Tyrann Mathieu- Why not the Honey Badger?

There is no way on earth we take him, were building a class team and we have no time for misfits............

 

I watched the interview.

I don't know.

I don't think anyone that needs a plan and babysitters to keep away from weed is worth the risk when smoking weed can keep you from playing with suspensions.

Weed is not addictive. That means he doesn't want to quit. He basically needs an adversarial atmosphere to stay away.....he needs it to be a game to stay quit.

Think about it like this, as a GM, Tyrann has made it clear you can't trust him to protect your investment, so now you have to trust other people to keep him in line and hope against hope, if there's a gap in the babysitting one day, that it won't be long enough for Tyrann to screw up. No player is worth that headache.

 

What is he lacking from an on the field standpoint?

 

Anything can become addictive if used or done in excess. I think a 3rd rounder of ours would be worth the risk...

 

No way he goes before the 4th round. Is he talented? Yes, very. Does he have issues still? No one really knows. I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him in rounds 5, 6, or 7.

 

He'd be a Miami dolphin in a heartbeat..sometimes you have to take a caculated risk on greatness,he's it for me..

What a different player, pure football instincts, incredibly talented..the natural.

Would be a great addition to the fanbase, kid would electrify the morgue..maybe even get a few fans on their feet in anticipation of a play being made....innate instinct to make plays, great ability for awareness of the ball, skills to high point, catch, and return..

Top priority of this coaching staff, Playmakers on both sides, turnover differential.

Badger fits everything we need and want from a football perspective and then some because of the value for which you can get this great talent at, however, it all comes down to your gut in this one, bad person, or good person who did something bad..

I love the kid, takes balls to do what he's doing to try and reclaim some dignity..

 

Nothing he can't learn..some will say his hips are stiff when he wants to flip, I think that's silly, he's just undisciplined in his technique, this kid can do anything he wants to from a football standpoint..

He's also a very tough lil sonofabitch, didnt get that nickname for nothing, dude is fearless..

 

Do Not Want.

 

Why's that, kid hasn't paid enough for his college mistakes, doesn't deserve a chance?.. Did he kill someone, hit a woman somewhere, beat up his mother, is he a bully, he seems to me like a social introvert that dealt with fame by escaping and getting high..

 

Yep. This.

They have exhausted this avenue here in Dallas for the Cowgirls.

The kid had to have a good intervue, perhaps his only chance of playing again. He was coached up for that interview big-time.
He has talents, but also has lots of issues.

If he's still there in the 5th, maybe depending on how the draft has played out.

If he's still there in the 6th, then sure.

 

We did a poll here on how high you would take Mathieu if you were the GM. Seems like the 3rd and 4th rounds got the most votes. I'd take him with our later 3rd. Yes, he is a risk due to the possible chance he relapses into using weed, but other than that I think he'd be a fine nickel corner.

 

It's not about a chance. He was given multiple chances at LSU. At what point do you say "hey, maybe giving him his 8th chance isn't really a good bet for me?"

 

It looks as thoug talent projection is not the case on this one, it's about the projection of how a human being will end up..

I really can't speak with conviction, it's just one of those kids that I feel the reward is so out of whack relative to the risk, I would just go for it..the skillset is perfect for us..

 

Has he really actually gotten 7 chances to this point and screwed up again that many times?

 

Zero doubt about the ltalent Dj.
But how high of a pick are you willing to gamble for a kid that just as likely might not ever play, and it has nothing to do with talent or ability.

He is a huge gamble.

 

I wouldn't doubt it. At LSU pretty much no talented football player gets less than 3 chances.

 

He was suspended in 2011 for drug use. In 2012 he was again dismissed after reports of repeated drug test failures. The reports were that he failed three NCAA drug tests. That does not count any team drug tests which I imagine would have been covered up anyways. He then went into rehab amidst statements of lessons learned and plans to return to the team in 2013. Then he was subsequently arrested for possession. So I don't know how many chances he's actually already had, but the number is at least 5 previous chances.

 

This is going to be a situation where its going to depend on three things:
1. Is what round is he viewed as talent wise vs actually going in in Irelands opinion. I know myself and many others feel hes a 1st round caliber talent. We know his decision making has sucked in the past but has he turned a corner....? In other words does the risk of a say a 5th round pick outweigh the reward? Or does the reward of a potential all pro outweigh the risk?
2. Where does JI think we are in the building process? A team like SF has a bundle of picks and theyre a great team already. We are still building and while we've gotten better havent yet joined the elite. Lets say we feel he wont be there in round 5; do we trade down in round 1 try and grab a 4 (among other picks) and snag him there with the idea that round 5 is where someone like a SF or NE will take a flier on him knowing that hes a piece that could be a "put you over the top piece"?
3. Does Philbin and the organization feel like dealing with a potential headache knowing that if they can harness his talent they have a really good player? Do they feel like having to have a babysitter around the kid?

I would take the chance on him because I always believe you take a chance on greatness. IMO you put a young person in a right environment and an overwhelming majority will flourish. We dont know his background, his family, how he was raised, his friends growing up. You get him around a strong team, a strong locker room, a strong coach and he will be ok imo. Players like this you just have to be a little harder on because if you give em an inch they take a mile and thats probably what has happened his whole life because of his talent.

 

Its not about the other guys.

This is about Tyrann himself. He freely admits he cannot be trusted. That's a false ownership of one's own problems. He's admitting he will mess up unless he's stopped by other people. That means he's basically putting the responsibility on others and not himself. He's basically saying, "I can't/won't change, so you better stop me."

That's a man who has not hit rock bottom yet.

 

Exactly. This isn't about his environment or role models or any of that. The team who drafts him will waste a pick. Maybe after he screws up with a couple of NFL teams he might figure it out. But the team that drafts him is just making a sucker's bet.

 

All I could find was he was suspended for 1 game for an undisclosed violation of team rules. Do you know for sure what that violation was? If so, can you point me toward a link that says it?

 

Very good points Matt.

I would take a chance in 5 or maybe 4th round, except there is one more caveat.
Is there leadership enough already in the locker room to provide this kid with what he needs?
Especially after losing Bush, Long and Dansby, I'm not sure there is.
And of course then there's always the chance of a guy like this coming in and not only screwing up for himself, but taking others down with him.

Very high risk.......high reward situation.

 

Here's an ESPN link that says that first 1 game suspension was for a failed drug test. The official line is always "team rules", but everybody knew it was drugs. He was in drug counseling after that first suspension. Then after being kicked off the team, again for a "team rules" violation he goes into rehab.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...su-tyrann-mathieu-kicked-team-violating-rules

 

I still say the guy is very overrated even without the baggage. From a talent standpoint, he's a 4th or 5th cornerback/special teams player in the NFL. Their is certainly a lot of hand wringing here over a guy that isn't really that good to begin with.

 

He has stiff hips, limited speed, and struggles with staying with receivers down the field.

 

Kenny, to me these are the types of decisions that either get a GM an extension or fired. If you have a conviction about the players talent and mental state one way or the other you either make the move or pass but be prepared for the repercussions whether good or bad. Personally, this is the type of high risk, high reward situation I love. If he acts like a turd you cut him and thats what happens to most 5th round picks anyway at some point. The alternative is hes finally pulled his head out of his behind and we have a starting caliber NFL CB as a 4th or 5th round pick and thats one way how good teams become great....they find value in picks (or free agency) whose risk/reward situation was viewed differently and they take a chance.

As for the leadership....Long Dansby and Bush were strong, high character guys and they definitely helped in the development of some players. But strong leadership comes from the coach and the QB ultimately assumes that role as much as any player. Defensively I think having Wake, Starks, Reshad Jones as all pro level players around him may be a strong enough environment for him to flourish.

 

WADR, I disagree a 100%.

Taking a risk on a guy that has failed on the very basic level of stop smoking weed..repeatedly...is not a bold move..its a bad one.

Taking Tannehill at 8 was bold. This would be pointless. You may never know how a player will play, we do on the other hand, have a pretty good record of his behavior. In the face of that record, the best he can offer is, I'll need a plan to stop me. At this point any team that takes him is no different than the woman who takes back the guy that beats her.

 

How is he a huge gamble, where did you get the idea that he may never play?

Az man, I'm about adding great overall football players, p,ay makers, adaptable, multidimensional, instinctual, football players..

Tavon Austin and this kid are the top two plamakers in the draft, and they both fit our needs to the tenth degree, including putting asses in the seats for a little extra bonus.

I would take him at 3a if he's there..The kid has Palomalu Instincts and reactions..

This is not just a nickel corner.

 

how many chances did cam newton the cheater and stealer get?

 

he's the reason why I would of went after Charles Woodson..

 

Deej,

I know you are someone who is big into culture and positive press being huge factors in team building and success. So why are you willing to risk that for only a CB...who we don't even know has the ability to play in the league, let alone stay clean enough that the league won't suspend him?

 

First off, he hasn't played in almost 2 years? Right?

Second off, 1 bad piss test and he is not playing. I would say that he has continually already failed that, THAT is a big gamble.

Just cause the kid comes on a scripted showing, after being coached up for it, and suggests he has learned his lesson....he has already shown everybody, repeatedly, that he probably hasn't.

Once again, if he is there later in the draft. Late 4th or 5th, then sure. Before that, not me. Not for my job depending on it. Now way no how.

 

I do and have always respected your posts as much or more than anybody KB, especially in regards to Draft, but I can't agree with you here. My own eyes won't let me agree with you.

 

I'll give you that he might not be able to stay clean, and that you have me thinking about what he says in terms of needing help, but not that he doesn't have the ability to be a star..I believe he does, and by that conviction, if I'm the GM, risk reward is in play..Fin, risk reward has to come into play at some point, their all not gonna be squeaky clean, and if one of those players you fall in love with is not squeaky clean, I'd rather those issues be of the non violent ones.

He's not just a corner Fin, he's a game changer, he will replace clemons eventually imo, punt returner, and if you get the eval of the mind right, your hitting a home run as to where you can get him.

I think that's the fundamental drawback of this debate, people are underestimating him as a football player first and foremost, so it becomes quite easy to look elsewhere and not worry about taking a rather small risk..

I'm adamant that this player is special, I say that because I know where he's at in terms of pure natural ability, but what puts me over the edge is his toughness on the field..This is a kid that knows how to play a big boy game, even though he is small..

 

Deej, I'm gonna stop you right there. IF he can't stay clean, I don't care if he is Charles freakin Woodson, he isn't going to play. The league won't let him...and I can promise you the league will be watching this kid very very closely regardless of what the Union wants.

 

He has an unorthodox style for the corner position..

He has incredible vision from a defenders perspective of the whole field.

He has unique ability to make plays by getting his body contortioned into positions that only very talented athletes can do.

He has great vision when he transitions to offense and special teams.

His ability to strip the football is ridiculous, Charles Tillman esque in that he knows how to punch the football and strip..

He lacks technique and coaching because he felt like he was so good he didnt need it, and he was right, he didnt, his first two years of college football were as impressive as any at that age for his position.

Imagine what he could do once he learns really good technique and coaching principles.

You have at least a person that has been humbled, I believe you will get his attention..

Calling him a fifth round talent without the baggage is not something I agree with, not even close..

This is a true swagger, not something that should be easily dismissed, contagious player..can electrify a stadium, all by himself..cool mother grabber..

Yeah I know he smoked pot, but the kid is like a magnet, everyone wants to be around him.

 

You are changing the spectrum a bit.

Saying we are looking for players who are squeaky clean isn't accurate and just dilutes the seriousness of what Tyrann did. If someone made a mistake once or even twice and got busted they aren't off our list, but that's not what Tyrann did. Tyrann epically effed up repeatedly no matter the consequences. And even staring down the barrel of the negativity of his mistakes and how they'll affect his immediate future he can't even guarantee he won't eff up again. So much so, he's saying the team will have to be responsible for keeping him clean.

You are also basically acting as if he's the Luck of CBs in terms of guaranteed ability to play in the pros. You are big on discipline.....where has Tyrann ever shown any?