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What player do you take if...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fishhead, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Fishhead

    Fishhead Member

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    Miami stays at #5, and someone (the Chargers, maybe) moves up to #3 and takes Tua?

    1. Burrow
    2. Young
    3. Tua
    4. Giants go OL
    5. ???

    I’m leaning towards Isaiah Simmons. Dude is a beast, covers the whole field. Top corner in Okudah would be option #2.
     
  2. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Trade down.
     
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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I want to trade down from 5 unless Chase Young is sitting there. Period.
     
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  4. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Best pass rusher available.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Isaiah Simmons
     
  6. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Defensive juggernaut like Simmons, Young it Okudah.
     
  7. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Simmons is a beast!
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Try to trade down or we take Herbert or Love, whichever you have rated higher. Not getting a QB here is, frankly, not acceptable.
     
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  9. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    I dont get the argument of "needing a qb" why grab a QB because its a need? Why not go for the best talent available? Finding a franchise QB is really hard thing to do, and frankly alot of teams fail and waste alot of good years developing one OR failing to do so. Dolphins should approach and not reach or panick because its a "need". Fix the holes first and let a QB fall to you... Im pretty sure theres atleast one good QB that goes late in this draft and will get overlooked by alot of teams. Look at the Chiefs, they moved down just to grab Mahomes. And there was atleast 11 teams that passed on him.
    .
     
  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Easy for you to say, Titans boy.
     
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  11. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    Why is it easy for me to say? Titans hasnt had a franchise QB since the McNair days
     
  12. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Seems that you answered your question.

    Also, while Tua is the hot thing atm, both Herbert and Love are legit first round talents. I'd probably prefer Love myself, Herbert has the physical attributes but I am not sure he will put it together. But the point is, take the guy, see if he works, if not try again with one of your picks next year. Try until you have your guy.

    A high-end QB is always worth more than a high end anything else.
     
  13. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    Absolutely not trade down, unless it's only a couple picks.

    In your scenario, there are five legitimate blue-chip prospects on the board.

    Isaiah Simmons, S/LB
    Jerry Jeudy, WR
    Jeffrey Okudah, CB
    Derrick Brown, DT
    Andrew Thomas, OT*, if this isn't NYG's pick

    Passing on any of these five to trade outside of the top ten would haunt this franchise.
     
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  14. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    simmons or okudah if trades don't exist, maybe even so if trades exist.
     
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  15. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    And you havent been remotely relevant since then, until you finally had a guy play like one this year.

    I dont know how that isnt obvious, it's like a big flashing neon sign.
     
  16. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    lol you can blame ol Jeff Fisher for that... he sabotaged Vince Young’s career.
     
  17. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    VY sucked. Fisher was trash but he isnt the reason why VY couldnt complete passes or be accurate.
     
  18. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    I blame the front office with their horrible selections throughout years. Flopped on Jake Locker, Vince Young and now Marcus Mariota. GM could do wonders. Hiring Jon Robinson is probably the smartest move that the Titans has ever done. Its been a complete turnaround since he took over in '16. Two back to back winning seasons, followed by an AFC title game.
     
  19. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    Hopefully Detroit will take Tua at 3 then we can concentrate on OL or DL. Then go QB with one of our other first round picks.
     
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  20. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Herbert at #5 makes a ton of sense IMO.
     
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  21. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    They wont, theyll target Derrick Brown.
     
  22. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I have said it before and I will say it again. We should take LOVE at 5 if Tua isn't available. That way he can sit a season and learn behind Fitzpatrick. I would like to add a caveat to this. If we learn during team interviews etc. that LOVE doesn't have quick processing power then I don't want him or any other QB. Tua has had great success behind a great OL at Alabama. While that may be a benefit for him he still has to run the show and he did that very well. He would be my first choice at QB if Burrow is gone.
     
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  23. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I’d Literally drive to Florida and punch Grier in the mouth! We have way to many holes to fill and void of talent we take the best player in the board and build. Also if that happens this franchise is clearly doomed!

    also I’m worried about the pats trying to move up to grab a QB and hurt us
     
  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Trade down. Even if Tua is still available at #5. I would trade down.
     
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  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    That's the one guy I don't want.
     
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  26. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Simmons, Brown, Thomas or Hebert .... all REALLY good choices ...

    Equally, if you could trade down and still stay top 10 ... I would consider that as well ... would not trade out of the top 10.

    Personally don’t see us trading down from #5 .... I DO see us potentially moving down with 1 of the next 2 .... equally, I could also see us move up a couple picks with either of them depending on how it unfolds ...

    BUT I do not see us taking Love at #5 under any circumstance ....

    What would be interesting, is IF CIN fell in love with Hebert last week at the Senior Bowl and Burrow is sitting there at #2 ... it COULD happen ....
     
  27. Ryan1973

    Ryan1973 New Member

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    Hell no! I don't want them to trade down. They need to draft Tua or another impact player at #5. They already have three first round picks to begin with. I don't want them to miss out on an impact player at #5.
     
  28. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I agree! If anyone saw how poorly he played in Rose Bowl, the thought of drafting him should make you cringe.

    Call me silly, but your performance in a bowl game is what determines whether or not you have what it takes to make it at the next level, and Herbert folded like a cheap suit
     
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  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Didn't JaMarcus Russell have a superb Bowl game? It's certainly worth looking at, but as the main determining factor? Meh.

    Herbert is a guy who you definitely need the right coach and teacher. He has the potential and raw ability to be elite, but couldn't quite pull it all together. For me, he's a guy that is not a personal favorite but also one I can't heavily criticize if Greer and Flores and Gailey sit him down and have him run through plays, decision-making, etc and determine they can work with him.

    Both Love and Herbert seem high ceiling guys but with the potential to be duds, whereas I think both Burrow and Tua also have high ceiling but also a low chance of being a total bust. Our best shot is to just try and make sure we end up with Tua, even if that means we are out the 39 or even 26.
     
  30. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, he did his thing during the Senior Bowl.
     
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  31. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    AJ Epenesa or Andrew Thomas. Or trade down.
     
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  32. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He was the MVP or co MVP of the Rose Bowl.

    He didn't put up big numbers in the passing game. He didn't have to. He rushed for three touchdowns.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  33. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Rushed for 3 TDs? Right, we don't need nothing like THAT around here.
     
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  34. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    Ok let me change the question slightly. For those of you who said that you'd trade down, what would be the furthest that you'd be willing to trade down and what would be the minimum you'd accept to trade down to there.
     
  35. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    In my perfect world, I would trade down from #5 with Oakland for both #12 and #19. Those combined have about the same value as 5 on the new chart. That would give us 12, 18, 19 and 26.

    And then, again in my perfect world, I would target OTs Wills and Wirfs, along with DL Epenesa and DB Delpit. If we were able to get three of them, I would be delighted.

    And part three of the perfect world would be trading #26 for a team desperate to move up into the first round for a second rounder this year, and a first rounder in 2021. We would then have three second rounders and a high third rounder remaining on Day Two to stock up on BPA. And we would then again have three first round picks in 2021, along with two second rounders, and we can start the fun again next year.
     
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  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I would still try to stay ahead of Indy and the Bucs (barring them signing a Rivers/Brady in free agency) and take Love or Herbert. Though I would probably just stick with 5 and do that anyway.
     
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  37. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I gotta say, I love Big Simmons! He has the frame of a DE, the smooth hips of a corner, and the speed of a running back. He is a video game player. I agree that he is worth consideration.

    I want to be the voice of reason. The love for Tua is overblown and the hatred for Herbert is equally overblown.

    Tua is coming off of a serious injury - he may NEVER be the same. We HAVE to bake that into the Tua conversation. Tua has a history of injuries. The floor for this kid is that he winds up playing 10 games in his career because his body fails him. The kid has the lowest floor of all first round prospects. Also, I know that Tua put gaudy numbers, but you have to watch him play to put things in perspective. There was A LOT of dinking and dunking. Granted, he did hit these passes fairly accurately, and when he did push the ball down field, he displayed the best deep ball accuracy in this year's draft. My understanding is that he had elite character and is the type of guy you would want to make the face of your franchise. Elite leadership and character doesn't help a team very much if the leader is on crutches.

    There is no doubt that Herbert is nowhere near Tua in terms of personality. Will Herbert grow and mature as a person or is this a case of trying to get a tiger to change its stripes? This is a valid point. One other thing I would like point out is that his personality is underwhelming, but let's not overhype this. We are not talking about Johnny Manziel here. My other biggest concern is that his tenure at Oregon was underwhelming. It just felt like he lost a lot of big games. I am a guy that absolutely hates the "he's just a winner" evaluation, but I have broken my own rule and thought to myself, "If you can't lift a PAC team to the playoffs, are you really gonna be able to lift an NFL team?" Winning a Rose Bowl and earning the MVP did feel like a step in the right direction, but my concerns still are there. I thought that playing well in the Senior Bowl was promising. I like to get to see how a guy looks around better talent, and winning the MVP sent the right message. Sure it was one game, and there were rules about blitzing and types of coverages allowed. Take it for what you will. It is good to see that he is notching feathers in his cap even at the very end of his career. What I love about Herbert is his frame and arm. I am big on evaluating on traits not production, and he has traits in spades. Instantly, we would have one of the strongest arms in football. Coming out, he reminds me a lot of Josh Allen. I think Herbert is more accurate but less athletic. Finally, the most obvious foil to Tua is that Herbert will be ready as soon as training camp begins. Herbert will be working on timing and working to get in sync with his teammates from day one. Tua will likely be on the sidelines. Objectively, I think Tua's development will be stunted. With his body, a redshirt year might be the best option. Herbert will be ready to roll from the start.

    I really think that Tank for Tua has left a lot of people smitten and unable to evaluate the situation objectively.
     
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  38. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Not sure how the love for Tua is overblown. When it comes to what’s between his ears, he has the IT factor not to mention his accuracy and anticipation skills. Conversely, Herbert is another check down Charlie because he can’t read defenses.
     
  39. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jeez, he does NOT have a history of injuries. He had 2 high ankle sprains (which are probably the most common injury in the NFL) for which he had ELECTIVE surgeries to quicken his recovery from said injuries and to limit the severity of future high ankle sprains. These are not an issue.
    Yes, the hip is a worry but we are not going to draft him high if any of the medical reports cast doubt on his future career. Also, even if he's not ready to go 100% at training camp, he will still be getting reps as he gets stronger as they can't hit the QB in practice any how, so he's hardly going to be sitting on the sideline for the entire year just reading a play book. By all accounts (as that's all we have at this moment), he will be ready to throw at his pro day, so that will give the scouts a good idea of his recovery and I doubt he won't have a battery of tests beforehand (probably the most any player has ever had), so if there's any doubt, he will drop.
    Better evaluators than me have said that Herbert's accuracy is an issue but you then dismiss Tua's accuracy as a bad thing and that he's all dink & dunk, and in the next sentence say that he showed the best deep ball accuracy - which is it? Also, unless the offense is going to change to a hail mary/vertical only offense, his arm (although not as strong as Herbert's) is plenty strong enough.
    Also, if Fitz is coming back, there is no chance that he would be the starter in the 1st game anyhow, even before the hip injury and it's unlikely that Herbert would also be a day 1 starter - there is nothing that anybody has seen where that's a likely scenario. More QB's have excelled after sitting for half a/a whole season, otherwise you are just chucking them to the wolves unless the rest of the team around them is elite and they have shown elite traits (which Herbert has not yet per all reports).
    Herbert could well be a good/great QB and from what we have seen from reports, his ceiling could be RT - is that enough to take us where we want to be, as there's more to being a QB than size/frame and a strong arm. They & Burrow could all end up as busts, there's just no way of knowing at this time. However, if the best QB is available at 5, frame & arm strength is not the most important trait. You have said it yourself, you want the QB with leadership traits and elite character. I am worried for him that he won't be what the projections were pre-injury but all accounts so far are promising and you are right, Tua may never be the same but Tua at 90% is still better than Herbert at 100%.
     
  40. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The Tua hype isn't really overblown, he's a legitimate elite prospect.

    Herbert ... well he should have come out last year when he had a chance to be #1 overall imo. He didn't really show any progression from last year to this, and many say he even regressed. That said, the raw talent that made him a highly rated prospect last year are still present. It's just more of a question of will he be able to put it together or not. For me, Ill just have to trust the staff. If they feel they can get the most from him then I will be fine with the pick. If they pass, I can't really fault them. If we don't end up with one of Tua/Herbert/Love though, I will question what we are doing.
     

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