What is your impression of Jeff Ireland as a GM ?

Tony and Philbin are not his bosses.

 

Absolutely nothing because this happens constantly and no one actually pays attention when people begin to harp on players that turn out to be terrible.

You can't hold a real life GM to make-believe fantasy draft stuff.

 

And the same arguments went back and forth. "Look at the numbers!" "He's in a poor system" "Get a better coordiantor and he'll be good" and of course those people were proven wrong. They decided to look with their hearts and not simply their eyes, just like the IReland defenders do now.

We do not have a good football team and Chad Henne was not a good QB. These things are obvious if you are willing to see them.

 

I did not passionately defend Cam. I passionately tried to get people to understand what was happening.

 

If I thought Jeff Ireland was indeed the problem, and I have just as much interest as you in the Miami Dolphins' success, why would I not want him replaced?

If Jeff Ireland is indeed the problem some people say he is, it should be only too easy to show that objectively, yet no one does. Instead they cherry-pick here or there to make their point, which is very unconvincing.

 

it ceases to be "fantasy draft" stuff, when they are consistently wrong.

 

I was one of the people who thought Henne could've succeeded in a better system. I liked his physical tools but when it came down to it, the guy's just not a great QB. Truth is, I WANTED him to succeed so badly because I was tired of not having a franchise QB. I felt the same way about Ireland until last year. I defended his picks and his "blueprint", but it's clear the guy just isn't getting it done. The teams lacks impact players and playmakers.

 

These are the kinds of statements that would be very easy to support objectively if they were true, yet no one does.

 

I've shown you the players on the team, our completely barren 2008 draft sans Long, our 2009 draft is down to Smith and Hartline (two average players), 2010 is short on real impact, 2011 is Pouncey and nobody else.

Free agents are Wake, Dansby and Burnett. Wake is great, the other two are good at best. Marshall is an average corner.

Bad trades, compounded by other bad trades (trading two 2's for Marshall then delaing him for two 3s, the post Marshall trade down resulting in Odrick, etc.)

You (and the rest of the Ireland brigade) dismiss all this by saying "Most other GMs do similar things". Well fine, but that is the worst defense of somebody's job performance that I've ever heard

 

I don't think its defense, just perspective.

 

Of course it's defense. Otherwise there is no merit to the argument.

And no one is arguing that we will definitively get somebody better than Ireland when we make a change. I understand there are no guarantees in life. But I think Ireland has had enough time and it is time to move forward with somebody new, even with eyes wide open that there is a possibility he could be a complete disaster

 

Right, but the point here is what is the possibility? What are the odds? In order to figure that out, you need to first determine where Ireland stands in relation to the rest of the GM world.

Also, what are the odds that Ireland's performance improves? What are the odds that he hits on the QB and head coach?

 

The instances where they have missed opportunities to help our skill positions are numerous and harped on incessantly in here. I don;t think I have to tell you that.

 

No you don't. If average isn't good enough then it isn't good enough.

I've seen nothing to suggest that Ireland will magically improve. Even if RT looks good that won't wash away everything else, at least for me. Particularly because I have no faith that he could build a team around RT anyway

 

It says that sports is one of the few professions where spectators and noobs actually think they know as much, if not more, than the professionals who do it for a living.

 

And how much worse is that than the other teams in the league? Do you know?

Same question.

Same question.

But it actually wouldn't be (if it's true), because what makes this team different from others over the past few years is its record, and if its record isn't explained by what the GM has done in an inferior manner to other GMs, then replacing the GM isn't going to solve anything.

In solving this problem, do you want to do ready, aim, fire, or ready, fire, aim? If you're going to replace Ireland, at least make sure he's the problem first.

You determine whether he's the problem by comparing him to other GMs, and then finding that the teams with better records have had better work done by their GMs.

If you don't find that, Ireland can't very well be the problem.

This is all very simple, but when you have tunnel vision on Ireland like you do, you can't very well do the comaprisons with other GMs you need to do to determine if he's really the problem.

 

It is also one of the few professions where spectators and noobs can actually do a better job than the "professionals" that do it for a living.

 

Very true, I promise I could build a better team than Ireland, and save money all day long.

 

And the proof of that comes from what? Our thinking it to be true?

My lord.

 

Remember how Ireland got his "start".

In fact, I remember how I got offered my first sports job. I still laugh about it to this day. My qualifications were that I spoke well, spoke spanish fluently, busted out of baseball professionally and knew the Dom Rep. well. Voila..I got offered a Regional Scout job with a budget.

Friend of mine mirrored my qualifications and actually took a similar job. He worked in a MLB front office till the other day.

 

The proof comes in a draft board. If you can prepare a draft board (anybody can), and you can beat Ireland consistently. Then..well....you are better at the draft, than Jeff Ireland. it is not rocket science.

 

And the sad part is that there is no way I can disagree with this and be right.

This is an art. Not science.

 

My point exactly.

 

Me too. On Madden.

 

Once again you point to something that doesn't matter in your defense of Ireland.

If the players we have aren't good enough, then that's on him. News flash: Our players aren't good enough.

I don't need to go through every team's drafting and free agent record to know what the problem is with the Dolphins. I know that the Dolphins (and Ireland) have not done a good enough job of picking and signing good players. It is not all coaching.

You want to engage in a pointless analysis. Do we have good enough players or not? Do we have the foundation of a good team? Do you think Ireland has shown enough in terms of picking good players that you feel confident he can build a Super Bowl team? (I assume winning the SB is still the goal although to hear you and others tell it, being avergae is a-ok)

If the answers to the above questions are no, then you repalce the GM and move on. It does not matter what other teams may or may not have done during the same time period.

 

Using this logic, 31 teams should fire their GMs after this season.

 

It's not too early to say the timing sucked if one were concerned with going into THIS season with as strong a roster as possible.

 

IMO Ireland is a good scout, but I don't agree with what I perceive are some of his position priorities. I say perceive b/c a big part of the GM's job is to find the kinds of players that a coach wants for his system. So a good GM will taylor his position priorities to what his coach is asking for. I think that system fit is vitally important for a player's success. A team's overall record is a function of how well the players they have fit in a given system. Since Miami has had so much system turnover the last few years, I don't weigh the overall record against Ireland as much as most here do. I give more weight to the metric posted recently that ranked draft value and listed Ireland in the top 10. I personally think Ireland is a probably a little below the top 10 b/c I haven't liked the balance of his FA acquisitions, but I would still put him in the top half. I also think that he seems to be on the same page as Philbin, which I see as critical to our future success. So I voted "positive" in the poll.

 

It was stated by either Ireland or Parcells that during their time working together they agreed on all player personnel moves except 1 or 2. So, basically if Parcells never got involved in personnel moves, the current talent level of the team would be basically the same.

 

I read a quote recently from one of them that said they agreed every time except once or twice.

 

Unlike other sports, in the NFL, GM's should be more reactive.

The way the league is set up, division play has a higher degree of importance.

It is obvious who the big dog is in our division. After nodding in an approving manner after they drafted Vontae and Sean Smith, there has been little attention paid since to the secondary, which IMO is the most important unit in this division.

I would have also liked a concerted effort to find a bookend pass rusher to pair with Cam Wake.

Linebackers that can run are of the utmost importance, and I must say that they have actively sought out the "right" type of linebackers to compete in this division. They have neglected the secondary,and worst, they weakened it. On the pass rush front, they tried to hit homeruns with toothpicks to find a a partner for Wake.

It is this half assed build that has me bothered.

 

I think that's a stretch. You know what he's saying.

 

That sounds like one of those generic statements that isn't really true. Ireland has admitted that Parcells took players off of his (Ireland's) draft board. That may not be a disagreement per say, but clearly one person had included a player on the draft board and the other didn't. It's also well known that Parcells had pet picks (projects) every year. There would not be a disagreement there b/c it was understood that it was Parcells' pick, but that does not mean that Ireland would have made the same choice.

 

With in the frame of Parcells blueprint.

I don't agree with Parcells blueprint, but if I was forced to follow it, then I would think forgoing Flynn for Long and Henne is a solid move that I agree with at the time, even if without the blueprint I would never have drafted Henne.

It makes sense to me because of what I do for a living. I may have to design three different submits for a logo based on the clients wants. Because of their wants I may hate the three submits i created but if the client picks the one I hate the least then we agree. Does that makes sense at all?

 

He never said they were, and I think you know that. His job was trying to find the best players to fit their schemes. He wasn't drafting or signing free agents in a vacuum.

 

No we weren't. He got hurt and missed most of his one season under a new OC. Had Henne stayed healthy last season, who knows how things would have played out. In his brief stint, he looked much better in Daboll's offense than he ever did in Henning's, IMO.

 

Its a significant difference though. I know he didn't say it but he also neglected to acknowledge the difference between finding players for your coaches scheme as opposed to finding players for your boss' scheme whether it works for your coach or not.

 

Sounds like supposition to me.

 

Nonsense.

If Pittsburgh fails to make the playoffs, Colbert shouldn't be fired as he has a long history of picking good players for that team. If Pittsburgh suddenly starts missing the playoffs every year for the next 3 years and the talent level dips, then his firing would be justified.

Unlike colbert or any of the other top GMs Ireland has no history of building winning teams and therefore is under much more scrutiny when his teams do not win consistently. If we kept Ireland and suddenly we started making the playoffs every eyar and finding multiple pro bowlers in the next 3 drafts then I would be happy to admit I was wrong.

But that is unlikely to happen and I wouldn;t gamble the future of my organization on it. This off season coming up is too important

 

If, Ireland was limited by the so called Parcells blueprint, who's to say that blueprint didn't fit the types of players Tony wanted for his schemes? Before Philbin, Ireland's job was acquiring players that fit with what Tony wanted. That blueprint Ireland was alleged to have been limited by, may have suited Tony's needs for putting together his kind of team.
Seems kind of silly to think Ireland is out there stuck with following the so called Parcells blueprint, and no consideration given at all to what Tony wanted.