Tua keep or not Tua keep...

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

I'm sorry it was Grier who said this. Tua haters you can cry from now until September.

And the ones who believe he's a good quarterback will be crying from September through December.

Still have to give Tua more time ,not to appease the fans but just for the investment.To soon to move on,the reality is he didn't have the players around him.

Look, it's true, he had crap for WRs. That's not even up for debate. No one is saying he should have taken this team to a SB. No one is even saying we should have won more games with him. And I don't think anyone is saying we should have beat the Bills with him. But it's not a stretch at all to say that he's not the QB we thought we were getting with the fifth overall pick. He lacks the arm talent, sure, but that's not a shock to anyone who watched him play at Alabama. What's disturbing is the lack of pocket presence, the lack of decisiveness, the immediate checkdowns, the lack of a gunslinger mentality...which, to me, indicates a lack of confidence.
I hear some people saying he could be the next Drew Brees. I would remind those people that it took YEARS for Drew Brees to become Drew Brees...and when he did, it was on another team than the one who drafted him. And my opinion is that Tua is nowhere near as heady or decisive even as a rookie Drew Brees.
He's a mediocre QB who has the capability to become a good QB with time, certainly. Very good? Maybe. Not for several years, though. Great? I doubt it.
If we want a great QB, we can't waste the opportunity the third overall pick gives us.

"Tin Indian wrote:

That would be an unbelievable stroke of luck! It would completely remake the weapons on offense in the space of 2 days! And between Harris or Etienne I love Harris's size. He is a poor mans Henry and may be a little faster.

After watching Harris against Notre Dame, I actually like him a lot. Etienne gives you that very quick burst of speed and GREAT hands in receiving out of the backfield but you’re right, Harris does remind me a bit of Derrick Henry...and I want to be able to pound defenses into submission.

Either pick I’d be happy with.

Not intending to commit sacrilege here but there is something I wonder...

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Mark Clayton to throw to?

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Mark Duper to throw to?

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Andra Franklin or Tony Nathan to hand the ball off to?

What if Dan Marino instead was throwing to Isiah Ford?

What if Dan Marino instead was throwing to Lynn Bowden?

What if Dan Marino instead was handing the ball off to Salvon Ahmed or DeAndre Washington?

I guess everyone would have been screaming to draft Boomer Esiason...because having the chance to draft Irving Fryer would be stupid.

This is what some of you aren’t seeing, or just being an ostrich. Who was Tagovailoa’s Clayton? Who was Tagovailoa’s Duper? Who was Tagovailoa’s Franklin? Who was Tagovailoa’s Nathan?

Brad, you’re the stats guy. How many passes did Tagovailoa have dropped by our “elite” receiving corps?

We have GOT to get some talent in here offensively. Otherwise it doesn’t matter who our quarterback is

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Brad, you’re the stats guy. How many passes did Tagovailoa have dropped by our “elite” receiving corps?

We're tied for 5th worst in dropped passes at 24:
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

How many of those were with Tua specifically I don't know.

Technically however, the total number of passes dropped by our "elite" receiving corps is zero because we do not have an "elite" receiving corps. lol.. or so a logician would say.

"cbrad wrote:

We're tied for 5th worst in dropped passes at 24:
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

How many of those were with Tua specifically I don't know.

Technically however, the total number of passes dropped by our "elite" receiving corps is zero because we do not have an "elite" receiving corps. lol.. or so a logician would say.

Therein lies a good part of the problem.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Not intending to commit sacrilege here but there is something I wonder...

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Mark Clayton to throw to?

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Mark Duper to throw to?

What if Dan Marino his rookie season didn’t have Andra Franklin or Tony Nathan to hand the ball off to?

What if Dan Marino instead was throwing to Isiah Ford?

What if Dan Marino instead was throwing to Lynn Bowden?

What if Dan Marino instead was handing the ball off to Salvon Ahmed or DeAndre Washington?

I guess everyone would have been screaming to draft Boomer Esiason...because having the chance to draft Irving Fryer would be stupid.

This is what some of you aren’t seeing, or just being an ostrich. Who was Tagovailoa’s Clayton? Who was Tagovailoa’s Duper? Who was Tagovailoa’s Franklin? Who was Tagovailoa’s Nathan?

Brad, you’re the stats guy. How many passes did Tagovailoa have dropped by our “elite” receiving corps?

We have GOT to get some talent in here offensively. Otherwise it doesn’t matter who our quarterback is

Terrible!Marino made his wrs!
Hell the wrs produced when Fitz was in there!.Case in point the raiders game..
And any idiot will tell u Fitz does not equal Marino!

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

That appears to be the question...
Tua keep or not Tua keep...
Ok, I got the green light for a new Tua thread, but please keep this civil.

Civil?!?!?!? Gadzooks! I am most ready to loose my bodkin and have away with you! 'Tis nobler to make a buffoon of the king than to make easy of the Bard. Hath thou no respect for the most honorable amongst those who find their greatest achievement in the correct construction of conversation?

"RevRick wrote:

Civil?!?!?!? Gadzooks! I am most ready to loose my bodkin and have away with you! 'Tis nobler to make a buffoon of the king than to make easy of the Bard. Hath thou no respect for the most honorable amongst those who find their greatest achievement in the correct construction of conversation?

Oh bunk that! Mr Sulu, lock phasers on target :sidelol:

Like it or not the Alabama system may have contributed to Tua’s success but I’m not going as far as saying he was a product of the system. Either way, we know with good weapons around him he can dominate. Go get a young powerful weapon he is familiar with. Go get Devonta Smith and create the next great receiver QB tandem of our time.

Well I certainly wouldn't want to bail on him after one year. Especially given the supporting cast and other circumstances this year that really limit the opportunity to develop a rookie QB. If you're going to invest the 5th overall pick into a QB you have to at least try to build something around him and give him some NFL caliber WR's to work with.

That being said, QB is the position you absolutely have to get right. So if they arent sold on him in some way then then damn well better consider QB at #3. If you get him a weapon at #3 though; you likely instantly improve his chances.

I think it's obvious at this point they are still all in on Tua so I think he's certainly being kept and they'll build the offense around him. The only problem with that is they appear to be still building it with Chan Gailey. To me; that's the big problem here. All that aside though, we at least need to be considering a capable QB2 on the roster. To me it's not Fitz. While he's had success for us and has been a good mentor for Tua if he has to have significant playing time then we could be in trouble when the inevitable appearance of Fitztragic shows up. I'd rather have someone that can provide some more stability there.

I could see Tua having that second year similar to Josh Allen's third. Both had limited college experience but I feel Tua is ahead mechanically so he can have the light turn on sooner. Still not sold on him being able to physically hold up though. With that in mind, accumulating additional 1st round picks in 2022 is what I would try to do with both of our first rounders.

I think Miami has to be concerned about Tua's first season and how it played out. He started out with promise and then as defense got a chance to see some tape looked just plain bad. Does a full offseason and adding weapons help him? How many successful NFL QBs do we see out there that started out bad end up good? Not many. In today's NFL the good ones impress early and stay good. That makes it confusing with Tua because we saw both this season. It's the from good to bad trend that scares me. I honestly don't know. All we can do is trust the coaches and front office.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

How many successful NFL QBs do we see out there that started out bad end up good? Not many.

Over the last 25-30 years let's see, Aikman, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a couple others that escape me at the moment. 2 of those 3 are in the Hall as 1st ballot guys and the 3rd one will be too. So actually quite a few.

"Tin Indian wrote:

Over the last 25-30 years let's see, Aikman, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a couple others that escape me at the moment. 2 of those 3 are in the Hall as 1st ballot guys and the 3rd one will be too. So actually quite a few.

That's fair, but I was referencing today's NFL which I define post 2005. That's when the rule enforcement governing how DBs can interact with WRs went into affect which completely changed the game and the QB position in my opinion.

Also I'd argue Peyton Manning showed huge potential right off the bat despite the interception plagued first season.

So, for all of the pro Tua people; what is it that you all saw this season that makes you think that Tua has any potential to be a special NFL QB? Was it just the Arizona game?

Personally, I'm not worried about Tua yet. He has some growing to do and I would definitely bring in some competition to keep him honest, but that competition should be anywhere from a late first to a 2nd or 3rd rounder (depending on who we really like and the run on QB's). Meanwhile, I'm doing everything I can to get Fitz back in the building. I expect him to retire but I do know that he really loves this football team, so we'll see.

For those that don't know, Fitz has like 11 kids and he's an amazing dad...his wife really wanted him to retire 3 seasons ago. So there's definitely a big pull to hang up the cleats.

"KeyFin wrote:

Personally, I'm not worried about Tua yet. He has some growing to do and I would definitely bring in some competition to keep him honest, but that competition should be anywhere from a late first to a 2nd or 3rd rounder (depending on who we really like and the run on QB's). Meanwhile, I'm doing everything I can to get Fitz back in the building. I expect him to retire but I do know that he really loves this football team, so we'll see.

For those that don't know, Fitz has like 11 kids and he's an amazing dad...his wife really wanted him to retire 3 seasons ago. So there's definitely a big pull to hang up the cleats.

If Fitz retires his final pass in his career will have been the one to Mack Hollins in Vegas where he got his helmet twisted backwards - not a bad way to go out.

"Ronnie Bass wrote:

If Fitz retires his final pass in his career will have been the one to Mack Hollins in Vegas where he got his helmet twisted backwards - not a bad way to go out.

Yeah, I'd still argue that it's the most incredible NFL pass of all-time. I mean, how do you top that throw? I don't think it's possible.

"Sceeto wrote:

So, for all of the pro Tua people; what is it that you all saw this season that makes you think that Tua has any potential to be a special NFL QB? Was it just the Arizona game?

Pocket presence, quick release, accuracy, team first mentality, mechanics... He still has ways to go but I did see things that I like. I think his biggest thing is, he's playing not to lose and his arm is not the strongest but I'm not down on him yet and I think he will get there if he stays healthy which is actually his biggest flaw if you want...

"Tin Indian wrote:

Over the last 25-30 years let's see, Aikman, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and a couple others that escape me at the moment. 2 of those 3 are in the Hall as 1st ballot guys and the 3rd one will be too. So actually quite a few.

Drew Brees did not start out bad. He showed a lot of promise in his rookie year. That didn't translate to wins, but the talent was there. Peyton Manning did throw too many INTs in his rookie season, but he also threw for almost 3800 yards. Everyone could see the talent there. I can't think of any star QB who started out their first season not showing arm strength who later developed arm strength.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Drew Brees did not start out bad. He showed a lot of promise in his rookie year. That didn't translate to wins, but the talent was there. Peyton Manning did throw too many INTs in his rookie season, but he also threw for almost 3800 yards. Everyone could see the talent there. I can't think of any star QB who started out their first season not showing arm strength who later developed arm strength.

And that's why the Chargers drafted his replacement after his 2nd season.

It would be foolish to move on from Tua after just 9 games. He was nowhere near Josh Rosen bad.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Drew Brees did not start out bad. He showed a lot of promise in his rookie year. That didn't translate to wins, but the talent was there. Peyton Manning did throw too many INTs in his rookie season, but he also threw for almost 3800 yards. Everyone could see the talent there. I can't think of any star QB who started out their first season not showing arm strength who later developed arm strength.

Not many had hip surgery before getting drafted, arm strength is may be the most important thing for throwing a ball but you need other things too. I really think he will look different next season after a whole Trainingcamp and a Offseason, where he can train instead of having rehab (he is never going to be a Mahomes, Allen or Luck). If not, we probably need someone new, that's why I would trade out of Nr. 3 and get more ammunition for next years draft if we need to go QB then.

"Tin Indian wrote:

And that's why the Chargers drafted his replacement after his 2nd season.

He got replaced because he injured his throwing shoulder.