and one's that don't look for the end zone don't either If he didn't wanna get hit, he shouldn't have cashed the check. This is a contact sport
I've said this several times and I'll say it again. The 1984 NBA draft went like this: 1. Hakeem Olajuan - Houston Rockets 2. Sam Bowie - Portland Trailblazers 3. Michael Jordan - Chicago Bulls The 2008 NFL Draft: 1. Jake Long - Miami 2. Chris Long - Rams 3. Matt Ryan - Atlanta Jordan is better than Hakeem and I believe Ryan is better than Long. However, Hakeem was a top 50 player in NBA history with 2 rings. One could argue that Houston shoulda taken MJ, but they still had a great player. At least we didn't take Chris Long or Vernon Gholston!
Are you suggesting Ginn doesn't look for the end zone? Because he has more TDs than the "better" WRs on this team. And he gets hit plenty, though not as much as David Martin last year.
No more amazing than the way ppl go outta their way to protect him from any criticism. Oh and btw....the media must hate him as well cuz they're questioning him too and for the same reasons. Still waiting for him and his family to give us their all
Ted Ginn's first instinct is to avoid contact, when he should be thinking about getting more yards and finding the end zone. And since the TV guys are starting to point this out as well, just maybe.....maybe......there's something to it
Just to further add to your post, I think its unfair for either Matt Ryan or Jake Long to be proclaimed either the "franchise" or a "bust" at this point. It is just way too early. You make great points about the players around Ryan making his job easier though, specifically the O-line and his receivers. Not to take anything away from what Ryan has accomplished in his short career, but well it's only been 17 games, lets see what happens. And as far as looking back in 10 years about who was the better pick, whether we were right or wrong, people make mistakes. I don't believe that our FO is perfect, but unlike a lot of other organizations, I feel ours has that desire to correct their mistakes, and right their wrongs. You can tell Tony Sparano is the kind of guy you want as your head coach, the guy never stops trying to make us a better football team.
where to begin with you. Ginn is far and away the teams BEST playmaker. If Ginn got injured no defense would respect the passing game. Outside of Ginn who on this roster is capable of striking fear? We saw in the Falcons game if White doesn't overthrow Ginn by about 15 yards thats 6 points. One thing I noticed this year with Ginn is he is playing aggressive going after the ball. Yes he shy's from contact but I'm glad don't want him going down.
I think you can make that argument for Davone Bess as well. He is a great possession receiver, and he always finds a way to get open, and get the first down.
Ok, I will defer to the amazing inside knowledge that one must have about Ted Ginn's inner thoughts and instincts to make such a claim.
I just read this post and realized I said the samething either way though, glad to see someone else is on the same page.
Because Brady Quinn and his lifetime supply of Subway and Myoplex is clearly the route we should have taken according to the media... he's really lit it up in the NFL. It just amazes me that we're out here questioning everything after one game. I know everyone has an opinion and is well entitled to it... but this is getting worse than the Bears fans over here who think their season is over after losing a close game to the Packers at Lambeau...
Losing the first game is awfully painful, but it troubles me that "We" no longer trust the Coaching staff to iron things out. Big Jake is as talented as they come, he'll be fine.
I think if you go back and re-read my post NolePhin, you'll see you were the one I was quoting dude... It's all good bro!
Potentially the best play maker....right now all u can get out of him is hoping that he catches a ball while he's behind the defense. Otherwise he's mapping the ground for a place to hide as soon he catches a pass. Hardly the stuff of play makers. Personally I think given our situation, we'd get more out of Cam, Bess and Hartline in the line up.
At the back of the kicking team's endzone... As with any player, it takes two or three games to have a feel for how they will do at a given job unless they are just terrible.
But to be consistently good as KR.....you have to catch the ball, decide the path you're going to take and hit stride with reckless abandon. Honestly?.....Teddy Ginn, reckless abandon?......come on man.lol
Well that would be aqua colored optimism if Ginn hadn't been so good at kick returns in 2007, to me "if" Ginn is ever to be good player he will show enough pride to do a good job at returns going forward. If not, then critics will have a legit beef about him as the one area his athleticism should shine is on returns.
He has been known as "that guy who we drafted over Quinn" to the media since he got here. He's received constant criticism since arriving. If you think that Quinn has nothing to do with Ginn, then you're crazy. How has he earned the criticism? It's not his fault Pennington doesn't always look his way. I've seen him get open while at the Kansas City game and there was someone at Sunday's game who said Ginn and pretty much all receivers were getting great separation... Pennington was just playing hesitant.
While I agree for the most part with you on this, his athleticism will only go so far if he is getting hit at the 12 and 15 yard line on each return.
Quite simply, the Dolphins didn't play to Long's strengths in run blocking. He probably passed blocked better last season than many folks thought he would. The unique thing about a bull rush is that it often causes the bigger guy to be off balance. In martial arts we are told to cause/push the body to move in 30 degree angles and it absolutely negates the power of the person. Bigger, stronger, doesn't matter. If you can cause a person to move in a 30 degree angle it negates all that. I noticed that happened when Abraham bull rushed Long. You could say it was basically physics. IN a straight up run block, Long with proper leverage could drive a guy like Abraham out of the way. As I said before, given the fact the running game was used very little, the game calls really didn't give Long much chance to show his strengths.
This may get lost in the thread but can anyone see a similarity between Sunday and what is in this piece? Seeing as we’ve been debating J. Long back and forth I thought I’d weigh in with my analysis after re watching some highlights of him. I know you’ve all been waiting for this one, I can feel it. Or, is that the “oh man, here he goes again” thing? Obviously I am not an expert at this but here’s what I have seen from watching this stuff again. Jake Long has worked very hard to get to this point I will say that about him. Jake has obviously practiced for many hours trying to get better at his kick slide, hand placement, recognizing defenses and all of the things necessary to be considered for the top of the Draft. His work ethic is unquestioned, and there is no secret as to why. That trait; dedication will serve him well in the NFL. If the Draft were based solely on work ethic, desire and willingness to sell out, J. long would be on a very short list. Now on to his style of play; Jake will never win any dance competitions unfortunately. But he will maul you to death if you let him. Honestly, after watching this guy, he really is an engulfing tackle, not a technician. He has worked very hard, you can see that and he is technically proficient. However, he is not so technically sound as say Chris Williams (mind you Williams has better feet). Some may see that previous statement as contradictory, but it isn’t. Being technically proficient at something doesn’t mean you are a technician/mirror/chess match type player. It simply means to me at least, that you have practiced until you are very well rehearsed, and comfortable. A technician doesn’t kill himself to do the job at LT, it comes much more naturally. Other guys have to use all out effort and will to play the position, and to me that’s Jake. Basically I’m saying that Jake isn’t the type of guy that will wow you with athleticism, but he doesn’t underwhelm you either. Jake prefers to get his hands on you, and manipulate you, almost to a fault. It will cause him to rely on his arm length and hand punch too much, which in turn causes him to overextend and bend at the waist, which leaves him off balance. When he does that, is when he appears at his worst; flat-footed and lunging. Jake also has a big hitch in his kick slide. If you watch tape of Long against Florida in the Bowl game you wil see Jake is routinely the fastest man off the line in pass pro. He is busting his *** to get back there. His first two steps are fast and furious, after that he tries to really set himself up to absorb the defender. Here is where Jake’s work ethic and maturity etc. come into it IMO, he’s obviously been watching tape and seen that the DE’s he’s facing are gonna getup the field. It also looks as though the game plan is not to leave Henne back there forever. That is the good part about his kick slide, when he really buckles down and busts his *** to get back there he can do it, and be in the right spot. However, the bad part is that Jake routinely has to bust his *** to get back there. He relies on hustle and effort and practice to get there, not sheer athleticism. Chris Williams for instance doesn’t exert himself in nearly the same way to take those first two steps, he seems much more effortless. Also, Long has a habit of moving laterally on his kick slide rather than at an angle. It is almost like he is so intent on getting out of his stance in pass pro that he blanks out for a second. He just pushes off so hard with his inside foot that he goes outward instead of backward at an angle. It’s like his hustle is working against him. This is why sometimes being a hustle guy is a problem. Now you might say what is wrong with having to be a guy who lives on hustle, and effort? Let me put it this way, ever watch the guys who are the DE/OLB tweeners at the Combine do the LB drills? Most of the guys are really bustin’ it to get back in their drop backs and their arms are outside of their body, and they tend to get too tall. When you are too tall, your center of gravity is out of position to allow you to move laterally or horizontally (forward and back, I think the term applies here). It’s just a matter of physics. That’s the problem I see with Jake; he is so intent on getting back there, pushing off and driving back that he tries too hard. His arms can come outside of his frame, and he can be a little “out of control”. I say that for lack of a better term, he’s just off balance, and if he does that he relies on those arms of his and he reaches, and so on and so forth. Now, every OT gets off balance, or isn’t perfect in their drop into pass pro, but the problem Jake faces is that he is just not as naturally athletic as he needs to be. If you compared him to Joe Thomas last year, Thomas’s feet are much more nimble, allowing him to get himself back in front of his man on a more consistent basis. Thomas was the reverse of Long really, he is much more of a technician, and somewhat softer in his approach. Thomas would wall you off in the run game far more than Jake will ever do. If Jake gets the chance to drive block you, he is salivating. He wants to mix it up, manipulate you with his hands and frustrate you with his reach. An example of Jake’s hustle getting him into trouble; is the play you see all the time where Gholston comes on the inside and gets to Henne. On that play, watch Long, I mean really watch him. If you took that one play and compared it to most in the Florida game you’d see a massive difference. On that play Long is so intent on getting out of his stance that he moves laterally rather than dropping back at an angle. After his first step he has given up the inside. The split between Long and the LG is like a running play rather than a pass. All Gholston did was to take the path of least resistance. It was like Long was so intent on getting back that he didn’t even see Gholston, Jake never even noticed by the time he took his second step he was dead, and then he saw what was happening and tried to react. The problem was, Long had taken himself out of the play from the start. To me that “Charlie Hustle” killed him there. To be honest, that’s the price you pay for having a guy like that. He will try so hard sometimes that he actually takes himself right out of plays. IMO you could expect the same from Chris Long, where he goes so fast that he actually runs by the play. It happens, but you live with it because the guy is busting his *** out there, and you know it. Jake Long can play LT, in the right system. Mike Martz won’t be calling, but Bill Cowher would love to talk to him. The question with Jake is will he be a good LT or a great one. Honestly I don’t think he will ever be great. Will he be a guy to give maximum effort and sell out? Yeah, in a heartbeat,…..will he wow you with his mirror ability no. Does Flozell Adams, or Vernon Carey? I mention those names because to me they are both engulfing LT’s. They are much happier to beat the crap out of you in a slugging match. They don’t want to hand fight, dance or adjust. They want to lock up on you and use their size, and strength to control you, If they get in front of you, it’s really over. You won’t push them back, and you’ll get controlled. That is what Jake Long is to me, an engulfing LT. The problem I have is that engulfing LT’s are rarely considered the best player in the Draft. Technicians on the other hand are often considered.
Ah, but that is what I love about Athletic players, keep feeding them the ball and they will make something happen sooner or later, Ginn has worldclass speed, sooner or later he will bust one if he takes pride in his craft. If his returns begin looking like "merge left" or "merge right signs" toward the sidelines then the story will have been somewhat written about Ted Ginn.
I think some may say that Ryan Clady was/is the better left tackle...not saying he should have been our number 1 pick. At 14.75 million for 5 years and 11.5 million guaranteed.He had 1/2(one half) of a sack credited against him with only 3 penalties all season and a pro bowl. As far as I and plenty of other people Jake Long was NOT the best left tackle taken in the draft plus Long makes almost in a season what Clady will make in 5 years!! I think one can figure who the better value is
He had some moments when he shined, but I can't see how he was ever that good at returning kicks. He's just not consistent enough...I mean look how many times the coaches have tried him at the spot and just keep yanking him
I saw a bit of what you noticed in 08 Conu, but to be honest the whole offense looked sluggish which to me is a Coaching/Preparation issue. Long's lack of performance is partially due to Sparano going overboard with 2 a days, and as a test for that, Jake will lock Freeney down on the first offensive series because he will have his normal legs back, if not, then there is a technique issue. tired players fall back to sloppy technique.
Thank you. I would like to call people's attention his hand placement on many ocassions last Sunday. Often he ended up with his hands at his waist when he was dropping back, leading to him getting his hands on the torso of the defender. That is never a good recipe, and we saw what happens. His width in his kickslide was also an issue. Last year, his hands were much higher and he was more vertical. During the game on Sunday when he was more technically sound he did quite well to shut down his man. When Jake dropped back more vertically, he did well IMO.
Well the media isn't on this forum debating this topic and since no one but yourself has mentioned him, I don't see the relevance. Ginn's flaws have nothing to do with the guy some ppl think we should have drafted instead.. While it's true that Ginn's been under fire from day one and Camoron didn't any by reaching for him at #9 and giving the infamous "family speech".........if Ginn would quit playing like he should be wearing a skirt, he could easily shut some of us up;]
He led the AFC in return yardage and was a pro bowl alternate on a 1-15 team. In 08 however, he clearly slumped, in 09 we will see what he has or does not have.
I have to wonder if all of this sluggish talk is people getting tricked by the black shoes. Black shoes make people look like they are moving slower than they really are. Like when the Ravens play in all black, they look like they aren't moving fast, but they are. His technique was just awful. He tried too hard and he got out of whack. He must trust his technique and get his hands working again. His best trait is his hands, not his feet.
