What Happened to Gibson,Hartline??

"dolfan40 wrote:

Im really surprised especially Gibson was great last year...
Hartline doesnt get even 5 passes a Game...

But cool that Jarvis is our leading Wr...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/miamidolphins/statistics?team=MIA

This offense doesn't seem to fit their skill set. I'm a little surprised with Hartline. While he's not a physical receiver, he's always been a precise route runner. I figured he would adapt better than he did.

Here's what happened to Hartline: 36 catches, 374 yards, 4 TD, 8.0 yards/target. Wups, that's Chris Hogan's seasons.

..........................this is Brian's: 34 catches, 380 yards, 2 TD, 7.0 yards/target. My bad. Honest mix up. :blushing:

They both had season ending knee injuries.

The NFL is a fast game, and the margin of error is zero.

Hartline & Gibson weren't that fast to begin with. So even a slight loss of step can render them irrelevant.

And you can also ask what happened to Clay. I have no idea how an offense centered around the short passing game hasn't featured Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, and Charles Clay more than it has. If these guys aren't cut out for the short passing game, what are they cut out for? Nothing?

"Fins Hipster wrote:

And you can also ask what happened to Clay. I have no idea how an offense centered around the short passing game hasn't featured Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, and Charles Clay more than it has. If these guys aren't cut out for the short passing game, what are they cut out for? Nothing?

Charles Clay has been injured most of the season...

"ToddPhin wrote:

Here's what happened to Hartline: 36 catches, 374 yards, 4 TD, 8.0 yards/target. Wups, that's Chris Hogan's seasons.

..........................this is Brian's: 34 catches, 380 yards, 2 TD, 7.0 yards/target. My bad. Honest mix up. :blushing:

Ha!

Looks like the Hitman will be hitting free agency this year!

Bill Lazor happened

Wrote this in club but it applies here:

The narrative that Tannehill has grown up under Lazor is a fallacy.

Tannehill was on pace to have a great season last year until the collasal bed wetting the final two weeks. Let's not pretend that Tannehill was on the verge being replaced after 2013.....

From what I recall, under Sherman, Tannehill was far more effective distributing the ball around the field last year than he has this year. Hartline, Gibson and Matthews have been non factors this year.

"Bumrush wrote:

Wrote this in club but it applies here:

The narrative that Tannehill has grown up under Lazor is a fallacy.

Tannehill was on pace to have a great season last year until the collasal bed wetting the final two weeks. Let's not pretend that Tannehill was on the verge being replaced after 2013.....

From what I recall, under Sherman, Tannehill was far more effective distributing the ball around the field last year than he has this year. Hartline, Gibson and Matthews have been non factors this year.

Wrote this in the club and it applies here:

Many more players are involved this year. Despite 130 less passing attempts, 10 different players have 10 receptions or more, last year only 7 players hit that mark. We have 5 players this year with more than 30 receptions, just like last year (again, on less attempts).

Last year we had 3 players with 100+ targets (two over 134; Hartline and Wallace), which led to our top pass catchers having 76, 73, and 61 receptions. This year, it'll be unlikely that any more than two players hit 100 targets (Wallace and Landry), and our top 3 pass catchers will come out lower than last years (I'd bet there will be ~50 less attempts this year than last which will account for some of the difference).

I mean, just looking at the numbers (and watching the games backs up this sentiment IMO) I don't see how one could say Tannehill was more effective at spreading the ball last year. Also, Gibson was a non-factor last year after week 6 or 7 (whenever he got hurt), just like Matthews was a non-factor before Gibson got hurt. The one thing we're doing worse this year than last is passing down-field (and I don't mean deep passes), because our pass catchers as a group are averaging a full yard less per reception (1.1) than last year.

"ToddPhin wrote:

Here's what happened to Hartline: 36 catches, 374 yards, 4 TD, 8.0 yards/target. Wups, that's Chris Hogan's seasons.

..........................this is Brian's: 34 catches, 380 yards, 2 TD, 7.0 yards/target. My bad. Honest mix up. :blushing:

I don't think Hogan lines up outside, the better comparison would be Landry.

"brandon27 wrote:

Charles Clay has been injured most of the season...

Don't annoy these guys with facts... they have an agenda to propagate. :lol:

"Disgustipate wrote:

Bill Lazor happened

And, that's a good thing. A damn good thing. I hope he's here for years.

Best I see is that with Tannehill doing a lot more progression-based throwing this year, we're not really seeing any of those quick outs to Hartline. Over the last 2 years, that would be a designed play in which Hartline was the intended target pre-snap.

This season, the short stuff is coming about in a completely different way. We're putting guys in motion and hitting Landry out of the slot to pick up the 5-10 yard 1st downs. After that it's a lot of short stuff to the RB or the TE in the flat and underneath areas.

On the whole Tannehill seems to be reading the field post-snap from right-to-left, which would lead one to believe that Wallace is usually early in the progression and Hartline is generally late. Considering that our protection hasn't been wonderful this year, Tannehill is checking it down more than he is finding Hartline on the backside.

It's just a completely different offensive structure this year.

I think I'm most annoyed by the lack of Rishard Matthews seeing targets this year. It's probably that he's just not that good or just not getting the offense.

But here's the one guy on the roster that can do things no one else can. He's got a unique skillset (on this roster) that isn't being put to use.

For as much credit as Lazor gets, there's a lot of aspects in the passing game that were missed this year that most other teams have and that we even had last year. Both Hartline and Matthews targets at the perimeter have been almost null.

"Larry Little wrote:

And, that's a good thing. A damn good thing. I hope he's here for years.

I don't know why you would be so sold on Lazor. He's done a good job with matching the run game to the talent, but other than that?

"Larry Little wrote:

And, that's a good thing. A damn good thing. I hope he's here for years.

I'd really hold off on this praise. This is a copy cat league, and the last two weeks both the Jets and Ravens forced Miami to play in their little phone booth resulting in what was poor offense for 2 games straight. I'd be surprised if that didn't continue against the Pats this week.

Unfortunately, I think we finish the season once again with a 20th or worse ranked offense.

All the same problems this offense had last season have manifested themselves here in the past few weeks. He's hardly looked a significant upgrade over Sherman over that period

"Eop05 wrote:

I'd really hold off on this praise. This is a copy cat league, and the last two weeks both the Jets and Ravens forced Miami to play in their little phone booth resulting in what was poor offense for 2 games straight. I'd be surprised if that didn't continue against the Pats this week.

Unfortunately, I think we finish the season once again with a 20th or worse ranked offense.

All the same problems this offense had last season have manifested themselves here in the past few weeks. He's hardly looked a significant upgrade over Sherman over that period

See Branden Albert thread.

Gibson is no good. One of the most over rated players by people on this board.

"Disgustipate wrote:

I don't know why you would be so sold on Lazor. He's done a good job with matching the run game to the talent, but other than that?

Because I understand offensive and defensive schemes, I understand the offense Lazor has implemented, and I understand why the offense it isn't working as well as it could be. I understand what Lazor brings to this team and why he is head and shoulders better than any other OC we've had in a long, long time.

I am obsessed with understanding things. Much more so than venting or winning stupid arguments on internet forums. And I refuse to throw tantrums and throw crap against the wall whenever we lose like so many others here have. I want to understand... beyond 'so-and-so sucks'... why something did not work.

You want to understand why I'm sold on Lazor? Spend hours and hours pouring over the history and implementation of Kelly's zone read offense like I have. Then, you'd understand what Lazor is trying to accomplish with the offense, and why it hasn't worked at times.

Or, you can just take my word for it. Or you can think Lazor is terrible, I'm an idiot, and you can ignore me. I'm good either way. :wink2:

"Stitches wrote:

Wrote this in the club and it applies here:

Many more players are involved this year. Despite 130 less passing attempts, 10 different players have 10 receptions or more, last year only 7 players hit that mark. We have 5 players this year with more than 30 receptions, just like last year (again, on less attempts).

Last year we had 3 players with 100+ targets (two over 134; Hartline and Wallace), which led to our top pass catchers having 76, 73, and 61 receptions. This year, it'll be unlikely that any more than two players hit 100 targets (Wallace and Landry), and our top 3 pass catchers will come out lower than last years (I'd bet there will be ~50 less attempts this year than last which will account for some of the difference).

I mean, just looking at the numbers (and watching the games backs up this sentiment IMO) I don't see how one could say Tannehill was more effective at spreading the ball last year. Also, Gibson was a non-factor last year after week 6 or 7 (whenever he got hurt), just like Matthews was a non-factor before Gibson got hurt. The one thing we're doing worse this year than last is passing down-field (and I don't mean deep passes), because our pass catchers as a group are averaging a full yard less per reception (1.1) than last year.

Last year it felt like Tannehill was making the WR's and TE's around him better.. And getting larger chunk yardage plays.

Do you feel the same way this year? Which WR's look better because of Tannehill this year? Last year Hartline, Clay, Matthews and Gibson all seemed to play above what you would expect. Do all the stats back that up? Perhaps not. But the eye test, IMHO validates my original contention.

"Eop05 wrote:

I'd really hold off on this praise. This is a copy cat league, and the last two weeks both the Jets and Ravens forced Miami to play in their little phone booth resulting in what was poor offense for 2 games straight. I'd be surprised if that didn't continue against the Pats this week.

Unfortunately, I think we finish the season once again with a 20th or worse ranked offense.

All the same problems this offense had last season have manifested themselves here in the past few weeks. He's hardly looked a significant upgrade over Sherman over that period

I'm not holding back s***.

Lazor is a very good coach, and I'm convinced he's going to be great. If Albert, Moreno, and Clay stayed healthy, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You'd understand how good Lazor is.

"Bumrush wrote:

Wrote this in club but it applies here:

The narrative that Tannehill has grown up under Lazor is a fallacy.

Tannehill was on pace to have a great season last year until the collasal bed wetting the final two weeks. Let's not pretend that Tannehill was on the verge being replaced after 2013.....

From what I recall, under Sherman, Tannehill was far more effective distributing the ball around the field last year than he has this year. Hartline, Gibson and Matthews have been non factors this year.

Last year, Tannehill's top 3 targets received 64% of the passes. This year, that's down to 53%. It would seem like the ball is being distributed better this year.

"ToddPhin wrote:

Last year, Tannehill's top 3 targets received 64% of the passes. This year, that's down to 53%. It would seem like the ball is being distributed better this year.

Doesn't mean he is more effective. A lot of the balls are traveling less than 8 yards.

If you guys are seriously comparing Mike Sherman to Bill Lazor and coming up with Sherman being the better coordinator... you really have no clue about NFL offenses.