Tua is not the Problem

No need. He's 6 foot. He's been measured at the combine and at college. He's 6 flat. I can list my ***** at 13 inches but unfortunately it doesn't make it so.

 

I think it's important not to get too caught up in "height issues" as far as he's concerned. This isn't a Doug Flutie or Kyler Murray situation we're dealing with. Tua is an even 6'0 from what I've read, so was Drew Brees. That's who I compare Tua to the most based off what I've seen. There have been a number of 6'5 athletic marvels at the quarterback position that have come into the league and were unable to make anything happen despite having all the physical tools needed to do so.

I think the biggest question aside from durability you to have to honestly ask yourself about Tua, is...Is he a winner? Can he win you a football game? He proved last season that he IS a winner and he can play at the highest level in this league.
Him winning at Alabama wasn't just a fluke due to him having stacked talent around him. Let's not forget that Georgia had Alabama on the ropes in that title game. The Tide didn't exactly coast to a blowout win with Tua as the quarterback. NO...Tua brought them back, turned in a legendary performance and then threw a clutch game winning TD in overtime to beat them. Then...He turned pro and started doing it as a pro.

The Baltimore game sold me last year on his talent and ability. He led one of the most amazing comebacks I have ever witnessed in watching this sport since 1990! I fail to see how anyone on the planet can dislike this kid and it's even more baffling that people still don't trust his abilities after what he did in the Baltimore game. Not only that, he was absolutely balling out of his mind for about 8 weeks. It's true that he was off in the Chargers game, but despite that, I don't think he turned the ball over once. He just couldn't hit his guys. LA played some great defense! He balled out in Buffalo, through snowballs, hostile fans, against a great defense. He took a hit to the head against Green Bay. We all know how the year went down. If you're still doubting his ability, then you're just lying to yourself because you don't want to be wrong. With that being said, he absolutely needs to quit getting hurt. That is the only thing testing my patience with him right now.

 

First QB we've had since Marino that could engineer that type of comeback. No QB we've had since Marino could "carry" the team like that when the rest of the team was faltering until we got Tua.

Season can't start soon enough.

 

Disagree on football IQ. He is also very good in pocket presence and elite in footwork. Arm strength and athleticism are no worse than average.

 

NFL.com lists him at 6-1 also. People grow. Is there a Tua height conspiracy?

 

What are they trying to prove with the height? Batted balls? Tua had 6 last season. Meanwhile, Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert lead the pack at 24 and 23 respectively.

 

You would think for a guy who gets the snap and throws the ball immediately to a predetermined spot he would have more than six batted balls.

 

LOL at "people grow." No conspiracy. He was listed 6' 1'' at Alabama. He or his marketing team have been misrepresenting his height. Simple as. His actual measurements show he's 6 feet. No big deal. Just if you want to be accurate about Tua, he's the 3rd smallest QB in the NFL.

 

Can you talk about Tuas ability to layer the football with touch?

Can you talk about the anticipation?

Can you talk about the innate accuracy?

Can you talk about that wicked fast release?

 

You sure do go out of your way to prove a useless point that none gives a **** about.

Did you miss the part where Tua gets 3 times less as many batter balls as Burrow and Co?

Can you talk about Tuas ability to manipulate defenders with his eyes?

 

Take it up with NFL.com and pro football reference. I will use the information on the league's official website, thanks.

 

No, there are a few haters that simply hate.

 

It's almost like they are fixated on Tua's "short"comings and ignore all other QB's flaws..... oh, wait. That is exactly what they are doing.

 

You do combine some pretty odd posts. Here, you list 4 things you'd prefer the dolphin's QB to have (all things that you perceive as problems for Tua), then post this:

Weird that you listed his health 4th on your list. You also don't list those things that you prefer to have IN ADDITION to Tua's strengths. That would require that you acknowledge Tua's strengths.

You rarely mention what Tua does well or the games he excelled in (other than when you are trying to remove those games as outliers). You have made DOZENS of posts knocking the play of a QB that you claim you don't need to see any more from. At least the other anti-Tua posters (and you are) have the balls to stick by their opinion, post by post. I can at least respect that. You are playing some game where if Tua is ultimately successful, you can pull up "i don't need to see anything playwise from Tua." and if he fails you can point to dozens of your "concerns".

You also attack posts that mention Tua in a positive light, even when those posts don't mention you or any of your posts.

This is all only bizarre because we are on a DOLPHINS FAN BOARD. Ultimately, your posts on this topic offer absolutely no value or insight to me, so I'll just ignore them. I'd appreciate it if you'd ignore mine as well. We can have a permanent "Agree to disagree" on this topic.

 

A 5-10 QB is about to get drafted #1 overall this year. The league is less prototypical than it once was- and simply for the fact that certain traits are hard to suddenly learn in the NFL. Josh Allen improving his accuracy after he was drafted is an aberration and not the norm.

 

He still struggles with accuracy, but your point is well taken.

 

Actually there's been a ton of questions about Young going #1 for the exact reason that he doesn't have a prototypical build. I think betting odds right now have Stroud going #1. TBD, but point remains.

 

I'm not ignorant to that, but the rest of his skill set is being valued higher (things beside raw physical height and weight) to the point where there is a strong chance he gets picked #1 overall.

 

All other things being equal, I don't anyone would prefer the smaller QB. The problem is that it is very rare that all other things are equal. There are far more prototypical sized QBs currently in the league that I would not trade Tua for than the prototypical sized QBs that I would trade Tua for. I suspect that list will shrink even more during this upcoming season.

 

You better have some big time tools to offset your height. It's a disadvantage. Even Tua recently said he has problems seeing over the line. Russell Wilson and Murray have/had that. Big time tools. Two way athletes.

 

Murray has struggled operating within the framework of a traditional offense and now has work ethic issues that have come to light over the past year or two.

Russell Wilson is most likely a future hall-of-famer and was in a much more stable environment in his hey-days in Seattle which allowed him to flourish earlier in his career than Tua- and that's not to take anything away from Wilson.

I think Tua has some big time tools- anticipation, accuracy, and his footwork/technicality within a pocket. These are things that aren't conveniently presented in player profile measurables, but bear out in most of the important passing statistics he put up over the past year that have been shared ad nauseum in this thread.

 

Fair critiques for sure. It's reminiscent of all the times over the years we've talked about Tom Brady and how if you can just hit him early and apply pressure with the front 4 he's beatable. Now before anyone throws their ***, I'm NOT comparing Tua to Tom Brady. Only pointing out that even some of the great QBs over the years have had weaknesses.

Here's the problem with analyzing things as a FAN(atic): Team and player performance is always discussed in a vacuum without respect for the opposing team and what they are doing. And current state is always assumed that it will contine in perpetuity. Even most of the talking heads that are paid ridiculous sums to discuss sports do it.

For everything Tua does, there is a defense out there trying to stop it. He's going to win some and he's going to lose some. Throws, plays, quarters, games, etc. A players job and career is judged by if they win more than they lose. The sample size is still pretty small, but as fans we should be impressed by what Tua did last season. When healthy he was winning more than he was losing. He also improved DRASTICALLY. Injury risks (which are significant!) aside, he's trending in the right direction. This season should be telling. IF he can remain mostly healthy, we should know everything we need to know about Tua.

 

Agree to disagree. I wouldn't consider those tools. More opinion based statements where scouting can differ greatly.

 

Why was Drew Brees successful? You act like you can predict the success of a QB using only a tape measure, scale, stop watch, and radar gun. Many teams have tried to select QBs using only what they can do in shorts. It fails more often than not.

Sorry, but release, accuracy, anticipation, eye manipulation, footwork, and pocket awareness are all tools and Tua has them.

 

One side: "Yes, height, weight, speed are tools but Tua has these other things that can overcome the fact that he isn't prototypical in those areas."

The other side: "Yeah I don't consider those tools because it is inconsistent with my argument."

Its not even worth the time.

 

All after watching Tua outplay nearly every prototypical sized QBs (and the two QBs mentioned in his reply) last season....

 

Drew Brees was a massive athlete. Two way athlete. You can listen to someone who actually coached Brees. He doesn't think Tua and Brees are comparable.

 

Go ahead and prove Tua's "footwork/technicality" is better than another QB. I'll wait here.

What I'm saying is you are stating things that can't actually be proven, and can differ greatly between evaluators. Those aren't tools.

 

Before I waste my time, what would be a qualifier for you? I feel like you don't even have an answer for that.

Pre-draft report? Expert opinion? PFF rating?

 

What's your qualifier? What are you basing he has really good footwork on? You are stating something that's an opinion. Like saying someone is a good singer. Two people can have a different evaluation. If you find a report that says Tua has good footwork, can I find a report that says Tua's footwork needs improvement. Does that report negate yours?

 

He led the league in passer rating and YPA and many other statistics.

To continue your analogy, you could look at a singer that sells the most albums in a year and say "eh, IMO, they can't sing." Guess what? That doesn't change their success.

 

Let me provide further context. If you go back to the draft thread in 2020, resnor was an anti-Tua poster whose primary argument was that Tua's success in Alabama was due almost entirely to his surrounding cast and not Tua. Yes there were some issues raised about Tua's physical limitations but that wasn't the main argument. The main argument was Tua not having elite ability as a QB. He left open the possibility he could be wrong (though unlikely), but for the first 2 years of Tua's play he never had to exercise that option.

Then came 2022, and after the Baltimore game and sustained elite play by Tua he gradually morphed into a solidly pro-Tua poster, making it clear he was wrong about his initial views of Tua. So far so good. But then the injuries and SF, LA etc. happened, and that's when he not just flipped back — making it crystal clear that his original intuition was correct and that he was completely mistaken to have gone pro-Tua — he made it clear this time there was no more uncertainty about his stance. One of his main arguments since that time has been that Tua's elite play in 2022 was a fluke. In fact he's the one that introduced the Foles comparison and kept pushing it.

So yes, ever since going back to anti-Tua (and this time with no uncertainty) he has been claiming that Tua's playmaking ability is a major part of the problem, not just health. People can flip flop if they want, but this is not what flip flopping by resnor looks like. You'll know it when you see it. It'll be post after post proclaiming his new view as well as liking posts by a whole different group of posters. So you're right to point out he's still anti-Tua. He is a Dolphins fan, but he's definitely anti-Tua (for the moment I guess).

 

This is exactly what I was going to say- all of these positive and objective statistics from Tua's 2022-2023 season don't count either.

What's the point or arguing with a brick wall?

 

But he was not fast and didn't use his legs very much. Brees had one season in his entire career with more than 100 yards rushing.

Brees was the same height, and was lighter, and less of a threat with his legs than Tua, so his "massive" athleticism was not brought to the football field. Nothing you write makes any sense.

 

Payton = "I don't know if Tua is as big as Drew."

Sean, buddy, you can look this **** up....

 

So then by that logic his footwork in 2020-2021 was really bad, and then he massively improved his footwork in 2022 but the final month of his 2022 season, his footwork went bad again. Got it.

 

So Sean Payton's words are gospel, right?

Well, at the 2:00 minute mark, Payton says "It's hard to play in one of these RPO systems, where at the snap of the ball you're having to decide not only who am I throwing it to, but am I handing it off to the runner or throwing it."

WHOA WHOA WHOA there Mr Payton. We've got experts here who claim those decisions are made for Tua..... LOL.

 

By the same token, do the prototypical QBs shrink during the games they don't play as well? Does their velocity drop? Do they get lighter? slower? You. Make. No. Sense.

 

Brees also ran an incredibly fast 4.85 at his respective NFL combine.

Meanwhile on a hurt knee..

 

This is pretty reductionist and makes no sense.