Tua is not the Problem

"Fireland wrote:

No slack for 4 offensive coordinators in 3 years. Which was certainly going to become 5 in 4. Repeat that for offensive line coaches.

Two of those offensive line coaches are well respected.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Two of those offensive line coaches are well respected.

...and one of them brings coke and hookers to work with him.

"KeyFin wrote:

...and one of them brings coke and hookers to work with him.

That was Gase

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

That was Gase

No, that was the offensive line coach Chris Foerster- https://nypost.com/2017/10/11/model-ex-dolphins-coach-used-me-as-a-cocaine-platter/

"KeyFin wrote:

No, that was the offensive line coach Chris Foerster- https://nypost.com/2017/10/11/model-ex-dolphins-coach-used-me-as-a-cocaine-platter/

Flores wasn't hired until 2019.

"Galant wrote:

This sort of thing is just pointless. Comparing one of the leagues worst situations with one of the better ones, of course there's a difference. Not that Ben is one of the best QB's, some Steelers fans would have liked to have seen a change done sooner, but this is just pointing out a stable QB situation to a an unstable one.

I disagree. This hits on the point that you if you can find a good QB that can stay on the field, it's important to keep him. Ben hasn't been a top 10 QB for most of his career and was probably Pittsburgh's best player once or twice, but he's been solid and good enough to help his team win with the right cast around him. Miami's inability to find a QB who could play well for more than two years in a row is inexplicable and if not the reason for our failure, a symptom of it.

It fits here because IMO, a team that historically failed to find a decent QB now has a fan base debating over what constitutes "decent" and why that is or is not good enough.

"Dolfanalyst wrote:

I think the better question is whether somebody within the organization sabotaged (unintentionally) Brian Flores's development as a head coach. When you consider the level at which the offense was playing with Fitzpatrick in 2020, coupled with what the defense was doing at the time, the team would've been projected to make the playoffs and possibly even win a playoff game. Of course there was no guarantee of that because Fitzpatrick's history is inconsistent with sustaining that level of play, but if it would've happened it would've changed the trajectory of Flores's reputation and career considerably -- making the playoffs in only year two of a complete team rebuild, with a journeyman QB. That's quite a feat.

The question is, was he on board with forsaking that for the insertion of a rookie QB and the inevitable decrease in performance in the most important aspect of the game (pass offense), or did somebody force his hand on that? If somebody indeed forced his hand on that, I don't imagine he took too kindly to having his career potentially derailed in that way. As it was the team surmounted the decrease in performance of the pass offense with unlikely and largely non-replicable defensive and special teams plays, but they would've been considerably better by continuing with Fitzpatrick if he would've sustained his level of performance.

Personally, I don't think anybody pressured him into putting Tua on the field last year. I think he wanted to see what he had and was willing to move on if he didn't like what he saw (which he didn't). Flo is the most reactionary coach we've seen and he'll replace players and coaches quickly if he doesn't have faith in them. We've seen it with the roster and we've seen it with his coaching staff. I think he knows how TB12 helped Belichick's career and he's not willing to try to win games with a QB that's not the best player on his team. I think he's going to wind up with the Giants with the #5 and #7 picks (along with Daniel Jones and a couple second rounders) going to Houston. Everybody would be happy.

"pumpdogs wrote:

Not concerning to you that a QB with limited size and arm strength would not be a harder worker?

"Harder worker" is subjective. I'd be more surprised that a QB with limited size and arm strength and a questionable work ethic would be recruited by every major school in the NCAA, start for the top program in its strongest era in history, win a championship and play for another. Nothing wrong with how this young man works out or he wouldn't be where he is right now.

"mlb1399 wrote:

Or he didn’t want Tua to begin with and didn’t want his career as a coach limited by his QB. I can’t blame him for that.

He wanted Kyle Van Noy to begin with. Also wanted Shaq Lawson and Ereck Flowers. And Chan Gailey and a bunch of other coaches who are long gone. I'm not blaming him for anything, just pointing out how quickly he gives up on personnel.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

"Harder worker" is subjective. I'd be more surprised that a QB with limited size and arm strength and a questionable work ethic would be recruited by every major school in the NCAA, start for the top program in its strongest era in history, win a championship and play for another. Nothing wrong with how this young man works out or he wouldn't be where he is right now.

Not according to coach Flores.
Of course he is used to Tom Bradys work ethic.
And wait did he with his great work ethic not even know the playbook last year?

"pumpdogs wrote:

Not according to coach Flores.
Of course he is used to Tom Bradys work ethic.
And wait did he with his great work ethic not even know the playbook last year?

No player EVER worked hard through high school and college, then slacked off once he had a contract.

"pumpdogs wrote:

Not according to coach Flores.
Of course he is used to Tom Bradys work ethic.
And wait did he with his great work ethic not even know the playbook last year?

Tua's own words.

“I didn’t actually know the playbook necessarily really, really good, and that’s no one else's fault but my fault. Our play calls were simple when I was in. I didn’t have alerts and checks. Where now, I feel comfortable and I can maneuver my way through these things now.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoa-admits-he-didnt-fully-grasp-dolphins-playbook-as-a-rookie-221942638.html#:~:text=“I didn't actually know,way through these things now.”

Also in that same article.

"A rookie quarterback needing time to grasp the complexities of an NFL playbook is not on its own cause for alarm. Some rookies (see: Justin Herbert) dive right into the NFL and find immediate success. Other quarterbacks (see: Drew Brees) struggle early in their careers before developing into All-Pro passers."

Some people take time a little bit longer to learn a playbook than others. That statement is not indicative of how much or how little effort they put into learning it.

"Silverphin wrote:

Tua's own words.

“I didn’t actually know the playbook necessarily really, really good, and that’s no one else's fault but my fault. Our play calls were simple when I was in. I didn’t have alerts and checks. Where now, I feel comfortable and I can maneuver my way through these things now.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoa-admits-he-didnt-fully-grasp-dolphins-playbook-as-a-rookie-221942638.html#:~:text=“I didn't actually know,way through these things now.”

Also in that same article.

"A rookie quarterback needing time to grasp the complexities of an NFL playbook is not on its own cause for alarm. Some rookies (see: Justin Herbert) dive right into the NFL and find immediate success. Other quarterbacks (see: Drew Brees) struggle early in their careers before developing into All-Pro passers."

Some people take time a little bit longer to learn a playbook than others. That statement is not indicative of how much or how little effort into learning it.

Don't harsh their mood, man. They think Tua's a tiny, nonathletic, dimwit who worked beyond his limitations until he made it to the NFL and suddenly prefered golf to football because that makes sense. Somehow.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Don't harsh their mood, man. They think Tua's a tiny, nonathletic, dimwit who worked beyond his limitations until he made it to the NFL and suddenly prefered golf to football because that makes sense. Somehow.

Dimwit you say? Hmmmm......

Alabama's Tua Tagovailoa reportedly recorded a 13 on the Wonderlic test that was the lowest score by any quarterback in the 2020 NFL draft class.

Bob McGinn of The Athletic reported the update Friday and noted "some teams are more concerned than others" about the test result.

"canesz06 wrote:

Dimwit you say? Hmmmm......

Alabama's Tua Tagovailoa reportedly recorded a 13 on the Wonderlic test that was the lowest score by any quarterback in the 2020 NFL draft class.

Bob McGinn of The Athletic reported the update Friday and noted "some teams are more concerned than others" about the test result.

He scored a 19 at the combine. 3 points higher than Marino.

"Fireland wrote:

He scored a 19 at the combine. 3 points higher than Marino.

Just to add for evidence.

https://rolltidewire.usatoday.com/2020/04/17/report-tua-tagovailoa-gets-updated-wonderlic-score/

"Fireland wrote:

He scored a 19 at the combine. 3 points higher than Marino.

Still scored 13 the first time he took it.

"canesz06 wrote:

Still scored 13 the first time he took it.

...in 2018. Stop trying so hard.

"Silverphin wrote:

Some people take time a little bit longer to learn a playbook than others. That statement is not indicative of how much or how little effort they put into learning it.

People somehow forget that Tua was rehabbing his rookie year and not actively practicing with the team. He had no mini camp and he had no preseason. Those are HUGE factors for any rookie, much less a QB.

Plain and simple, Tus started too early. He didn't do well and under the circumstances, that's not a surprise. In year two, he did very well with the state of the offense. He hasn't "proven" himself either way yet, but to me he's trending in the right direction. Year three will tell us quite a bit about his trajectory...but it will also tell us quite a bit about this team in general.

If it's a down year in 2022 then I think we're getting pretty darn close to rebuild mode, which will set the franchise back another 3-5 years. My worry is more on receivers, linemen, and running backs at this point.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

...in 2018. Stop trying so hard.

Ok, so he was an idiot in 2018 and now he's a genius. Got it. Maybe taking the same test a second time helped? Maybe be should have tried harder. We all know his work ethic stinks

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Tua's a tiny, nonathletic, dimwit who worked beyond his limitations until he made it to the NFL and suddenly prefered golf to football because that makes sense. Somehow.

So, you're finally starting to come around. Good job. :up:

"canesz06 wrote:

Ok, so he was an idiot in 2018 and now he's a genius. Got it. Maybe taking the same test a second time helped? Maybe be should have tried harder. We all know his work ethic stinks

Unless you can find Herbert and Burrow's 2018 Wonderlich, you're just flailing for reasons to diss somebody at this point. And if not grinding on your off days means you have a sad work ethic, I'd bet money you belong in the same category. You're trying too hard and it's kind of sad.

"Silverphin wrote:

Tua's own words.

“I didn’t actually know the playbook necessarily really, really good, and that’s no one else's fault but my fault. Our play calls were simple when I was in. I didn’t have alerts and checks. Where now, I feel comfortable and I can maneuver my way through these things now.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/tua-tagovailoa-admits-he-didnt-fully-grasp-dolphins-playbook-as-a-rookie-221942638.html#:~:text=“I didn't actually know,way through these things now.”

Also in that same article.

"A rookie quarterback needing time to grasp the complexities of an NFL playbook is not on its own cause for alarm. Some rookies (see: Justin Herbert) dive right into the NFL and find immediate success. Other quarterbacks (see: Drew Brees) struggle early in their careers before developing into All-Pro passers."

Some people take time a little bit longer to learn a playbook than others. That statement is not indicative of how much or how little effort they put into learning it.

This dude was said to be more Qb ready than any QB in the draft.Drew brees went 2nd not pick 5.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Unless you can find Herbert and Burrow's 2018 Wonderlich, you're just flailing for reasons to diss somebody at this point. And if not grinding on your off days means you have a sad work ethic, I'd bet money you belong in the same category. You're trying too hard and it's kind of sad.

Herbert, 39
Burrow, 34

EDIT: Not sure how reliable this is. Just a quick google. Same site had Tua with a 13, so its at least corroborating that data.