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Wes Weslker : Reshad Jones was a pick on guy

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Destroyer, May 30, 2016.

  1. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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  2. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Wow... no respect at all, from either of the guys talking there. :no:

    It was very easy to see that Reshad Jones was one of the top safeties in the NFL last year , we don't need anybody telling us otherwise.

    And LOL at Wes Welker saying "he must've improved a lot", as if he didn't even see the tape. Newsflash: young players improve, especially ones picked in the 5th round, they've got nowhere to go but up.
     
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  3. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    So when ex-Pats become commentators they must have to be pricks too? Seems to be the common theme here.
     
  4. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    I think Welker has always been a prick, nothing to do with being a paste
     
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  5. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    We spotlighted his talents and then sent him to the team he always wanted to play for. Yet he always seems to go delta-bravo on us in one way or another.
     
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah everyone loved Welker because in one game he punted, kicked a field goal, scored a passing TD all by himself (he threw it to himself) and even hit for the cycle, but as soon as he was traded he said he would envy the pats when we played them and wished he was on the other side.

    Sooooooooooo happy he never won a Super Bowl. All of the teams won after he left (well except us)
     
  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I didn't see much dissing going on there, Welker left the Pats after 2012, Jones had not come into his own until 2012, 2010 he was just a back up, 2011 he moved up into full time starter during the season, and Welker said that "he's obviously gotten better, and thats what you want from your young players to progress"(paraphrasing), and none of the guys said he didn't belong there.
     
  8. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Sounded like they all thought he didn't belong there to me. Welker didn't say "he obviously got better", he said he "must've improved a lot", implying that he didn't have the knowledge to say that he did, in fact, improve. Sounded like a backhanded compliment to me.
     
  9. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    We didn't watch the same clip.
     
  10. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What I got from it was that they thought Thomas deserved to be higher, none of them said Jones didn't belong.
     
  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    One too many shots to the dome, eh Welker?
     
  12. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    I can't wait for the day when concrete, airtight cheating evidence is revealed which will create 2 possible outcomes. One, it would be historically speaking, the death nail for that disgusting franchise & 2 main culprits(HC + QB). And two, all former pats* and potential talking head candidates will become sports pariahs.
     
  13. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    It's the CTE talking.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I bet such evidence, if it exists, hasn't been completely erased because it serves as leverage for the future (for someone at least).

    Thing is, if firm evidence of NE cheating in one of those SB years comes to light (that is, to the point where it's absolutely clear cheating led to a playoff or SB win), I can only see it happening if the target is the NFL, not NE. NFL had to be complicit in protecting their brand and there's no way NE was the only one that did something that would tarnish the NFL brand if things came to light.

    But just like tons of athletes get caught doping years later (just now you're hearing about those Russian Olympians from 8 years ago, and when will someone finally prove the Chinese cheated in Beijing?.. NO way they win that many golds without fancy doping), and just like top soccer teams had their championships annulled because they rigged games (best example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal), you never know.. NFL might be a target someday and maybe NE won't officially have 4 SB's when all is said and done (low probability, but there's precedence in sports!).
     
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  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I'm really not sure how much more evidence you need.

    After the Spygate investigation was complete, Belicheck was fined, $500,000 ,the maximum fine allowed by the NFL. The Patriot organization was fined an additional $250,000 and they lost their first round draft pick in that years draft. No one in the Patriots organization appealed the decision by the NFL, therefore they were admitting they cheated in this case.

    In regards to deflategate, the NFL determined Brady was aware the footballs were being deflated and that is why they suspended him for four games. The court system has gone back and forth on his involvement, but the NFL has already made their ruling. The Patriots organization lost another first round pick during this past draft due to the findings of the NFL in deflategate.

    So basically after two different investigation by the NFL, it was determined that the organization and certain individuals were guilty. So I really don't think there is any doubt, except by Patriot fans, that the Patriots were guilty of cheating in both these incidents. That is about as airtight as it going to get IMO.

    Patriot fans don't care about the cheating because in their view, every team cheats. They see this as part of the game and are upset that their team is being singled out for doing the same things other teams also do. All they care about is if their team is winning and if cheating helps their team win, they are okay with it.
     
  16. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    Is this guy high on Molly or something!?

    ... oh wait, that's right.
     
  17. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Welker will be remembered for the epic drop more than anything else. So reliable, until the most crucial moment of his career. We got the same out of D.Bess we could from Welker. The pats never missed him either. Slot guys are over -glorified, especially working with Qbs like Brady,Manning, even Tannehill etc. It's just a matter of volume.

    These comments demonstrate Wes's talents as a commentator... He's going to get by on his name, for only so long.
     
  18. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    But...Reshad WAS a guy you picked on...
     
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  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Bess wasn't nearly as good as Welker, imo. I think Welker is incredibly underrated by Dolphins fans, especially because he went to the Pats. Dude was a Pro Bowl receiver, and was one of the most consistent receivers while in his prime.

    I do agree that he benefited from volume in NE, but he got that volume because he was consistent, ran great routes, and moved the chains.
     
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  20. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Before wes joined the pats* they cheated their way to SBs. He then loses SBs with them. They cheat to get another one when he leaves. Joins DEN and loses another SB. They don't retain him and in that same season DEN wins the SB... hi wes.
     
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  21. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    His brain is mush. He should have a show with Heath Evans.
     
  22. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Wes always seems like he's a prize short of a Happy Meal.
     
  23. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    I'm sure reshad is losing loads of sleep over this.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  24. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I loved the trade, a second round pick for a slot receiver you take that anytime. but we ended up with Samson Satele..... Sigh
     
  25. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Ah, porn stache is still relevant? Aw that's cute.

    Give it five years.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would of been funny if he was there while welker was there today
     
  27. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I did not like the trade. You traded on of the best slot receivers in the game for a possible, maybe, might make the team guy. While Satele was not horrible for us, he was not Wes Welker pro bowler.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I didn't think Welker was picking on Reshad Jones. I thought the guy to his right was doing more damage to Reshad. Welker was just making the comment that Reshad has grown a lot because when he was with the Patriots they specifically targeted him to pick on him in coverage. And I have zero doubt that is true. That wasn't just when Reshad was a rookie, either. Reshad played against the Wes Welker Patriots for three years before Welker went to the Broncos in Reshad's fourth season.

    It'll be funny if Reshad digs that segment up now because it looks to me like Wes Welker is about to become a Dolphins coaching intern or something akin to it.
     
  29. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    yeah, things are about to get awkward.
     
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  30. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Meanwhile.. Harrison Smith..
     
  31. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If my memory serves me correctly, the Dolphins didn't structure the tender very well and ended up with the second pick because of the poison pill that we would have had to swallow if we would have kept him. So if you say you didn't like the trade then you were willing to eat that huge contract. Is that what you're saying?
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We had no choice. They signed him with a poison pill. In order to avoid a fight the teams did a trade. It was the 2nd and 7th or potentially nothing. But he was gone.

    NFL changed the rules because of that
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The NFL actually changed the rules because of the Minnesota-Seattle back and forth. That's when the poison pill thing reached a crescendo.

    Miami actually wanted to trade Wes Welker but they were trying to negotiate a better deal than just the 2nd round pick that was required by the 2nd round tender. They knew what they were doing when they put that 2nd round tender on him. They thought he was just a slot receiver, and that those are a dime a dozen.

    So Miami decided they would use their ability to match the RFA tender offer as leverage, telling New England that they've got to pony up more than that 2nd round pick if they want to prevent Miami matching the contract. At this point, the Seattle-Minnesota poison pill shenanigans had already happened and the owners had already agreed with the Commissioner to observe a moratorium on those clauses until they could more officially ban them in the next CBA. But when Miami tried to exercise its leverage to get better compensation from the Patriots, New England was going to go the nuclear option and use the poison pill anyway. That's when Goodell stepped in and basically forced both sides to agreement on a 2nd and 7th. If Miami did not want to trade Wes Welker they could have walked away from that negotiation at any time and said we don't want to trade him, and Goodell would've just swung the hammer at New England if they tried to insert a poison pill clause. The reason he arbitrated both sides is because both sides wanted to make the deal.
     
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  34. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think they valued him as much as the Patriots did and put a 2nd round tender so they wouldn't have to pay him. It wasn't that they were trying to trade him from the beginning. That's how I remember it. I could be wrong. Its happened one time before.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Dolphins had a trade price in mind for Wes Welker.

    They were not forced to part with a player they wanted to keep at all costs.
     
  36. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All players can be traded and not kept at all costs except maybe a handful of people. That's pretty much a straw man statement. Wes Walker was not ever in that category. He didn't play like he did for the Pats while he was here. He was a nice possession receiver but 67 receptions for 687 yards and one touchdown (his only TD for the 3 seasons he was with the Dolphins) doesn't say he was in the elite category. They were forced to part with him as the poison pill was going to be used. They wanted to keep him but it backfired. To imply that the Pats wouldn't have done it since it was something the league didn't want is somewhat questionable. Take a look at their history.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Dolphins knew exactly what they were doing with Wes Welker when they gave him a 2nd round tender, as the 2nd round tender was a new thing that came out only recently. They were absolutely not forced to lose a player. You're contradicting yourself claiming that the Patriots were going to do whatever they wanted to do with respect to poison pill, while suggesting the Dolphins obediently acquiesced to Goodell's forcing the Dolphins to trade Welker.

    There was no offer sheet. No offer sheet was given. There was no poison pill language the Dolphins had to evaluate. The result of the negotiations was a trade. Claiming that the Dolphins were forced to lose Welker is a specious argument.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    According to Welker's agent Vann McElroy, his previous efforts to contact the Dolphins looking for a contract extension were met with a total lack of interest. The Dolphins just didn't want the guy. They viewed the 2nd round tender as a potential way to capitalize on a limited talent special teams/slot receiver they had previously picked up off waivers.

    After the bad blood that developed between Seattle and Minnesota over the Steve Hutchinson (and then later, Nate Burleson) poison pill clauses, Roger Goodell attempted back in October 2006 to make poison pill clauses illegal. But he needed the agreement of the NFLPA and the NFLPA decided that if the NFL wants something they've got to give something in return, and the price they asked was too high. The negotiations went nowhere and Goodell (along with the owners, who overwhelmingly wanted to do away with poison pill clauses) decided to observe an internal moratorium on the clauses.

    Then that off season the Patriots and Vikings began negotiations with Wes Welker, a newly tendered 2nd round RFA that the Dolphins had no real intention of keeping (hence their spurning his agent every time he tried to talk about an extension with them). Vann McElroy floated some numbers out to the two teams and was surprised to realize the Patriots, not Rick Spielman's Vikings (remember it was Spielman who brought Welker to Miami) were the most interested party. The entire reason the Patriots even bothered to call the Dolphins to negotiate a deal instead of just going ahead with the poison pill contract was because Roger Goodell and Robert Kraft had (at that point in history) a very strong relationship and Kraft is very much a "team player" when it comes to ownership issues. Despite whatever you may try and say. So they respected the internal desire amongst owners not to engage in any more poison pill shenanigans and gave the Dolphins a call and asked if there was a price they could pay that was more than a 2nd round pick that would avoid the poison pill mess. As I recall the Dolphins asked for something significantly better than just the 2nd rounder, and Goodell kind of arbitrated that leverage grab at the same time as he arbitrated the Patriots.

    Considering the Dolphins shut down Welker's agent whenever he tried to talk about an extension, and considering they gave Welker the tender that most people considered to be the new tool you use primarily to discourage teams from poaching SPECIAL TEAMS and role players off your roster, to sit here and pretend the Dolphins really wanted to keep Welker and were forced by the poison pill and Roger Goodell is disingenuous.
     
  39. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To say they didn't want him at all is disingenuous. They wanted him but at the price they wanted him at. If they didn't want him they would have just cut him and not tendered him?

    Then when the Pats and Vikes came calling, they were going to match. In public they said they wanted to match. As I recall, then the "poison pill" was floated by NE to make sure they got him. Just because Goodell stepped in doesn't mean that they didn't have to have to swallow hard and just take the offer. It was better then the 2nd that they were only going to get because of the tender since they weren't going to match the floated poison pill. Would they have matched a "normal" contract, we'll never know. Would the Pats have included the poison pill (which was in play because they said it was) - we'll never know.

    They actually got great value for him. A guy off the waiver wire who hadn't really done that much his entire time in Miami to get a 2nd and 7th is pretty damn good. Its just now that revisionist fans see him being stolen since the Patriots actually had a QB and an offense that utilized his potential compared to anything that he had done in Miami in 3 seasons (not including you in that statement CKP).
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Welker actually did exactly what he did in Miami, in NE. Only difference was he caught 100+ balls in NE vs 60 balls in Miami. Basically the same per catch average, maybe utilized a little more in the red zone.
     

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