It's not how I would go, but I don't thinkt that it's all that bad. Richardson is a talent who would bring speed to the defense, but DT isn't my preference. I love Watson at RT if Long bolts, with Marting going to LT, and Woods is a good receiver but not one of my favorites. Poyer is a good corner, Pugh is supposedly a good OL but I'm not familiar with him. Gholston is fast for his size and can track down from the back side, but he's yet another DE who doesn't show enough at his primary function, beating OTs 1 on 1 at the LOS. That matters a lot more to me than lateral pursuit. I like Charlie Campbell more than Walter on that site- he lost me when he went all in for Jimmy Claussen a few years back, calling from the mountain top for him to be the #1 overall pick. Just not a fan of his mocks in general.
TBH, my view of this draft is it is shallow and some DE's are being overrated, guys who don't really have the quicks but are decent all around, DT's who have physical tools but are not exactly Reggie White like etc No dominant type Running Backs or Wr's, Te class looks somewhat thin as well. Reminds me a lot of 2009 tbh, no great Qb prospects, middling talent at positions we need. Suspect Warmack will be a All Pro type
You could do worse than Richardson, Watson, Woods and Poyer. Not my preferences, but it really isn't all that bad. Gholston has compelling speed for such a big DE, bit as I mentioned earlier there are certainly questions about him imo.
To me it is simply b/c while they are good prospects, they are not what I'd consider "elite' type prospects. This draft is very shallow in that category aside from..offensive line..compare say the 07 draft vs today and the 2013 class is not even close to that quality imo.
When you consider the talent Miami left on the board during Miami's picks, this draft is about as bad as it gets.
They also had Pugh as the 3b pick, so 2 OL in the top 5 isn't what I'd want, depending on free agency. I like their previous draft a little better, Sharrif Floyd, Barrett Jones, Jamar Taylor, Jordan Reed, Stedman Bailey, and Justin Pugh. Though they covered nearly the same positions just different names.
Charlie Campbell's last mock draft was IMO, a little better than Walter's too. 1. Floyd 2a. Ertz 2b. Rhodes 3a. Pugh 3b. Bailey 4. John Simon Not very likely Rhodes falls to our 2b pick though.
Well, from that perspective of who is on the board , my preferences: 1. Dion Jordan/Jarvis Jones/Alec Ogletree 2. Menelik Watson (love it if Long bolts)/Xavier Rhodes/Tyler Eifert/Stedman Bailey 2. Marcus Wheaton/Corey Lemonier (I like Datone Jones, but not as a fir right now) 3. Da'Rick Rogers/Tank Carradine (maybe Gavin Escobar, but that's on reputation, I don't know enough)/Sean Porter That's just going through what was listed for easy reference- I like AJ Klein but not so sure about the 4th rd, maybe a bit high- good player, though. Same for Marquess Wilson.
He is the one player that I'm confident will be an "elite" type, otherwise I'm not seeing to much of that in this draft class. Star, could be, otherwise none of these guys are really jumping out at me, though I do suspect Keenan Allen will be better than people think he will be atm.
Campbell imo is consistently better than Walter. John Simon is interesting, relentless, but size challenged and the the athlete of say a Rob Ninmkovih to project to LB.
Sheldon Richardson is a blue chip player, guess folks are still sleepin on it..can anyone tell me another 300lb football player that can line up at outside linebacker and drop into coverage.?
This. When I looked at this draft at first, I said "Well, honestly, that's not too bad!" even though I'm not a Robert Woods fan whatsoever. Then I went back to see who was available instead. Yeah, wow, if Miami passed on Wheaton for Woods and Jones for Pugh, I'd be kinda sick.
That'd be the worlds greatest draft, both from a needs point of view and a value-per-pick point of view. Like Ireland should be extended 5 years immediately type of draft. Using this as a metric (I know, by no means a science) http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/21703458/nfl-draft-top-100-draft-board You're getting #7, #14, #24, #72, #80, and a guy >#100. That's insane value. I'm biased though, I have Bailey as a top 64 player, while they have him around #72. That's like 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders using a 1,2,2,3,3. That's.... just insane. Throw in a signing of Greg Jennings and Hartline and my god we've got ourselves a Madden off-season but in real life. What do you do with Bess, though? You dont keep him and Bailey on the same team long term. Do you try to trade him for value? What could you get? a 4th in 2014?
The Richardson pick isn't bad, but one of his reasons for it shows his depth of knowledge on the Dolphins, "the Miami Herald recently suggested that Odrick will be traded"...well, no they didn't, Armando in his self-appointed blog role as GM in waiting said that he would put him on the trade block. I haven't read anything from the Dolphins, rumour or not, saying that they think the same.
IMO it's unlikely that we go into a draft seeking playmakers and only get one offensive playmaker in the first five picks. And then choose one that isn't particularly explosive.
the point I'm trying to make is he wouldn't be like drafting your typical dtackle, like Dion Jordan, he's special, and he might be the best def end out of the bunch with his size/agility ration..very diverse players, can move them all around.
The problem with Jordan is that he tends to turn the corner like the QEII when trying to get around OTs- a common theme this year as per DEs who who had problems getting stonewalled, at least from what I've seen- cases in point Moore, Ansah, Jones and Gholston. I like Jordan, he's long, lean, fast, aggressive and uses leverage well. I like his movement and how he drops into coverage- I think that he's better suited for OLB to attack and pursue as opposed to getting locked up with a succession of 300 plus pound OTs. I still like him, would definitely consider him at #12. With all these DEs, buyer beware.
I'm really not understanding the Moore love to be honest. I just don't see him as this elite pass rusher. I think he'll really really struggle to get off NFL caliber OT blocks.
Watch some tape of him and you'll see, at least I did. Really good strength/use of leverage to violently dispose of a blocker in the first clip at :07, then it's u-turn time for the QEII at :15. I don't want to spend the time going through all the clips again to point out other examples, but there are plenty there iirc. Very intriguing talent, questionable at beating OTs from a hand on the ground DE position and getting to QBs 1 on 1. As I said, better suited for OLB imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JATMzVLBA0
He'll be a good player, the thing with Moore is you don't draft him for 2013 production, his development is what you are betting on when you take him, but I wouldn't touch him to mid rd #2 at the earliest b/c he is a developmental guy. He has nice length, the sort of frame that can easily add 20 pds, great motor etc
I see him as more of a ready to go prospect as opposed to a development kind of guy- in terms of players to develop I'd look at Dion Jordan and especially Ansah, who is basically a skilless pass rusher getting by on talent- that's a good thing and a bad thing imo, depends on how you look at it. Personally, that bothers me quite a bit.
Ahh, I get it now. I did not know what the QEII was. Don't spend much time around cruise ships. Thank you sir. Bpk said Moore corners only as bad as a stretch limo, so Jordan compared to a giant ship must corner worse.
I don't see enough there to convince me Jordan can't turn the corner. There are plenty of other examples in other games where he did. He also can change directions on a dime and eats up ground in backside pursuit as well as anyone could ever hope for. IMO. He is physically and skill set wise very similar to Jason Taylor coming out of Dayton in 1997.
I think that CK said it best a while ago- it's not that he can't, it's that he doesn't do it enough. As to Moore, I think that he bends the arc much better, more regularly. There have been some good points made about him getting stonewalled vs UF (Nixon) and Alabama (Fluker, et al including the mongo TEs) but I'm not going to judge him on just two of his bad games. I like him, but there is some concern there. He's not the most explosive guy- smooth and a good pass rusher, but about halfway between the very quick Lemonier and the more pedestrian Okafor. Again, I like Moore, but at the same time I'd like to see more explosion and less getting tied up with the OTs. Not the quickest guy for OLB, and in a 4/3 I'd much rather have Sean Porter than Moore at OLB.
As to Jason Taylor, imo that's what Jordan has to prove, that he can do it. Taylor was something of an anomaly, a post modern 6-6 240 or so lb guy who could get it done vs OTs 60 lbs or more heavier. Like Charles Barkley rebounding like a maniac at 6-4.75- a rarity. I cringed when Taylor went up against and got abused by Tony Boselli in his prime- Jordan has to show that a thin guy like him can get it done. Bigger, more muscular arms than i originally thought, but 6-7 is a lot of body for 24 0 lbs. or watever weight he actually is. He probably tried to pack on quite a few "good" pounds before the combine this week, should be interesting.
Thing is, with Moore, Jordan and Mingo, you have tall, athletic players who really don't know how to use leverage very well. the gamble is they will learn how to use it on the job. If you look at JT's early career you see the same sort of learning curve, but once he learned to couple that leverage with his speed he was a dominant player. Downside is any one of them could turn into Jarvis Moss, a guy who just never developed.
I have no idea why you would say that Jordan doesn't know how to use leverage well- he sure does to me on tape.
Oh I do, Jordan rarely had to whip a tackle or guard one on one then rush the passer, he'll beat a rb or Te all day. I did not see the JT like stiff arm with power, move feet past tackle with speed.
Jordan is also likely stronger right now than Taylor was in Feb 1997. JT added a lot of strength after he got into the NFL. JT really regressed in his 3rd season, and I remember wondering if he'd ever be anything more than fair to middling as an NFL DE. Then the upward spiral really took off in 2000.
It is not fair to compare Jordan now to Taylor when he was an established star. He compares VERY well to JT when he was coming out of college. Maybe someone can find some tape of Taylor as a senior at Dayton.
IIRC though, JT really injured his back in maybe 98? Also seem to recall JT was probably bigger than Jordan is when he first came into the league?
