First off, I am not writing this to bash the drafting of Mike Pouncey or Daniel Thomas, I am simply trying to get peoples opinions about what the FO is thinking. The Pouncey pick I am fine with. He is a great player and should be at the very, very least a solid contributor on the OL for the next 10 years. Did we draft him a couple picks before he was supposed to go? Possibly, but 4 years down the road it doesn't matter where you were drafted it matters what you do on the field. Heading into our 3rd round pick I did not expect us to trade up at all. If we did I thought it would be for Ryan Mallett (another discussion in itself). When I saw that we traded up I really thought that it would be for either a WR (which could be considered a luxury pick, I guess), but more so I was betting that it would be another offensive lineman. Yes, I know if we drafted another OL such as Marcus Gilbert, John Moffitt, Jah Reid, or Will Rackely most people on here would have jumped out of a building but hear me out. If you have a dominate offensive line it is accepted that you could take any HB and make him look like a superstar. Logically with us needing to draft two halfbacks this draft it made sense to take them in between rounds 4-6. This draft class is very deep HB-wise and in my opinion if we solidified our line with: Long - Pouncey - Incognito - Moffitt/Rackely - Carey, we could have taken a number of different HBs in that range and had a very, very productive running game. I know we still have John Jerry and that he could develop into a solid RG, but if we took Moffitt or Rackley there would have been intense competition for that starting spot, not to mention depth along the line. Instead we trade up to select Daniel Thomas. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Thomas, I just think the drop off in talent at the OL position from the 2nd/3rd round range to the 4th/5th/6th round range is MUCH more significant than the drop off of talent in the HB position. It would have benefited our team much more in my opinion to get any of those OL prospects and waited on either Daniel Thomas, Kendall Hunter, Tawain Jones, Delone Carter, etc. Its obvious imo that we still will draft another HB, which logically makes sense to double up the HB position with later picks as opposed to early picks. Another thing I find ironic is the the fact that Tony Sparano was an OL coach and we have to take OL really high in the draft because we can't apparently develop our own . Ireland has also seen first hand how you can find solid HBs in the later rounds via Marion Barber, Jalen Parmalee, etc, etc. Finding HB's has been one of Irelands strengths in the draft, especially late in it. What does this all mean? I honestly think our FO and coaching staff is scared s#!tless about the whole Harbaugh situation. I think they have a fire under their butts to upgrade this team and get a lot more wins fast. This explains taking two extremely "safe" prospects early in the draft. We are looking for contributors that can help us win now; which in my opinion is causing us to miss on prospects that could ultimately help the team out more. Also so far I don't see how our picks correlate to what either Ireland, Sparano, or Ross (I forgot who said it, I believe it was Ross though) said about playing more "exciting" football. Bottom line Ross and company wants to put people in the seats and with these "safe" picks I only expect more of the same old. Lastly, I just finished up watching tape and reading about Thomas. When they mentioned the fact that he played QB in Juco and HS and that he may be a potential Wildcat QB I wanted to vomit. I am over that experiment and I hope our FO and coaching staff is too. As a pure running back he seems like an ok prospect, here is my break down: Positives: He has a big frame and it looks like he could add even more to it. He has really good vision, he sees the field well and especially the cut back lanes. Quick change of directional skills Smart, like most former QBs, you can see who much he knows about how the offense works. Raw, I mean this in the sense of the term that he is going to get better. He has only been a running back for 2 years. Competitor, he will fight for those extra yards, or make that extra cut-back/dive as he is being tackled to gain a yard or two. Workhorse that can handle many carries a game. Negatives: He doesn't break a lot of tackles. He slows down a lot once contact has been made. Runs really upright, and you don't see him lower his shoulder into potential tacklers much. Lacks the speed to take it to the house and will get caught from behind. Isn't elusive, fast, or strong enough to break tackles and get away from Safeties. Not often, but occasionally can try to wait for a hole too long, or can see two holes and dance a little (like I said not often though). Another thing to note was that I watched him closely as UCF played KSU and nearly upset them, but he was KSU's main offensive weapon. Their passing game was very bad and he was the key component to their offense. Teams knew KSU were going to run and he was still successful. Well, I am going to end my rant now. I don't have any problems with the actual picks, but I really don't understand the logic behind the Daniel Thomas pick that much. I hope our FO knows what its doing though.
Someone said that New England took Shane Vereen which that's who Miami wanted so they panicked and moved up. They could have just stayed and got him. I think this guy is going to produce but this guy is no home run threat and the offense really needs that.
I think he breaks more tackles than advertised. 2 years at RB is nothing. He'll start running lower as he progresses as well. That kind of vision out of a guy playing two years is incredible.
You can't win with any RB. Some have much more talent then others. The Dolphins wanted a guy and made the move. They have done there homework and he fits our offense.
It's pretty much what Ireland said in his press conference... he saw running backs coming off the board in the middle to late second round area, knew that he needed one and that HIS guy, Daniel Thomas, wasn't going to make the 79th pick. So he traded up, based on need, to get HIS guy. He had a conviction on the pick, he used the ammo that he had in this draft (hey, I'm happy he didn't use future picks to accomplish his task) and he got his guy. You had Carolina, Cinciy, Denver picking at the top of round three and he knew one of them was going to get Daniel Thomas. I personally think Leshoure coming off the board more than Vereen, influenced his thought process. In a way, I'm glad that Ireland and Sparano still share the same thought process when it comes to upgrading this football team. That, to me, is the best thing to come out of the first two days of the draft, if you look at this from an overall, team perspective. I go back not to what was said about making this football team more exciting, that's all bull ****. I go back to what Sparano said about FIXING this football team. That he knew what it would take to FIX this team. In my mind he is referring to his bread and butter when it comes to winning in this league. Upgrade the lines, fix the running game, back to basics, dominate the line of scrimmage and you win. It's not pretty... it's not sexy... it doesn't make you look at the roster on paper and get a stiffy. What about Tony Sparano and his style of coaching, the Dolphins' style of football since he took over, really made you think that we were going to change that philosophy? Based on not making the playoffs? Based on going 7 and 9? Based on the owner flying across the country in an effort to recruit your replacement? You think Sparano is going to change his core philosophy based on that? He won back in 2008 by doing what? NOT making mistakes, dominating the line of scrimmage, winning the turnover battle. That is how he believes we win. And to that extent, I can't find fault in what we have done in this draft so far. If you buy into what his core philosophy is and what he believes it takes to win in this league, how can you not like what we've done in this draft? People focus too much on one position and forget about the rest of the team. But lets see what happens the rest of the offseason before we jump off any bridges. We all know what position I'm referring to. We all know it hasn't been addressed yet. Lets not push the panic button just yet. And yes I do think we can win with guys that are soon to be available once this lockout gets resolved. Whether that be via the free agent market or via a trade. I also think we can still win with #7 at qb under the right circumstances... but believe it would be a huge mistake to not attempt to bring in competition at the position.
As you probably noticed, the Pats doubled up at RB with Ridley in the 3rd, using a pick that was before our 79th pick. That double up could have likely been Thomas rather than Ridley, had the Pats been given the choice.
Sorry but I just do not understand how you can classify Pouncey as a GREAT player. He was never a first team SEC selection at his position in college and he was merely an above average center in his senior season, in which he had constant problems with his snaps. He is not projected to be the same high quality player his brother is and while he may be an upgrade over the players now on the Dolphins at his position. I don't think that there is anything in is play at Florida which leads me to believe that he is a future All Pro in the NFL. I think he will probably be an adequate starter for the Dolphins but he will never be a great player as you imply. As far as Thomas is concerned, like you I question the Dolphins trading up and giving up so many picks for him. He does not appear to have great speed and his numerous fumbles over the last two season is a real negative as far as I am concerned. He appears to be a back which will bring the same type of production to the Dolphins as Brown and Williams did last year and to me, this is certainly not an upgrade at the RB position. As far as your thinking that Sparano, Ireland and the rest of the front office feel like they are on the hot seat. No doubt that they are afraid to take risks in the draft because they are concerned about their jobs. The picks so far, while safe will do nothing to improve the product on the field next year and so playing it safe will do nothing for their job security. I suspect that Ireland, Sparano, and most of the player personnel staff will be joining the millions of unemployed American looking for a new job after the 2011 season is complete.
Not sure they panicked but there was a run on RB's before the Phins 3rd round pick which probably caused them to move up. The Pats took two RB's within 18 picks of each other (Vereen and Ridley), Lions took Leshoure, Dallas took Murray, and rumor going around has the Bengals planning to take Thomas 13 picks ahead of the Phins 3rd round pick.
Have you ever tried snapping the ball? The guy was at his first year at the center position. Ireland did mention the snapping problems and is able to show tape that proves that he improved throughout the year.
He is know to break tackles and get yards after first contact. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/draft-2011/players/101005.html#ixzz1L0lFS5MH
I would guess that Sparano plans to either make Pouncey a guard that can play center or a center that can play guard. He has a hard-on for developing players to play more then one postion. He likes that flexability in case a player gets hurt, I guess. In some respect I think it works against players from reaching their full potential at one postion but its his philosphy and we have to live with it. Either way what I find distressing is that we need to add players to our O-Line still. We are 4 years into this rebuild and when they took over the line was their first and biggest priority and its still not done. When you look at all the draft picks, FAs, and money we have invested in the line, there really is no excuse for it still being so incomplete. Thats not to say that I am suggesting they give up and pretend like it is complete when it clearly isnt but it does make me question Sparano's judgement. With that being said I think going O-Line was the right move in this draft. You can not move the ball if you loose the battle in the trenches. In defense of this staff, at least they are not too stuborn to admit they made mistakes and are willing to move on from players that did not work out. I think they are going to try to bring Ricky back. I think many are making more out of Ricky's comments then they really are. Nobody will offer him a better situtation then we will and he will resign and he will be a positive influence inside the locker room. We might sign a starter QB to replace Henne but we wont morgage the farm to do it. As bad as Henne is, if you take the pressure off of him he can be serbvicable enough to keep us from loosing games and that is what they seem to want from him. They talk about chunck yardage but they play like they are content with 3-4 yrd plays. They want to grind the clock down by pounding the ball. They want to win with ultra conservative playing. I really do not expect to see much of the wildcat without Ronnie and David Lee around. I really hope they continue to give Nolan talent to work with and do not just leave him to work with the same cast of players from one year to the next. The approach we are taking means we are going to have to keep teams scoring under 14 to win games. Controling the clock will help but much of it is going to fall on our defense and Dan Carpenter.
Bingo. If you have a good offensive line, trading up for a RB should never be necessary. I'm still not happy with the pick even after a night to sleep on it. We could have taken some nice players with that 5th and 7th round pick. It's a plug and play position. It's not a position where the guy you get in the back of the second round is going to make your team significantly better than the guy you take in the 3rd. I understand why some fans don't get that, but I wish we had a GM who got that. I could care less that we didn't take Ryan Mallet, and in hindsight I'm glad the Patriots took a guy who in the immediate future will most likely do nothing for them. But I just can't get behind giving up picks for a RB. If you have a GM who is know for finding un-mined talent in those later rounds, there should be too much value on that 5th and 7th pick. Prove me wrong, Daniel Thomas.
My comments regarding Pouncey had do with him being called a GREAT player. I think he will be an upgrade over the present players on the offensive line at guard or center right now, but I don't think he will be as good as his brother and I don't think he is a future All Pro. That is my opinion of him and hopefully he will prove me wrong over the coming years. As far as your comments stating that Ireland defended his play at center for the Gators last season. Exactly what did you expect Ireland to say? He had just taken Pouncey with the Dolphins first pick in the draft, so he obviously wasn't going to point out any negatives regarding a player he had drafted so highly.
We are trying to establish a run game, which will in turn open up the pass. Drafting interior o-line + power back = ground and pound. Everyone bashes Henne and wants to draft a qb when Henne had no run game to rely on and also had a senile old man calling his plays.
This regime wanted to run the ball, become more athletic, more versatile, more dynamic, faster, and with better playmaking ability (along with freeing up Marshall to earn his paycheck). We succeeded in a major way. Fans should be extremely happy with this draft. Outside of a COP back, we got everything the offense needed and with better talent than I thought would be available. Free agency just became wide open for us because of this offensive haul. Our needs: Interior Oline: took the best in the draft. big, athletic, do it all type RB: traded up for 2nd best in the draft (who can also run the WC the way it should be run if we use it). Speed WR: One of the best in the draft (top 100 prospect by many). Huge score for us. Versatile, playmaking #2 TE: one of the best in the draft and just scratching the surface of his potential at TE. More talented than his draft position would indicate. Lucky this kid was available in the 6th. I really didn't expect we'd get ALL FOUR of these positions at this kind of overall talent level.
Andy Reid is a pretty good coach no? A former offensive line coach. What were one of the Eagles needs coming into this draft?... I'll give you a hint... starts with an O and ends with an L. Yet Winston Justice is considered a bust. That Andy Reid is a bum!
I agree that Sparano and company might be scared, but I don't blame him. Asking Sparano to draft Mallet is asking him to basically fall on the sword. Nobody is going to argue that Sparano should keep his job because he drafted Mallet despite 7-9, for example, this year. I can't blame the man. It's his butt on the chopping block. The Patriots coaching staff is in the exact opposite situation they can take the long term approach ( which is seems like they normally do ) because they know they are going to be around when the move pays off.
