The Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, says that the vastness of the universe means it is possible there could be other forms of life outside Earth, even intelligent ones. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90KSE100&show_article=1
Why would it not be??? The canonical literature of the church says nothing of God creating/not creating other planets capable of sustaining life or even creating life on other planets. It only strictly deals with the creation of the universe, and then subsequently, earth and it's environs. There is nothing (to my knowledge) at this point in time that could lead anyone to say, "There is no other life in the universe." It is far too vast, and our knowledge is dwarfed by our lack of understanding, as the good Rev. Funes has pointed out. I have never been one to accuse the Catholic Church of thinking logically, but it appears they are doing so in this case. Bravo for them.
Uncle Pagan is amazed that people still look to the Vatican to tell them what and what not to believe.
Because if a person is that much of a sheep that he or she needs a human appointed figure to tell them what's real and what isn't instead of thinking for themselves, they should just throw themselves in front of the next crosstown bus and hasten the inevitable.
The bible does not say that there are any life forms outside earth. It also does not say that there is. It does relate to us as a unique and special creation which would lead one to think that we are alone and unique and special etc..... The Catholic Church can keep an open mind on the matter, but they have gotten it wrong on so many occasion in the past, I wouldn't bet on them having it right this time. Just my .02
Shrug. That's your opinion, but don't be so arrogant as to assume that you hold the only way of looking at religious issues.
You mean like being arrogant enough to tell a whole populace what to believe? Yes it's my opinion. You don't like it, don't read it bro. That's the beauty of message boards. Either that, or counter it with something of substance. Calling me arrogant is ignorant. I stated what I believe, just like anyone else states what they believe. Don't put words in my mouth....or be arrogant enough to assume you know my intent. Shrug.
Well, I don't believe in their version of god, so I don't believe he has any divine authority. HE, though, probably does believe that. I don't know if that's arrogant or not...I believe he's mistaken and guilty of the same wishful thinking that most people are. But I don't blame people for believing what they want to believe any more than I fault you for believing in pagan gods. I find both equally unlikely.
they tend to be open minded about everything but sex... so i guess as long as the aliens aren't having sex, or you promise not to have sex with aliens. Catholic church don't mind what you think.
my daughter is unique and special. if i have another child, will she no longer be unique and special?
You see, this is where you misunderstood me completely. What I said had nothing to do with their god. If you want to believe in any deity, that's all well and good. Faith in moderation is a good thing. However, when some guy in a funny hat who's appointed by other guys in funny hats all of a sudden starts to determine what is okay to believe in, and somehow thinks that his word is the word of their god....well, that's another story. Believe in the gods or goddesses, not some "earthly representative".
I asked the same question on this same issue in another thread and received a reply that didn't come close to answering the direct question.
with some there seems to be an equation of "alone" and "unique and special". can't have one without the other. my daughter will always be unique and special, there will never be another like her. i will never experience things the same with other children. unique and special are not exclusive to alone. at all.
I love Brother Pagan. You always make me think. I have always considered myself a sheep being led by a shepherd in matters of faith. Never thought about the alien issue. Don't think it matters in the grand scheme. The bible does say that Jesus died for all (why not aliens, too). I've always stated that I have a pretty simplistic faith and that works for me. I look to the Catholic church for guidance. I look to Jesus to tell me what to do.
Ah Rev, but your sheepishness is not literal sheepishness. I'm sure you don't look to the Pope to find out what you should do in times of indecision. But really, no one should "tell you what to do" but yourself. I always was stunned at the amounts of WWJD stuff I see. Do people REALLY need a bracelet to look at to figure out how to interact in society??? Moral behavior is universal.
i believe that is the crux of the situation. most people look for guidance. some look for leadership.
No, brother, they don't or rather shouldn't need a bracelet to them how to behave or interact. But, much like a cross/crucifix hanging from their neck, it is a reminder or even a witness to others about their faith. Yet, unfortunately, our actions speak louder than our words and our true witness should be our lives and not a bracelet or necklace. Yet, I digress. The Pope is the leader of my church and I look to him to guide me as to how Jesus still moves in my life and what Jesus is asking of me. The Pope doesn't guide me in times of indecision, His inspired words (such as the ones in my sig) do. I may not always agree with everything he says, but I don't ever cross my arms and think of throwing out the baby with the bath water. There is nothing wrong with doubt. It's what you do with that doubt that matters. Yet, I digress. Moral behavior is another issue.
..and the reason most people look for leadership is that (according to the Bible, tradition, and the Catholic faith), Jesus gave the keys of Heaven to Peter and told him,
Love your posts Rev. Especially the line " It's what you do with doubt that matters." I listen to my pastor and use his words as a guideline. There have been many times we've disagreed, (you should be in our Wed, night Bible studies) My pastor is a personal family friend also and while I do learn a lot from him, I think on my own, pray and TRY to do right for my own well-being while staying in Gods will. Thank you, you inspire me to go read my Bible and learn all I can.
I mean none of this in disrespect. My question to you Rev, is why does the Pope matter to you? Or a pastor or whoever? Why doesn't it just begin and end with the Bible? I guess what I'm trying to say is, why is the Pope's/pastor's/preacher's interpretation of the Bible more valid than say your's? It just seems to me a holy man will give advice based on the Bible. That advice will be filtered through that holy man's ideas, agendas, or thought processes. It seems that since people are all different with different ideas and situations, it would be more beneficial, for a person to find the answers or inspiration from the Bible, themselves. I would even think that since most people have lives in the "real" world, that they are already "more equipped" to find the answers that make the most sense for their lives, than someone who doesn't generally have to deal with things like, a job, money, relationships, etc.
To Pagan and to Fin D, I think you are looking at the issue of authority and influence from a different perspective than DD and Rev. and frankly me as well. For many adherants to a faith tradition, any faith tradition, life gets lived out in community. The New Testament word generally translated as "priest" is presbuteroy which literally means "elder". When confronted with new problems or difficult ones we look to the community for assistance and indeed confirmation of what a correct action might be. That comes from the elders, scholars, and indeed the community working together. Do it by yourself only and you will likely end up finding some way of rationalizing your own actions. I am considered a leader within my tradition and yet I am regularly in consultation either by study group or in reading with lots of others as to what might be a correct or just better reading of a text or a problem might be. This story has significance for its historical perspective. there was a time when the church was so terra-centric that any consideration of life outside was a punishable offense. I find it pleasant and refreshing that the leader quoted here is not trying to limit God or put God in a box and say what God can or can not do. That is likely the result of some serious study and while I doubt I'll make much use of it, I find it refreshing.
That was one of my (many LOL) problems when I was a Christian. When my wife and I were getting married we were both Christian, and got married in a Catholic church. (we've since been handfasted, don't worry. ) Before that we had to go to a Pre-Cana program. I sat there in utter disbelief as a priest was trying to tell everyone about relationships, even sexual ones. No disrespect, but I felt like asking him "have you ever gotten your **** wet Father?" It was like me trying to tell a doctor how to perform open heart surgery.
I hear you, but it seems many consider the word of these holy men as revered. They are just men and women. Just people. If you take the Pope as an example, he is less versed in average life than the average person is. Why is his opinion even valid?
You're correct Ohio. When confronted with new problems or difficult ones, I don't look to the community for assistance and indeed confirmation of what a correct action might be. I look to my family.
Do you not go outside your family when looking for advice on a specific topic or insight into issues of daily life?? I would suspect you do, as we all do. We all look to those whom we respect or to those whom (we think) know more than ourselves or have better insight when it comes to a particular subject. Don't believe me?? Go to the Lounge (or Club Level) and count how many threads there are asking for advice/thoughts on any range of topics. That is part of our human nature. The same goes for spiritual advice/insight/enlightenment. Those of (most) religious faiths believe that there are those gifted with spiritual insight and discernment, just as you, Pagan, are gifted similarly with regards to music. Whether they be Elders, Pastors, Fathers, Monks, the Dalai Llama etc.; it doesn't matter. They are looked at the same way by their constituents. They are not any better/worse than anyone else in the community- simply led by a different 'calling'/disposition/skill set. Hope this clears things up a little.
I believe and very much practice that the Church is my family! We are "children of God" and I work to live that out.
It is very, very rare that in this day and time a pope speaks all by himself. What you hear is the collective wisdom of many folks. I don't get much "reverence" but largely people do acknowledge that I am likely more to be versed on how to do moral decision making than some one else. I do not advocate blind obedience either. Leaders should carry appropriate weight in the decision making process but ultimately we all make our own decisions.
I never said I didn't. However JCow, I wouldn't go to the lounge to ask opinions of serious matters. I keep things "in house" so to speak. Now above, you said that you go to someone with "better insight". This is what I've been trying to say. Who says the Pope has any better insight than anyone else? ESPECIALLY regarding something like alien life? THAT is what I was referring to with my first statements. The Pope has no more knowledge of this than anyone else, yet there are people who will hang on his every word concerning the matter. That's what I don't get. I would NOT go to any High Priestess for advice on what tires to buy for my Mustang. I also would not go to one for any life advice, because how do I know she's not JUST as ****ed up as I am? I understand what you are saying, and going to an "elder" so to speak for input is fine. What troubles me is those who accept their word as law. You know what I meant bro. Blood.
You may be right about the knowledge about alien life, the Pope is human after all. but, we, as Catholics believe that he is inspired by God in regards to church matters. That is where we look for his guidance. As far as tires for your mustangs, I wouldn't ask him either. He has his Pope mobile.
And in regards to church matters, you should. That much I agree with. But unless he's inspired by James T. Kirk, he needs to leave the aliens to someone else. And I'm not the only one who's noticed that it's a Mercedes.
