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We cannot end this debate once and for all." Blow it up"

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...-superdome-metrodome-fedex-field-oco/slide/10

    We as fans don't want this building for our team, were not inspired to come, we want to be a 12 th man, like both us and the canes used to have, we started this freakin game, and now others are capitalizing on the very thing we ran away from...Make it happen Ross and Garfinkel..

    And if you do, for the love of lord baby Jesus, do it right, like our canes and dolphins used to have..

    If you build it (with intimacy and intimidation)..they will come..


    Keeping it in the forefront of our owners consciousness...sorry.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  2. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know this is your mission, but I wouldn't go see a team, MY team, play because of the stadium they call home. If I lived there, I would have season tickets no matter what. I don't go for the stadium. I go because of the team. Sorry DJ, but I think it's just another excuse for some people to give on why others don't show up. Times have changed and so have a lot of people. It's more about ME, now, or just being seen.

    Now, I do get that it's easy to say this while I don't live there, but still.............
     
    Larryfinfan likes this.
  3. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    It's old and not getting any younger. The problem is, new stadium will suck too, because during the design process decision are made to save money taking away from fan comfort.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It doesn't matter between me and you, I would have season tickets if they played in a parking lot..not the point at all..

    If you don't think fans go to a stadium because of the energy inside or the lure of the venue, you are highly mistaken sir..

    If you read those links, you would understand times are changing ATL, it's a young people game, fan participation that is, we need to inspire our youth..

    The game of 12 the man is real...and whoever gets in on it correctly, is going to have a huge advantage for their team, the culture, and their pockets..
     
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  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We cannot let that happen if that time came, as fans we would have to stand up and be heard as to what we want..it can be so easily done, it's all in the blueprint and nothing else..

    It's kind of like a hybrid vehicle, they never had to be ugly, just a rearrangement of the body is all it took..doesn't cost extra to do that.

    The canes and dolphin fans would have to riot, protest, campaign, do everything possible to tell them what we want..and that is exactly what we had, and what made both cultures famous with an identity..
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In some ways I pity Ross, he bought the franchise and is saddled with a outdated stadium that has had 100's of millions poured into upgrades

    A bit like polishing the door knobs on the Titanic.
     
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I happen to have been going to games as a season ticket holder since this stadium was built by Joe Robbie. Before that, I was a season ticket holders for Dolphin and Hurricane games in the old Orange Bowl. Like you, I really have never cared about the stadium one way or the other. I have always gone to games because I am a fan and that has been the only reason.

    I will be moving out of South Florida at the end of next month, so I will miss going to watch my two favorite teams play. DJ and I have had several discussions concerning the need for another stadium or upgrades to the present stadium. I know that DJ feels improvements to the stadium are needed to improve the overall atmosphere at the stadium and also to improve the chances of South Florida getting more events, such as the Super Bowl game.

    I can't disagree with DJ that a better atmosphere would create more excitement in the stadium. It would also give the South Florida community a better chance at hosting large sporting events like the Super Bowl. I just don't know if getting a new stadium or a renovated stadium would increase attendance. I think the only thing that will bring more fans to the stadium is if the Dolphins start winning more games and become a consistent playoff team.

    The Marlins have the newest stadium in MLB at this time. When the stadium opened in 2012, crowds were larger in the beginning of the season than they had been at Sun Life Stadium the previous year. More fans showed up at first to watch the team, but most new fans went to see the new stadium. Once the Marlins showed they were not a very good team, fans quit going to the games, even though the stadium was less than a year old.

    In 2013, the Marlins once again had a terrible team and fans stayed away in droves. In fact the Marlins, even with a new stadium. had the third lowest attendance figures in MLB. So while a new or improved stadium may provide certain benefits to the organization and to the NFL, most fans in South Florida will only show up if the team is winning. Perhaps an improved atmosphere will create the excitement DJ feels it will and that will help the Dolphins become a more consistent winner on their home field.

    No matter where they are playing their games in the future. Whether it is at the present stadium, in a renovated or new stadium in South Florida, or even in another location somewhere else in the country, I will still be sitting in my home on the Island of Maui, rooting for them to win every game they play.
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His peeps obviously didn't have the street smarts to recognize the problems Pod..

    It was a major investment fail...but he has a chance to totally redeem himself, two fanbases, the Super Bowl committee, and his bank account..

    If your too stupid to know that you were stupid in the first place, and you still don't get it, then in this case, your just plain dumb.
     
  9. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sounds great DJ. Who do you propose pays for it? And how much will it cost?

    Until those questions are answered this is a pointless discussion
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's a synergy, a symbiotic relationship..
     
  11. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Hard for me to feel sorry for a guy who donated 160 million plus jast last year.I know it was a write off but he can do what ever he needs to do to make his product better.
     
  12. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I quit arguing with you regarding the stadium after we agreed to disagree. I certainly understand why you want a better home field and you have some valid reasons.

    I just know that the closer it gets to me and my wife moving out of South Florida, the more I realize that I am going to miss getting up on Saturday's and Sunday's , when the Hurricanes or Dolphins are playing at home and heading for the stadium to watch them play. It has always been about the teams for me, and never about the stadium. Hopefully a new or improved stadium will bring back the crowds and excitement I remember in the early years of the Dolphins and throughout the Marino years.
     
  13. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    This is a no brainer. There has to be perceived value. With the average fan experience $400.00 per game we wonder why people don't go. I can sit at the bar eat and drink like a king and not even come close to $400. If I want to be a king I stay home and every now and then yell "Honey can you grab me another". Hell there's even no wait at the bathroom and the seat is always clean:up:

    $10 cokes and $30 to park isn't going to get it done at least not with the product we are putting out.
     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 Rosen's Roughnecks Club Member

    I honestly believe they're only Tannehill/Wallace chemistry away from packing the stands every home game.
     
  15. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    the fans of course.......it's the NFL way
     
  16. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    New stadium would be amazing... but first I'd like to see the organization put a team together that can win consistently. That will help solve a lot of attendance issues.
     
  17. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    Certainly a lot easier to get the voters on board when you have a great product. We've struggled to reach above average
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    a joint investment group..Gather up some unique investors affiliated with both programs..lay out the plan of how the venue will make the money back, talk Super Bowl disses, talk 12 th man merchandise, and ticket sales, talk about culturistic Impact, talk exposure, talk future events, talk impact on the game, talk wins, talk about why both programs cultures have deteriorated since moving in, talk impact on both programs for the price of one.

    I think you can sacrifice some bells and whistles and get it done for 750-800 million...Jerry's world is absolutely not the blueprint..

    Like the NFL predicts in that video...the new wave of getting fans to the stadium is thru intimacy and crowd participation..not fu&&in wifi capability and devices..( that's why I know Ross is clueless)

    This is what I've been saying for a very long time...Seattle has a very smart owner...it's not rocket science Schmoot, it can be done with the right visionaries, hell they don't even have to be visionaries, the model is already out there, the buzz is happening, and we, sunlife, is on the opposite side of that spectrum..it's a severe disadvantage..on many levels..

    It's all right there, the problem with the suits is they don't understand how it can make the money back on the investment just from building it correctly and the derivative affects that will have on the cash coming in, and they don't truly believe how it can impact the home teams performance..
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fu&$ the voters, it's a measley 200 mill...
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Asking the majority to understand the disadvantage currently relative to the advantage a correctly built one would do for both programs, is too much for them to process..it would fail, it's already failed, the majority will never get it..

    Really it's not necessary for them to be involved..this can get done by investors from both programs..

    Ross would have to be able to take the hit on sunlife, the hit on his overall dolphin net worth, temporarily, and then be able to see how the new stadium if done right would bring it back up, and over...it's a no brainer home run..
     
  21. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Agreed.

    For the record:

    The Dolphins took two key steps to improve their finances. The team sold the naming rights to their stadium to insurer Sun Life for $4 million a year (an additional $1.5 million a year from the deal is paid to charities), replacing the temporary, soft-dollar deal it had with Jimmy Buffett's Land Shark Lager. More importantly, the Dolphins refinanced $235 million of stadium debt in a deal that includes a $159 million letter of credit that backs taxable municipal bonds sold through a government conduit but for which the stadium corporation is responsible. The deal, arranged by Goldman Sachs, contained a credit reserve that is significantly bigger than it otherwise would have been to account for the possibility of a work stoppage in 2011.


    Miami Dolphins

    Team Value1
    $1,074 M

    Team Value calculated August 2013
    Follow (2)
    At a Glance

    Owner: Stephen Ross
    Championships: 2
    Price Paid: $1100 M
    Year Purchased: 2008
    Revenue2 : $268 M
    Operating Income3 : $24.8 M
    Debt/Value4 : 36%
    Player Expenses5 : $137 M
    Gate Receipts6 : $53 M
    Wins-to-player cost ratio7 : 87
    Revenue per Fan8 : $18
    Metro Area Population: 5.8 M

    Forbes Lists
    #16 NFL Team Valuations
    Numbers
    Valuation Breakdown

    Sport9
    $722 M
    Market10
    $152 M
    Stadium11
    $145 M
    Brand12
    $58 M



    The Miami Dolphins went 7-9 last season, and Sun Life Stadium was the emptiest venue in the NFL by stadium capacity. The team was on the verge of signing a deal in May with state and local officials to give the stadium a $350 million facelift, but the agreement fell apart at the last minute—leaving the future of the team in question. The mayor of Miami-Dade county had agreed to a deal that would have raised hotel taxes to partially pay for stadium upgrades, but the state legislators tuned the proposal down. The deal’s collapse deflated Miami’s hopes of hosting the Super Bowl in 2016, which was given to the San Francisco 49ers new Levi’s Stadium instead. When asked whether the Dolphins would consider moving 70 miles north to Palm Beach, Dolphins CEO Mike Dee told the Miami Herald the team is “open minded to all long-term solutions.”
     
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  22. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Wha???

    NFL teams RARELY pop up for sale. If you want one... you better jump on your first opportunity b/c there's no telling when another one will be up for sale. Plus, the odds of one becoming for sale without any blemishes is extremely unlikely.

    To call the Fins a "major investment fail" is flat out absurd. There's no way you could justify that statement. Fact is, he's making money so right there it can't be called a failure of an investment. Plus,it's more than strictly a business investment. It's a toy. Ross has more money than he knows what to do with... and wanted one of the coolest and rarest toys out there... an NFL team.

    That's was teams are for the majority of the owners in the NFL. A badass toy. And he's one of only 32 men on the planet that owns one. Oh, and it happens to make him money as well...

    We'll see about the stadium DJ. The economy won't be in the ****ter forever... and the sting from the Marlins burn will eventually fade. With team success and more support for the team in general... I'm sure a new stadium will come eventually...
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you didn't read that correctly, I'm talking about buying the dolphins with that stadium involved was and is, an investment sieve, as in that building is costing this owner a lot of money, and he didn't have the vision beforehand to understand why that would be the case..

    He still doesn't understand what I'm talking about because he's trying to put lipstick on a pig..

    He's failing relatively speaking because he isn't doing what I, and now the NFL is projecting...every year that goes by he's hurting the teams , the fanbases, and his bank account, every year that goes by could be a year of making money on the concept I'm talking about...

    There should be a committee right now exploring this concept and getting rid of sunlife..

    You know what's really funny...is that me and only a few folks are excited about this concept...how fu@&ed up is that, there is a concrete way to get a real home field advantage, help two of our favorite teams locally at the same time, get superbowls back, help the teams win games, and make money, and all people want to do is ***** at me for talking about it..

    There is something wrong with that..
     
  24. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    The stadium isn't a sieve b/c it's already paid off DJ. Maybe it's not allowing maximum profits... but it's not a sieve.
     
  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Stadium is not paid off.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
     
  26. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    No? What are we still paying off... the expansion?

    Regardless... buying the Fins w/o buying the stadium was never ever going to be an option. Again, if you want the team, you had to take the stadium. And owning the team was worth it...
     
  27. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    They're still 230 million in debt from the last time the place was renovated.
     
  28. As long as it is funded privately then I have no objections

    Count me out if it involves public funding
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    if you believed In the concept, you really wouldn't care if some of the money was publicly funded..Money spent will be money earned..

    And if the owners and suits understood it,they wouldn't ask the public..they'd just do it.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lets do the math..250 million + 400 mill = 600 million..

    There's almost your new OB2 right there...it's criminally blind vision..it's a joke..it's a sieve.
     
  31. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    600 million is enough you think ? all these new stadiums seem to be in the range of 1.2 B
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Almost I said..I def think you can build a smaller more intimate stadium, one that is blueprint specific to create a true home field advantage and get the fans as close to the players as legally and structurally possible for less than a billion..
     
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  33. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    without knowing the atmosphere , but what you think of that new Levi´s Stadium for the 49ers ?
     
  34. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are now..........off the committee....:tongue2:

    MAYBE...........that's why the numbers don't add up to you..........new math, maybe?:wink2:

    Just messin with you DJ
     
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  35. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If a new stadium was to be built with the idea it would also attract SB's and other big sporting events. I just don't think a smaller stadium would meet that criteria. I think the NFL would want the stadium to hold at least 70,000 plus fans and to build a stadium which holds that many fans today. It will cost well over a billion dollars. The final cost estimate for the new Marlins stadium, which only seats around 37,000, by the time the final payment is made on the stadium in 2048 is close to 1.1 billion dollars.

    So a stadium costing $600 million dollars in South Florida would hardly be the type of stadium which would be of interest to the NFL when it comes to having a SB in this area. I think a cost of over 1.5 billion dollars is more realistic if the Dolphins are to get the type of stadium which will also bring larger sporting events to this area. The cost of the new stadium for the Giants and Jets is estimated at nearly 1.7 billion dollars. I just don't see a new stadium in South Florida costing much less than that stadium.
     
  36. The concept of corporate welfare for an entertainment product???

    No thanks I will pass on that one.
     
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  37. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    600mil ain't buying a new stadium DJ. That's probably half of one, esp considering if a new stadium is built, it's probably going to have a retractable roof of some sort (ala the Marlins stadium). And don't count the 250mil b/c that was done years ago before the current owner...
     
  38. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Metlife Stadium cost 1.6 billion dollars to build, and I like to old meadowlands better!
     

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