried to have his hands in every jar though and at the end of the day a man only has two hands. It sinks performance in every area, even your strengths.
     
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  3. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    I agree with a lot of what you listed and I don't know if it is going to work out for us or not going forward, but I think we did learn that you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. The organizational structure of Tannenbaum, Grier, and Gase wasn't working for anyone else not named Gase.
     
  4. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think the part about Mahomes in regards to Eric Bieniemy is a great point made. I'm pretty high on Eric B as a potential head coach, but that is a damn good question and certainly one that would need a damn good answer to it. We wont have Patrick Mahomes here for him to lean on. Would he even be a candidate without Mahomes? He has certainly gotten the most out of his running backs while in KC, but that's a good question and it's partially the reason why I favor Fangio over him a little bit. The track record...The fact that Fangio has had success with every defense he's coached anywhere he's been. He's definitely the safer choice in my opinion.
    Hopefully Grier has taken notes over the years. Between Philbin and Gase they both made specific mistakes in regards to players they wanted to keep and players they didn't want to keep. Philbin wanted robots who wore button down shirts and carried brief cases to work. Gase wanted only the players that believed in his way (and God forbid you question that). Both coaches were guilty of being way too controlling over players. Both were at this point assuredly guilty of "losing the locker room" and dividing the team. Both failed miserably at their actual "skills". Philbin was supposed to be a great offensive line coach while Gase was supposed to be an offensive mastermind.
    I think the main thing we can learn is that as a head coach/leader of men, you have to keep them engaged and they have to believe in you and what you are trying to accomplish with them. I think the other thing we can learn from Gase specifically is that when something isn't working, you have to switch it up, and when something is working, it is probably a good idea to find ways to keep it working. He completely ignored our best offensive player in Kenyan Drake just because it was his way. Hopefully whoever the new coach is will realize the talent that Drake has and maximizes it. That is in part why I am on board with hiring Eric B.
     
    tirty8 likes this.
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The biggest thing though is that it sounds like Gase was losing the locker room. This team certainly competed in all but one week (they gave up against Minne) and generally overachieved, but we saw the attitudes rising down the stretch and it was obvious some folks weren't happy. Philbin has completely lost the locker room as well (he never really had it) and I think it all comes back to being a leader of men- say what you will about Sparano, but his players loved him and a few asked to be traded if he wasn't going to be there anymore. We need that type of leader above anything else- I could care less about resumes or experience.

    Leaders lead and that's not always a learned skill....some can be taught to lead but most can't.

    And Gase just wasn't a true leader. He's wicked smart and a guy you have to want in the room, but the moment really was too big for him. We can look back to 2015 where Tannehill said, "Hey coach, let me throw some deeper routes....we're playing it too safe." Gase acknowledged that but he never learned from it....I think he was too smart for his own good and couldn't run the obvious calls when we needed them the most.

    What's my point here? It's incredibly hard to lead an organization and one person can't do it alone. We need a "big picture" guy that can inspire like Sparano, delegate tough decisions like Philbin and get the most out of our talent like Gase. Each of our last three coaches severely lacked in one of those areas and it warped their judgement on the field. Hopefully Grier is smart enough to look past the obvious stuff on resumes to focus on what really matters- a person who can lead and delegate while holding true to a larger vision.

    You find me that candidate and the rest of his resume doesn't really matter.
     
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  6. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with a lot of your sentiments. I think that based on Bieniemy's expertise on the offense, he would naturally be included to address that side of the ball first. The glaring hole for is obviously QB. I would hate for us to use need as a talent evaluator and reach (possibly mortgaging future draft picks) for the QB of the future that is simply not available.

    This is where the timing might just be right for Fangio. In this year's draft there is TONS of defensive talent. I could see Fangio pushing to fix the defense, fortify the o-line, and wait till 2020 when there will be a lot of QB talent available to make a move. Based on the talent available, the timing feels right for this plan.

    If this were 2020, and we had just fired Gase, I think I would be leaning more toward Bieniemy.

    I really do think that Fangio's defense could be replicated, and based on the available crop of talent, sooner rather than later.
     
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  7. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Doug pederson changed the eagles playbook 2 years in a row when wentz' went down to play to Foles strength.Result super bowl win and despite numerous injuries this year they are back in playoffs
     
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  8. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Arizona is interviewing him this week. Does anyone else think we may look like fools here?
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    We are the joke organization in the NFL right now. ESPN ranked our coaching vacancy as the least desirable because we overhaul everything every three years. They didn't even mention the fact that our GM controls the roster which all but guarantees if any other team makes an offer to our choice of head coach, that coach will go to the other team. Our new coach will be one that gets no other offers
     
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  10. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    Personally, I don't care what ESPN has to say. IMO, the only thing that matters is the conversation Grier has with the prospects, and Ross's willingness to open up his check book.
     
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  11. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I think Ross's checkbook will be closed for the next few years. We will get by on the cheap
     
  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'll say this again...good.

    I want a coach, not a GM on the sideline.
     
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  13. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    Why would you think that? The dude has millions lying around between his sofa cushions. Not to mention, I believe they said, he just ate $10 million when he fired Gase. IMO, there is no reason to believe that Ross will hamstring his guy Grier, whom he most definitely wants to succeed, by all of a sudden becoming cheap when it concerns the Dolphins. If anything, I think he may have to pay a premium, and I think he is very willing to do that if Grier wants a certain guy.
     
  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Such rankings are garbage. Please tell me that Jimmy Haslem is a more stable owner for a coach than Ross. Do it. I dare you.

    Over in Tampa we have career loser Licht foisting rapist Winston on any new coach. Thanks but no.

    Jets ... again kept their failure of a roster building GM as well and have to deal with some of the NFL's ****tiest fans and media.

    Miami absolutely has negatives - the lack of QB clarity, questions about injuries, etc - but we are not a void of a destination.

    What is interesting is that the other team with extensive experience with Gase - Denver - has pretty much openly shut the door on him.
     
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  15. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    His main focus right now is on developing the lower west side of Manhattan. I'm not sure but it might be the largest private development ever undertaken in NYC. I think his money is tied up there. In terms of cash flow, not personal wealth which is safe I'm sure. He's not using personal wealth to prop up the Dolphins and if NYC is using up all his cash flow I think we will endure a "conservative" approach
     
  16. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I don't know man....People laugh at me when I tell them i'm a Dolphins fan. Not that I give a crap, but I think we're kind of a joke right now among fans of the NFL.
     
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  17. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    And that could work well but the top candidates usually want some level of control over personnel. You basically knock off some of the better prospects off your list
     
  18. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Yeah I almost get this look of pity which I think is worse
     
  19. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Can you show me where it was said the HC would have no say at all?

    Honestly the coach and GM should have similar opinions to begin with, but I've seen nothing that says 0 control or opinion or input.
     
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  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I read it here on these boards. If that's not the case that's great. Input is one thing, it's final say that's the problem. Gase was partially fired as I understand because he wouldn't give up final say on the roster. Gase didnt have final say on personnel - only input. To me that's the best combination. The GM controls personnel, the coach the roster
     
  21. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    That's interesting. I have heard of that project. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Hope the New Year is going well. PEACE!
     
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  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Ive heard Grier will have final say, but to me that doesnt mean no-one else has important input.

    You could be right though, Im genuinely curious.
     
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  23. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    The Dolphins certainly are a joke of an organization but we did the right thing in firing Gase. Gase has an excellent agent who is pimping him out to the media. What you rarely hear talked about is how his team quit on him and how the players hated him. That you don’t hear since Jimmy Sexton has so many people in his back pocket.
     
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  24. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy this idea all the players hated him. There was reportedly a long line of players who all waited outside his office to say goodbye.

    Not saying he was loved by all, but remember that people who are discontent are always the easiest to hear.

    Unless you are TO and go crying about how you love people and do situps in your driveway.
     
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  25. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    It’s also interesting that the Browns are no longer interested in Gase. I always felt he wouldn’t have as many suitors as the media wanted us to believe. I don’t know why anyone would hire a coach whose team quit on him.
     
  26. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dave Hyde, who is a great reporter, said he privately polled many players who did not want him back. Also look at the results on the field this last month. As Louis Riddick said on ESPN yesterday, the players flat out quit the last few weeks.
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Out of all those things I'd only care about the result on the field. Maybe the Hyde thing if I could see all the actual numbers.


    It didn't look like the team gave up when they rallied against Minnesota or when it was 7-7 against the Jags.

    The Bills I will give you maybe they quit.
     
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  28. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    His team didn't quit on him. They fought the best they could. They were just outmatched at the end of the year. We played three of the best defensive lines in the NFL with our spit and duct tape offensive line. There is only so much scheme you can do before they catch on..

    The players didn't hate him. Some maybe, probably. But he had lines of players saying their goodbyes. Albert Wilson tweeted that if he hadn't gotten injured the world would have seen what a genius Gase was

    My gut tells me that the offensive players probably liked him and the defense maybe not so much but who knows
     
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  29. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not. That would be one of the worst possible fits for Gase. They are more obviously in a rebuild situation than we are. Part of the reason Gase was gone was because he failed to see the obvious rebuild that was in front of him. I really think he could have stayed had he been willing to work with Ross. Good luck taking that attitude into the desert.

    They have notoriously bad ownership.

    Trust me, that is not the job you want.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Listen to Ross speak (first 4 1/2 minutes). For him it's all about winning. He even repeats later on: "winning is the most important thing". So nothing right now suggests he won't open up his checkbook. Guy's heart is in the right place.. just not sure if they'll pick the right HC.

     
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  31. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    don't let Ross hire the DC is what we learned.
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don’t go for a coach who is only known for his schematic acumen..

    Being able to lead a group of men and have them follow you, needs to be the foundation, then we talk x’s and o’s
     
  33. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You wouldn't want to work for an owner that fires coaches after their first year but won't fire his drunk *** **** loser GM that handed him a garbage roster? But Miami is sooooooo terrible lol.

    Edit: just saw Bienemy declined to interview with them.
     

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