Tua...''He's the greatest prospect ever''

Remember this?

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

Remember this?

a few times.

Thats the whole point of this thread, if you listen to the media they don't have the ability to see the talant.

But as we can see, if we really focus, its special.

just watch at 17 how fast, the mechanics of throwing the football, how special it is.

I'm honestly amazed that so many people forgot about Tua's performance at Bama. He was a monster. He fell victim to the addiction that sports media has with using negative attention for ratings. They gave up on him without consideration for whether his early play was indicative of his potential.

The media isn't about analysis nearly as much as it's about clicks. When Burrow and Herbert got off to a hot start and people inevitably compared them to Tua, the race was on to not only question the pick, but to do it at the cost of disparaging the player. There guys (and gals) on panel shows writing receipts about how he wasn't skilled enough to be elite. Skip Bayless (who still insists he's below average because he's literally incapable of admitting he's ever been wrong). Stephen A. Smith. Mina Kimes. Chris Canty. Even Joy, who is unquestionably a Dolphins fan, was kicking him.

They took pleasure in it, too. They laughed when Cheetah said Tua was the most accurate QB he'd played with. They laughed when he connected on a 50 yard pass in practice because it wobbled a bit at the end, even though they previously said he couldn't throw that far. The breathlessly speculated on how good the Dolphins would be with DeShaun Watson or Tom Brady, who was being held together with duct tape at that point.

They breathed a collective sigh of relief when he was injured last season because they could stop talking about his capabilities - which they'd all whiffed on after his hot start - and shift the discussion to his health. I was looking for the narrative about Lamar Jackson's health for an entire offseason and never heard it anywhere. Tua was smudged for trying to come back and play before he was 100% but nobody said **** about Lamar refusing to suit up in spite of reports that he was at no risk of further injury. And his team made the playoffs without him; how much better would they have been with him?

Sorry about the book, but I'm happy right now. Maybe happier about the Fins than I've been since #13 hung up his cleats. I hope Tua continues writing one of the best sports redemption stories I can recall. Even yet, he's got some mouths to shut.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I'm honestly amazed that so many people forgot about Tua's performance at Bama. He was a monster. He fell victim to the addiction that sports media has with using negative attention for ratings. They gave up on him without consideration for whether his early play was indicative of his potential.

The media isn't about analysis nearly as much as it's about clicks. When Burrow and Herbert got off to a hot start and people inevitably compared them to Tua, the race was on to not only question the pick, but to do it at the cost of disparaging the player. There guys (and gals) on panel shows writing receipts about how he wasn't skilled enough to be elite. Skip Bayless (who still insists he's below average because he's literally incapable of admitting he's ever been wrong). Stephen A. Smith. Mina Kimes. Chris Canty. Even Joy, who is unquestionably a Dolphins fan, was kicking him.

They took pleasure in it, too. They laughed when Cheetah said Tua was the most accurate QB he'd played with. They laughed when he connected on a 50 yard pass in practice because it wobbled a bit at the end, even though they previously said he couldn't throw that far. The breathlessly speculated on how good the Dolphins would be with DeShaun Watson or Tom Brady, who was being held together with duct tape at that point.

They breathed a collective sigh of relief when he was injured last season because they could stop talking about his capabilities - which they'd all whiffed on after his hot start - and shift the discussion to his health. I was looking for the narrative about Lamar Jackson's health for an entire offseason and never heard it anywhere. Tua was smudged for trying to come back and play before he was 100% but nobody said **** about Lamar refusing to suit up in spite of reports that he was at no risk of further injury. And his team made the playoffs without him; how much better would they have been with him?

Sorry about the book, but I'm happy right now. Maybe happier about the Fins than I've been since #13 hung up his cleats. I hope Tua continues writing one of the best sports redemption stories I can recall. Even yet, he's got some mouths to shut.

The idiots who dont know how to evaluate players took what he did at bama and made it a narrative, and that narrative was

“He’s a product of all the skill players around him” the haters and ignorant said.

They don’t get it. Tua’s skillset allows these hi levels skill players to be their best, a less talented Qb would not be able to exploit the system or the skill players because they can not process, function, nor execute the play with elite play speed and accuracy..

What target is harder to hit ACCURATELY for a Qb?

Brian hartline running at full speed

Or the lightning fast Tyreek Hill

It is much more difficult to measure, calculate and to be accurate with the former

That’s what all the haters and current so called experts don’t talk about and what the haters never understood and continue to not recognize.

The whole fucking narrative needs to change

A lot of what passes for evaluation in the commenteriate is limited to what they can see.
- Herbert has a monster arm and because of that he's great.
- Lamar Jackson rushes like a video game character and because of that he's great.
- Mahomes makes crazy off platform throws and because of that he's great.
I'm making no comment on the quality of the QBs above, just saying that it's easy to say they're great based on lazy analysis.

To analyse Tua properly requires a deeper understanding of the game. He isn't doing freakishly athletic things. Every QB in the league can make the throws Tua does. What Tua is doing though is making those plays with razor thin margins for error time and time again. To the point where other QBs won't attempt a lot his throws because the risk factor is too high for them.

To analyse Tua properly you have to understand timing, accuracy, and the decision making process. The majority of pundits commentating about the NFL just don't have understanding of the game to understand what separates Tua over other more physically gifted QBs

The problem is people have become enamored with throwing the ball far and running fast.

Playing quarterback used to be standing in the pocket and delivering the ball on time with accuracy and anticipation.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

The problem is people have become enamored with throwing the ball far and running fast.

Playing quarterback used to be standing in the pocket and delivering the ball on time with accuracy and anticipation.

We have a few posters who leaned hard into the "strong arm" narrative. They never said how strong that arm needs to be. People were posting here about being able to throw the ball 60 yards, yet there are fewer than a dozen completions every season of that distance. If a QB can throw the ball 80 yards, that's all good. But since most plays are run with less than 80 yards to the end zone, it's entirely unnecessary. It's just a silly bell or whistle to brag about, like having all-wheel drive in a place where you don't drive off-road and it rarely rains or snows.

Then, when it turns out Tua has a ridiculous YPA and connects on the highest percentage of passes beyond 5 yards AND 15 yards, they regard it as "cherry-picked stats". There's no way to win the argument because when they said he didn't measure up to their ideal for a QB, they intentionally listed attributes they didn't think he could master. Then when he did, they find new ones. In the end, they fall back on the eye test and personal preference, which nobody can ever objectively debunk.

It's really not worth arguing with them about it, which is why I stopped engaging.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

We have a few posters who leaned hard into the "strong arm" narrative.

Jay Cutler had one of the strongest arms ever in the NFL- he could throw 90 yards sitting backwards in a chair while smoking a cigarette (as the meme claims...). And those same posters who insisted that we needed a strong armed QB hated Cutler just as much as they hate Tua.

Tannehill was a strong armed QB. Henne was a strong armed QB. Heck, my boy Matt Moore was a strong armed QB. They didn't like none of them either. For what it's worth, they generally loved Pennington though...figure that one out.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

We have a few posters who leaned hard into the "strong arm" narrative. They never said how strong that arm needs to be. People were posting here about being able to throw the ball 60 yards, yet there are fewer than a dozen completions every season of that distance. If a QB can throw the ball 80 yards, that's all good. But since most plays are run with less than 80 yards to the end zone, it's entirely unnecessary. It's just a silly bell or whistle to brag about, like having all-wheel drive in a place where you don't drive off-road and it rarely rains or snows.

Then, when it turns out Tua has a ridiculous YPA and connects on the highest percentage of passes beyond 5 yards AND 15 yards, they regard it as "cherry-picked stats". There's no way to win the argument because when they said he didn't measure up to their ideal for a QB, they intentionally listed attributes they didn't think he could master. Then when he did, they find new ones. In the end, they fall back on the eye test and personal preference, which nobody can ever objectively debunk.

It's really not worth arguing with them about it, which is why I stopped engaging.

Yeah we’ll anyone who doesnt see it at this point like Bayless and cowturd are complete morons

The only bad part about that video was when he described Sam Darnold as "ice cream."

Good stuff... been a long time! I hope everyone is good. I'm psyched out of my mind for this team!

"djphinfan wrote:

Its two minutes of prophetic wisdom from an expert teacher.

another quote from Dilfer.

''Deep down he's an assassin''...''he will assess every day what he's not good at, and then make himself be the best at it''

Love the quote from Dilfer and how he worked with Aaron rogers and says ''its not even close to where they were at when their career started''

From the prestigious Elite 11 showcase that is the countries finest collection of qb talent to possible NFL MVP, I made this post because don't let anyone tell ya differently,

Relatively speaking, This QB Tua is not being lifted by players or scheme, his unique special talent is lifting and exploiting everything around him.

I'm finding it so interesting how many pundits and so called experts cant find words to understand and express how talented he is, so instead they just regurgitate what they hear from their peers, ''its the scheme, ''its the speed of the players, its mike mcdaniel'', its tyreek'', it's the motion'', he's a good distrubutor of the ball''

What they don't get at all is those things require an incredible hi level talent to process, anticipate and execute at the speed for which he does.

Tua's elite talent has manifested itself into processing faster and more accurate than anyone else at his craft. People wanna talk about the speed of the team, well, the fastest of them all is Tua at the position.

That's what the narrative should be, that's what these so called experts should be talking about, but they can't, because they don't understand it, only Dilfer had the balls to say it early and publicly, and he was absolutely correct.

''Tua is the most TALENTED prospect i've ever seen''

pretty cool imo.:)

I've always said their are players that can see it and do it before others can even comprehend it. Like they see the future before it happens. Those that don't have the skill or talent can't comprehend it. Coaches that don't understand it can't coach it (Gase) Those that have the gift can't always explain it because they don't know anything differently.

"KeyFin wrote:

Jay Cutler had one of the strongest arms ever in the NFL- he could throw 90 yards sitting backwards in a chair while smoking a cigarette (as the meme claims...). And those same posters who insisted that we needed a strong armed QB hated Cutler just as much as they hate Tua.

Tannehill was a strong armed QB. Henne was a strong armed QB. Heck, my boy Matt Moore was a strong armed QB. They didn't like none of them either. For what it's worth, they generally loved Pennington though...figure that one out.

I heard Gase hated Moore because Moore would throw to the open guy, like Doughty, but Gase wanted him throwing through to the designed player regardless of circumstance.

"dolphin25 wrote:

I heard Gase hated Moore because Moore would throw to the open guy, like Doughty, but Gase wanted him throwing through to the designed player regardless of circumstance.

There’s a guy who should have never been a head coach.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

We have a few posters who leaned hard into the "strong arm" narrative. They never said how strong that arm needs to be. People were posting here about being able to throw the ball 60 yards, yet there are fewer than a dozen completions every season of that distance. If a QB can throw the ball 80 yards, that's all good. But since most plays are run with less than 80 yards to the end zone, it's entirely unnecessary. It's just a silly bell or whistle to brag about, like having all-wheel drive in a place where you don't drive off-road and it rarely rains or snows.

Then, when it turns out Tua has a ridiculous YPA and connects on the highest percentage of passes beyond 5 yards AND 15 yards, they regard it as "cherry-picked stats". There's no way to win the argument because when they said he didn't measure up to their ideal for a QB, they intentionally listed attributes they didn't think he could master. Then when he did, they find new ones. In the end, they fall back on the eye test and personal preference, which nobody can ever objectively debunk.

It's really not worth arguing with them about it, which is why I stopped engaging.

When you throw as accurately as Tua does, and you have targets as fast as Hill, Waddle, Mostert and Achane, you don’t need a particularly strong arm.

I’m not saying that Tua has a weak throw, but it is plenty strong enough for McDaniel's schemes.

"Phil Hutchings wrote:

When you throw as accurately as Tua does, and you have targets as fast as Hill, Waddle, Mostert and Achane, you don’t need a particularly strong arm.

I’m not saying that Tua has a weak throw, but it is plenty strong enough for McDaniel's schemes.

The thing is this: The QBs known for having strong arms somehow are averaging fewer YPA than Tua has for the past two seasons. When you consider that his downfield accuracy is among the best in the league, it makes me wonder how strong a QB's arm needs to be. It makes for a nifty highlight but from a strategic standpoint, its value is far overrated (unless we're talking about hail Mary's).

Justin Herbert (for example) has what everybody knows to be a cannon. Even with a higher completion percentage right now, he's averaging 2.8 fewer yards per attempt than Tua. He's by any metric an excellent QB but he's not going downfield as often or with the accuracy that Tua is. It just leads me to conclude that it can't hurt to have a strong-armed QB but if it only results in 3-5 completions per year with 50+ air yards, it's value is less tactical than it is opportunistic.

Would I prefer a QB who can launch rockets with all other things being equal? Heck yeah. But since things aren't equal, I'm more than happy with a guy whose arm is strong enough.

Tua vaults Mahomes to take the top spot in nfl.com's QB index:

Rank
1 Tua Tagovailoa
Miami Dolphins · Year 4

2023 stats: 3 games | 71.3 pct | 1,024 pass yds | 10.1 ypa | 8 pass TD | 2 INT | 8 rush yds | 0 rush TD | 4 fumbles

There isn't a quarterback on earth playing better football than Tagovailoa, and no coach and quarterback are more in sync than Tagovailoa and Mike McDaniel. Just look at his perfect 16-for-16 first half in Sunday's 70-point outburst. Tagovailoa is putting together a special season, helping the Dolphins emerge as a new power in the AFC. I'm practically gobsmacked by how easy they're making it look right now.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-4-tua-tagovailoa-vaults-patrick-mahomes-to-take-no-1-spot

I also posted this in the game thread just now, but I'll drop this here for those who think Tua is a one-read spot thrower:

"djphinfan wrote:

Its two minutes of prophetic wisdom from an expert teacher.

another quote from Dilfer.

''Deep down he's an assassin''...''he will assess every day what he's not good at, and then make himself be the best at it''

Love the quote from Dilfer and how he worked with Aaron rogers and says ''its not even close to where they were at when their career started''

From the prestigious Elite 11 showcase that is the countries finest collection of qb talent to possible NFL MVP, I made this post because don't let anyone tell ya differently,

Relatively speaking, This QB Tua is not being lifted by players or scheme, his unique special talent is lifting and exploiting everything around him.

I'm finding it so interesting how many pundits and so called experts cant find words to understand and express how talented he is, so instead they just regurgitate what they hear from their peers, ''its the scheme, ''its the speed of the players, its mike mcdaniel'', its tyreek'', it's the motion'', he's a good distrubutor of the ball''

What they don't get at all is those things require an incredible hi level talent to process, anticipate and execute at the speed for which he does.

Tua's elite talent has manifested itself into processing faster and more accurate than anyone else at his craft. People wanna talk about the speed of the team, well, the fastest of them all is Tua at the position.

That's what the narrative should be, that's what these so called experts should be talking about, but they can't, because they don't understand it, only Dilfer had the balls to say it early and publicly, and he was absolutely correct.

''Tua is the most TALENTED prospect i've ever seen''

pretty cool imo.:)

Thanks, hadn't seen that before. Made me Dad proud of that young man.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I also posted this in the game thread just now, but I'll drop this here for those who think Tua is a one-read spot thrower:

might explain Tua’s hitch/hesitation on last week’s 54-yard TD pass to Tyreek Hill — Hill ran the wrong route 😂 pic.twitter.com/nb6cXKQdbA

— Marcel Louis-Jacques (@Marcel_LJ) September 28, 2023

Wait...WHAT?! That play was something that needs to be cleaned up in practice??? Tyreek Effs UP for a TD.

"djphinfan wrote:

The idiots who dont know how to evaluate players took what he did at bama and made it a narrative, and that narrative was

“He’s a product of all the skill players around him” the haters and ignorant said.

They don’t get it. Tua’s skillset allows these hi levels skill players to be their best, a less talented Qb would not be able to exploit the system or the skill players because they can not process, function, nor execute the play with elite play speed and accuracy..

What target is harder to hit ACCURATELY for a Qb?

Brian hartline running at full speed

Or the lightning fast Tyreek Hill

It is much more difficult to measure, calculate and to be accurate with the former

That’s what all the haters and current so called experts don’t talk about and what the haters never understood and continue to not recognize.

The whole ****ing narrative needs to change

What exactly did he do at Bama that was so out of the ordinary for a Bama QB? Mac Jones and Tua had virtially identical numbers and results playing QB at Bama with an all star cast around them. And they both had similar ordinary numbers their first couple years in the league while playing with less elite players around them. Tua has jumped ahead of Jones now because he got hill and Waddle and is throwing to all stars again, but given the same supporting cast, Jones and Tua are about the same level of QB imo. Both good, but not really great in the sense that they cannot play great unless they have a great supporting cast.

"hitman8 wrote:

What exactly did he do at Bama that was so out of the ordinary for a Bama QB? Mac Jones and Tua had virtially identical numbers and results playing QB at Bama with an all star cast around them. And they both had similar ordinary numbers their first couple years in the league while playing with less elite players around them. Tua has jumped ahead of Jones now because he got hill and Waddle and is throwing to all stars again, but given the same supporting cast, Jones and Tua are about the same level of QB imo. Both good, but not really great in the sense that they cannot play great unless they have a great supporting cast.

Get lost. LOL

"hitman8 wrote:

What exactly did he do at Bama that was so out of the ordinary for a Bama QB? Mac Jones and Tua had virtially identical numbers and results playing QB at Bama with an all star cast around them. And they both had similar ordinary numbers their first couple years in the league while playing with less elite players around them. Tua has jumped ahead of Jones now because he got hill and Waddle and is throwing to all stars again, but given the same supporting cast, Jones and Tua are about the same level of QB imo. Both good, but not really great in the sense that they cannot play great unless they have a great supporting cast.

Bryan Flores would definitely agree with you.

"hitman8 wrote:

What exactly did he do at Bama that was so out of the ordinary for a Bama QB? Mac Jones and Tua had virtially identical numbers and results playing QB at Bama with an all star cast around them. And they both had similar ordinary numbers their first couple years in the league while playing with less elite players around them. Tua has jumped ahead of Jones now because he got hill and Waddle and is throwing to all stars again, but given the same supporting cast, Jones and Tua are about the same level of QB imo. Both good, but not really great in the sense that they cannot play great unless they have a great supporting cast.

I get what you’re saying but here’s where/why I’m going to disagree with you.

That brutal west coast road trip we had last season…against San Francisco and San Diego (yes I still say San Diego), those two teams had studied the Dolphins offense and was able to essentially shut down Hill and Waddle. McDaniel’s offense was still being run according to its blueprint and McDaniel didn’t have an adjustment to make. Rookie head coach. Kinda expected.

During the offseason, McDaniel studied film and saw how the defenses of both of those teams were able to shut his 2 Star receivers down, so he made adjustments to his offensive scheme.

instead of bringing his receivers in full motion across the offense, he adapted and had Hill/waddle motion out from the H back position, thus creating space for his speedy receivers to be open almost instantly.

So you can’t say it’s just Tua and Hill&Waddle. That’s just too simple. You have to figure in the adjustment to the offense that McDaniel implemented that’s once again propelled the Miami Dolphins to the number 1 offensive ranking, causing yet more sleepless nights for defensive coordinators.