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Tua or or wait for Lawrence?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I think we will have first pick next year But I am not sold on Tua and think his game wont translate to the Nfl.
    Lawrence looks like he will be a star and we would dominate the AFC for years to come.Do we wait until 2021 assuming he will even come out or build a offensive line in 2020 and start Rosen?Then move up and.grab Lawrence in 2021.
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    If we're low enough this year, we might be able to take Tua, or another, and then with massed picks take Lawrence in 2021...seriously.

    Might be crazy, but it's not impossible.

    Then again, Tua might not be available until 2021 either - in an interview he stated that he and his family might choose for him to finish college first, because they believe education is important. So if that's the case, then the Dolphins will have to look at someone else this year or else wait. That would give the scouts two more years to evaluate Tua and Lawrence.

    As for Tua in 2020 - we've got one more year to take a look at him, along with others. I'll be paying close attention this year.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  3. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    I hope he stays in for one more year.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Don't gamble on being able to take the QB you want in 2021. Let's say you're sitting there with pick #1 in 2020 and you think you can guarantee you'll be there to pick the QB you want in 2021? No. Too much uncertainty.

    Also 2 seasons of tanking is too much. One is enough. And you do not need the next Dan Marino at QB. You just need a guy that's consistently above average. Get that in 2020 and build the rest of the team.
     
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  5. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm hoping one of the teams with the 1st overall pick in either of the next two years has a quarterback already (maybe he got injured, maybe he showed promise but the team lost a bunch of close games) ala Marcus Mariota IIRC, and would be willing to trade back for some of these picks we've accrued. Then we can get "our guy". Wishful thinking, but it's a hope after all.
     
  6. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua.

    Tua is a can't miss prospect. And we're a can't win team in 2019. We'll have the #1 overall pick in 2020 and tons of draft capital and salary cap space to surround him with the talent to be successful. Trust the Process.
     
  7. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua..great skillset, great intangibles..
     
  9. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Once again, no front office or coaching staff is going to be given permission to “take their time” to the extent that they can pass up a franchise quarterback they’re targeting, in favor of losing as a team for an entire additional season to target a different one.

    This isn’t the NBA, where you may need to tank as a team for multiple seasons to garner the necessary draft picks to compete with the firepower of the Golden State Warriors, for example. This is the NFL, where having a franchise quarterback changes a team’s fortunes immediately and should make it stop tanking and start winning.
     
  10. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Never said tank in 2020.Build the team in the trenches and play Rosen next year.Move up and get Lawerence.
     
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  11. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I dont see elite prospect with this guy from his release to his awkward foot work in the pocket.
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You won't be able to get Lawrence without tanking unless you're just by chance the worst team in the league record-wise. Just having picks to trade up isn't enough, you need a willing trading partner, and in a QB starved league you're not going to find a willing trading partner for the #1 pick if a potentially great QB is available.

    So Tua in 2020 as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Again, Tua may NOT be available in 2019. We may be forced to wait until 2021, or else, pick a third option. In which case, if the FO prefers either Tua or Lawrence I hope they pursue their guy and don't just 'settle' for someone in 2020 because they get nervous.
     
  14. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I don't think we can wait. If Tua stays in school, we need to take someone in 2020. My guess is Tua will come out early and finish his degree later. He will probably be number 1 in 2020. If he says in school then Lawerence should be number 1.
     
  15. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hopefully Rosen develops, we move up to draft Lawrence then trade Rosen for more draft picks.
     
  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lawrence has a chance to be an Andrew Luck/Peyton Manning generational talent. You won't get him unless you draft #1.

    And frankly, two straight years of being the worst overall team in the league means Flores is gone and we are starting over.
     
  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    On Tua from May this year...




    More in the College Football forum though.
     
  18. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we are in a position to take Tua, we have to - a lot could happen in two years, TL could get a bad injury, lose interest in the game. If we passed on Tua in the hope that we get Lawrence and something happens, we are dead
     
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  19. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Lawrence seems like a generational talent, like Luck was. So, what would it have taken for the Colts to give up that #1 pick? Five first rounders? Three first rounders and two of the best players from your team? Or would they have flatly refused to deal that pick?

    You can't count on moving up, even if you make an insane offer. Even then, things could happen, like imagine the Colts trading five first rounders to move up a couple spots to get Luck..... and then having him retire like he just did? The Indy nightmare would be so much worse.
     
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  20. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I am not going to count on getting Tua. We need to have a backup plan in case another team sucks more than we do. I haven't researched it heavily but I think Fromm could be a player.
     
  21. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Rosen. And use the draft and free agency to fortify the rest of the team.
     
  22. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    3 number 1 picks will do it an we already have 2 in 2021.The teams that are in the playoffs every year all have a franchise QB.
    I don't like Tua,Herbert or Fromm but thats my opinion.
     
  23. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’m skeptical of Tua for all the same reasons a lot of folks are. He gets hyped so much he’s become the default answer to a question that isn’t even fair to ask right now.

    We need to let the 2019 college football season play out. Tua needs to continue his dominance and I look forward to seeing him play better (or at least healthy) against the elite competition at season's end. Odds are he'll do great but if there's any sort of regression it'll be cause for concern and it may bring other guys like Fromm, Herbert and Love into the conversation.

    Lawrence needs to mature as a QB and show he's more than just a freakish physical prospect who had an outstanding freshman year. I graduated from Clemson so don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but he was a freshman and he has a lot he can clean up. His arm makes him a man among boys out there but as a QB there's a lot of room to grow. His upside is ridiculous but we could've said that about a lot of guys who ended up being duds once they had to rely on their minds.
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Yeah I'm not locked in on Tua. I'm locked in on taking a QB with the #1 pick in 2020 whoever seems to be the best prospect at that time. It's just that right now that looks like Tua. The important thing is to end this search for a franchise QB that we've had since Marino.
     
  26. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I more or less agree. One year of tanking ought to suffice, haha.

    I suppose hypothetically if Tua really looked bad this year or had some devastating injury or something to that effect and as a result he dropped way down you might do what the Browns did. Remember that despite having the #2 and #1 pick they passed on Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the couple years before they finally pulled the trigger on Baker Mayfield. It's ridiculous to think Miami would be that bad for that long, but still...it's been done.

    I could fathom Miami doing something like that if they had a "decent" season this year with 5-6 wins and couldn't trade up to get the guy they really wanted.

    I think the worse they do, the more the pressure will be applied and of course, the better chance they'll have at getting who they want, too.

    Still, passing on a QB in 2019 when you have so many legit options (Tua, Herbert, Love, etc.) may prove a dangerous thing. You're not guaranteed to have good options every year. In fact, it's more like 1 in every 3 years. I remember looking at the past 15 years or so and seeing quite a few years in there wherein the best options amongst the consensus "elites" were not good players. Heck, in 2013 EJ Manuel was the only QB taken highly and even that pick was a mistake, LOL.

    So if you pass on QB in 2020 and then Lawrence doesn't declare or you're just not a horrible team, man, you're screwing yourself.

    So I agree, if Miami ends up amongst the top-5 this year they've pretty much gotta take someone I would think.
     
  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Toughest scenario is if Tua doesn't declare this year and defers to 2021. If Tua/Lawrence stand out again this year admin no one else comes close you've got to wait, right? I mean unless you're convinced a third guy is legit. But you DO NOT just take a guy in 2020 just because you have to. This has been too much of a purge to walk away without THE guy.
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You absolutely take the best QB in 2020 whoever that is, even if Tua doesn't declare. There simply is no guarantee you could ever trade for that #1 pick in 2021. And there is no such thing as "THE guy". Too many "can't miss" prospects have turned into busts.
     
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I understand your reasoning but I have a fundamental problem with someone making what they feel is a sub-standard choice just because they 'have to'. If you've made massive moves like this primarily to get your preferred QB, and you know who that is, you go get him. There are no guarantees of anything except that making a choice you don't want to make and locking yourself in to it is never a good idea.
     
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  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So what are you going to do, tank even more next year?

    If Tua and Lawrence are the guys you think they are it's a safe bet that they're going #1 and #2 overall and that the teams who are there aren't going to pass on them.

    I don't see a scenario where Miami can pass on a QB in 2020 and still be there to take one in 2021 unless they straight up tank even more next year.

    How would you even do that? How could you legitimately improve the roster this next off-season and yet still lose almost all your games in 2020, LOL!?

    Seems a lot more possible that you just take Fromm, Herbert or Love...all of whom will be elite prospects at the top of this upcoming draft.

    I mean, Tua isn't the only guy who can play. Look at the guys who've come out recently. Would you be dissatisfied if Miami had ended up with Wentz? Or Watson? Or Mahomes? Or Mayfield?

    Nah bro, they all would've worked.

    Anyhow, it's all moot. Tua is coming out this year. It's like 99.9% certain. You're just freaking yourself out suggesting otherwise. And don't get all consumed with Tua. He's not going to be the only guy who's under consideration at year's end.
     
  31. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    "Fromm, Herbert or Love...all of whom will be elite prospects at the top of this upcoming draft"

    That's quite the statement. One - you don't know that. Two - the odds are dead set against 3 elite QB prospects showing up in one draft.

    "Tua is coming out this year. It's like 99.9% certain." I've no idea what the odds are on it, but apparently you've got the inside tip on this. I only know that Tua and his family have said, in interviews, that finishing his education is an important consideration, and his family's opinion, particularly his father's opinion is a massive influence on him. His Dad basically had the final say on what college he was going to.
    I would imagine it's hard to avoid the pull of the NFL, the money to be made and the risk of injury in college, but if there's one family that looks like it will be guided by their own principles and not the money, it's that one. Regardless, we're talking possibilities here, so just looking at all possible outcomes.

    As for tanking into 2021, I'm not sure what the solution is, but I one possibility is that they acquire some pieces in 2020 but essentially continue to trade to acquire more picks in 2021 and further build up their ammo. So yes, they could continue the tank another year if that's what they wanted to do.
     
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  32. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua, Fromm, Herbert and Love are all being graded now and are in the running to be "elite" 1st round QBs next year. You can't hold Tua up without doing the same for those others as well.

    And Tua will be done with his education early AFAIK.
     
  33. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    If Tua isn’t available, I’d be fine with taking the best pass rusher or trading back for some more picks.
     
  34. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I am skeptical of Tua at this point but I will try to watch as much as I can stand this year to get a better idea of who he is.
    This team will have the worst record in football at the end of the year. If Tua is there we will take him.

    For better or worse.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO this will be a good QB class. I have two QBs at this point whom I believe will end up being worth the first overall pick (Tua and Love). That's pretty rare for me. The last time I had two QB prospects in one draft I viewed as worthy of the #1 overall pick was 2004 (Eli Manning and Rivers). I understand the argument that it's currently Tua, then everybody else. And I see Tua as an excellent prospect, but I'm not sure that he will be the only excellent QB prospect by the time the draft rolls around. Obviously, my opinion could change as the season progresses, but that's where I'm at right now. I have also heard last year that the team really liked Herbert and obviously there are others who could rise. The point is that I this should be a strong QB class, the kind where you have more than just one QB worthy of building around. Sometimes you need to have good timing and having a high pick in a potentially historically strong QB class would be good timing. That's why I would not be in favor of passing on QB in 2020.
     
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You only take him if you believe he will be successful though. Taking a QB just because hes there is how you get EJ Manual like someone said.
     
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  37. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Obviously.. but given the 2020 QB draft class there’s something wrong with this FO if they think the only successful QB will be Tua. So if we’re picking #1 in 2020 I think it’s too risky to do anything else than to pick a QB.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, me too- I don't think you take a QB at 1 no matter what. Trade down to 3-5 overall and pick up an additional 1st from a bad team the following season (since they're picking 3rd, 4th or 5th). That way you're locked on Lawrence or Tua if they don't declare until 2021 and now you have 3 freaking 1st rounders.
     
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  39. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t even think our organization could screw up 3 1st rounders lol

    On a side note, I’m glad we didn’t trade for Antonio Brown. What a basket case. Hopefully we’ve learned our lesson on those type of players.
     
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  40. Big Phin

    Big Phin Member

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    Lawrence is the next big thing, imo. He will be in that "top 5 NFL QB" talk each year. Tua will get a "yay" where Lawrence will get a "Hell yeah!" :up:
     
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