Trouble Brewing in the Locker Room?

"ckparrothead wrote:

You know you don't HAVE to have a general disposition where you treat everyone like an a-hole, right?

Interesting.

"Fin D wrote:

Sigh.

The wallace thing is completely overblown. The middle finger was a joke. And I don't know what the Soliai thing is about other than his agent is trying to get him a better deal.

None of this is troubling. All of it is silly manipulation tactics by Armando, like he does EVERY year.

I am not reading the other pages of this thread, so sorry if youve already answered this...but how was Starks middle finger a joke?

"GMJohnson wrote:

Mike Wallace is pissed b/c he didn't have a good game and so he declines an opportunity to answer stupid ass'd questions from stupid ass'd reporters. Do I have that correct or is there some anti-Sherman/Philbin rant that I'm unaware of?

Soliai and Starks are in the last year of their deals (again), they want (have earned?) extensions yet they're watching hundreds of millions being doled out to just about everyone but them. So yeah, I can imagine there's some consternation there. So what? They still went out and played borderline dominant football against one of the better OLines they'll face this year.

I understand people have jobs to do and traffic to attract but this is pretty pathetic.

This is it exactly. I'd also add that just because something made headlines does not make it significant. Armando got himself mentioned on the national media with his "news" about Wallace being grumpy after the game. (Though Wallace didn't actually call anyone out, as has been claimed. He didn't want to talk, when pressed he directed the questions to his coaches.) So Armando triples down, in hopes of generating more national buzz, by including that, Canter's tweets and the completely fictional reason behind the Starks bird.

And people are gobbling this up like its porn wrapped in bacon.

"ckparrothead wrote:

All three problems are concerning in their own way, which is something that I think Armando tried to lay out and did a pretty good job.

The Paul Soliai thing is concerning because this is a guy that LOVES South Florida (much as Jake Long LOVED South Florida), and really wants to be here. I don't think it's any secret that the contract he took to stay here two years ago had the look of a home team discount that fully took account of (even though he didn't have to) the fact that the Dolphins had just paid him $9 million on a one year deal with the franchise tag. That was how they (Soliai and Canter) justified it on their end, because they left a lot of money on the table to come back for that deal. They didn't have to look at it that way. They could have said, what you already paid me on the franchise tag is history. You can't get it back. You better make me an offer that compares with the offers I'm receiving from other teams. Other teams that offered him certainly weren't about to look at his compensation from the Dolphins in 2011 on the franchise tag and figure that in as a "sunken cost" that they should get credit for. Soliai and his agent easily could have rejected such notions, but they didn't.

Now, what they're turned off by are the Dolphins' TACTICS. We should take note of this, because there are reports out there right now, including straight out of the horse's mouth from Jake Long himself, saying that the Dolphins offered similar money to the Rams and even though he loved South Florida and his wife CLEARLY didn't want to leave (and she did make that pretty effing clear), they left. They packed their bags and moved to a completely alien town.

What turned them off? If the Dolphins made an offer commensurate with what the Rams offered (which many people here on this board have fully acknowledged, as it's commonly used as a counter-point to those who criticize the Dolphins for not re-signing Jake), then the Dolphins clearly wanted him back. We have our own "inside" sources so to speak who corroborated this, that the feeling from within the Dolphins building is that they tried their hardest to get Jake back and he chose to leave.

That's a loss, then. You can claim well big Jake is playing poorly and he's injury prone, yadda yadda yadda, but that wasn't Miami's thinking. If those reports are true that they offered as much as the Rams, they WANTED him back...and they lost the battle to the Rams. Why?

I think David Canter and Paul Soliai are giving us more clues to the puzzle of how that came about. It's their TACT. And that is a big time concern, IMO. That means we're losing guys that otherwise would be here, and it's not because of money. We're not losing them because we just weren't willing to pay up. We're losing them because of our tactics and bedside manner.

And that's a damn sin. That should never happen. Financial decisions are difficult enough without adding that kind of dead waste to the pile.

my question is why would a player care about the business part of the club he joins/extends...your agent is doing this, you just sign the dotted line when its finished, after that you are done with the business part and play football, so you don't deal with this "department" anymore

Just shooting from the hip here, but with all of the roster turnover from 2008 to 2012, Miami never really had to re-sign a key player until Paul Soliai before last season. Perhaps it's something that Jeff Ireland just isn't all that experienced at doing since this is his first gig as GM. Dawn Aponte clearly seems like she wants the contract done by the numbers, so it's up to Jeff Ireland to handle how tactfully these negotiations play out.

Well, we know what we've heard from guys like Channing Crowder, Joey Porter, Ryan Clark, etc. in the past about Jeff Ireland (and solely Jeff Ireland, not Ireland and Parcells), and it's not pretty. Now we're hearing it from an agent. Even Reshad Jones missed a day of OTAs (for whatever his actual "reason" was) right when word surfaced about his extension. Of course, on the flip side, we didn't hear a peep either way about Brian Hartline or Koa Misi's recent extensions.

So, to me, it seems as if he's handling situations differently in each scenario, as he should. But based on Jeff's history, his appearance on Hard Knocks, what players have said about him in the past, the run-in with the fan, etc. I have trouble believing he's communicating as effectively as he could or should be in these negotiations. And it's something I think he lacks practice in. He wasn't the GM in Dallas, and as many on here acknowledge, Bill Parcells was effectively running things through the end of 2010. I think this is new territory for him, and in essence, he's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar in certain situations.

You can't read more into it than it really is.Soliai might just have had another bad hair day,Wallace is just another primadonna wide reciever and Starks more than likely was just letting the coaching understand staff that was number one of many victories to come this season.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

I am not reading the other pages of this thread, so sorry if youve already answered this...but how was Starks middle finger a joke?

Have you never flipped off a friend as a joke?

Imagine you're playing baseball, and you're 2 friends each hit home runs. They keep giving you playful crap that they've hit homeruns and you haven't. You the step up and knock one out of the park. You turn to the dugout and give them the bird to tell your friends they can suck it. He said it was joke. Either he's a liar or it was a joke.

"Fin D wrote:

Have you never flipped off a friend as a joke?

Imagine you're playing baseball, and you're 2 friends each hit home runs. They keep giving you playful crap that they've hit homeruns and you haven't. You the step up and knock one out of the park. You turn to the dugout and give them the bird to tell your friends they can suck it. He said it was joke. Either he's a liar or it was a joke.

Well I hadnt heard he said it was a joke, thats why I asked. What context did he provide for it being a joke exactly?

Also, as far as your scenario, id say I talked a lot crap to my friends plenty of times during ball. I just would never do something while on the field during an actual game that everyone could tell. Although I did hit a homerun my junior year and do the rick flair at the plate once, but that was because the other team was talking ****.

EDIT: I guess by reading your post again he was saying that everyone was giving him **** because everyone was getting sacks and he wasnt? If that is the case I kind of get it. But he should be better then that. Ill wait to hold of judgement if thats his story and see how he acts in the upcoming days to weeks. Honestly, that could get him a pass in my book if the story checks out.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Well I hadnt heard he said it was a joke, thats why I asked. What context did he provide for it being a joke exactly?

Also, as far as your scenario, id say I talked a lot crap to my friends plenty of times during ball. I just would never do something while on the field during an actual game that everyone could tell. Although I did hit a homerun my junior year and do the rick flair at the plate once, but that was because the other team was talking ****.

EDIT: I guess by reading your post again he was saying that everyone was giving him **** because everyone was getting sacks and he wasnt? If that is the case I kind of get it. But he should be better then that. Ill wait to hold of judgement if thats his story and see how he acts in the upcoming days to weeks. Honestly, that could get him a pass in my book if the story checks out.

Yeah, he said it was joke. I see no reason to not believe him. It probably wasn't the smartest thing to do considering the cameras and NFL policy, but I think its being waaaaaaaaaaaay over blown.

"Fin D wrote:

This is it exactly. I'd also add that just because something made headlines does not make it significant. Armando got himself mentioned on the national media with his "news" about Wallace being grumpy after the game. (Though Wallace didn't actually call anyone out, as has been claimed. He didn't want to talk, when pressed he directed the questions to his coaches.) So Armando triples down, in hopes of generating more national buzz, by including that, Canter's tweets and the completely fictional reason behind the Starks bird.

And people are gobbling this up like its porn wrapped in bacon.

This was my initial reaction as well. I believe Barry Jackson noted in a recent Sports Buzz column that Starks' flipping of the bird was completely fraternal.

I think this is way overblown. (Damn it D, you ninja'd mah phrase!)

"invid wrote:

This was my initial reaction as well. I believe Barry Jackson noted in a recent Sports Buzz column that Starks' flipping of the bird was completely fraternal.

I think this is way overblown. (Damn it D, you ninja'd mah phrase!)

That phrase belongs to me now.

"Muck wrote:

You may not appreciate him bringing to light problems with the team, but I DEFINITELY do.

These aren't mole hills, these are very real. And all three of them are being played out in public. Soliai's agent was airing it out on Twitter Saturday. He and Soliai are fed up and he basically declared that they're gone short of regime change. Starks has been pissed for quite awhile with his situation. He's said so publicly. Mike Wallace was brooding yesterday.

This coach had better get it under control (as far as he has control). To this point, we've seen multiple cases of Joe Philbin excommunicating conflict rather than dealing with it head-on. We need to see these things addressed. The larger point, though, is that he's let the Starks situation fester. You can't let things fester.

This is all very important and I think we as fans need to pay attention.

The good news is they can resolve two of these issues easily. The Wallace situation, they should regardless of whether he's upset.

Spot on, and I totally agree, Philbin must be both quick and desisive or things will get ugly fast!

As for the business end Jeff Ireland needs to act or his positive work concerning our DL will blow up in his face!

"ckparrothead wrote:

All three problems are concerning in their own way, which is something that I think Armando tried to lay out and did a pretty good job.

The Paul Soliai thing is concerning because this is a guy that LOVES South Florida (much as Jake Long LOVED South Florida), and really wants to be here. I don't think it's any secret that the contract he took to stay here two years ago had the look of a home team discount that fully took account of (even though he didn't have to) the fact that the Dolphins had just paid him $9 million on a one year deal with the franchise tag. That was how they (Soliai and Canter) justified it on their end, because they left a lot of money on the table to come back for that deal. They didn't have to look at it that way. They could have said, what you already paid me on the franchise tag is history. You can't get it back. You better make me an offer that compares with the offers I'm receiving from other teams. Other teams that offered him certainly weren't about to look at his compensation from the Dolphins in 2011 on the franchise tag and figure that in as a "sunken cost" that they should get credit for. Soliai and his agent easily could have rejected such notions, but they didn't.

Now, what they're turned off by are the Dolphins' TACTICS. We should take note of this, because there are reports out there right now, including straight out of the horse's mouth from Jake Long himself, saying that the Dolphins offered similar money to the Rams and even though he loved South Florida and his wife CLEARLY didn't want to leave (and she did make that pretty effing clear), they left. They packed their bags and moved to a completely alien town.

What turned them off? If the Dolphins made an offer commensurate with what the Rams offered (which many people here on this board have fully acknowledged, as it's commonly used as a counter-point to those who criticize the Dolphins for not re-signing Jake), then the Dolphins clearly wanted him back. We have our own "inside" sources so to speak who corroborated this, that the feeling from within the Dolphins building is that they tried their hardest to get Jake back and he chose to leave.

That's a loss, then. You can claim well big Jake is playing poorly and he's injury prone, yadda yadda yadda, but that wasn't Miami's thinking. If those reports are true that they offered as much as the Rams, they WANTED him back...and they lost the battle to the Rams. Why?

I think David Canter and Paul Soliai are giving us more clues to the puzzle of how that came about. It's their TACT. And that is a big time concern, IMO. That means we're losing guys that otherwise would be here, and it's not because of money. We're not losing them because we just weren't willing to pay up. We're losing them because of our tactics and bedside manner.

And that's a damn sin. That should never happen. Financial decisions are difficult enough without adding that kind of dead waste to the pile.

It's certainly possible that their feelings could also be exacerbated by the perception(?) that's out there that Jeff tends to overpay for free agents. If they hear of a Hartline or Wallace making a decent amount of guaranteed bank, I'd think they might get more inclined to get frustrated and question why, in their opinion, they're getting nickeled and dimed to death in their negotiations.

We've made offers to both Soliai and Starks, the team wants them both back, stop low balling them and the deals will get done, we have plenty of cap space, we'd have even more money next year to pay our DT's had we not foolishly just given a 2 down non impact LB over 4 mil a year, but hey that's Ireland for ya. Soliai already did us a huge favor coming back on the cheap for 2 years, now it's time to pay up. And Starks should have never been benched in the first place, Odrick is in no way, shape, or form a better player.

The Wallace situation I'm less worried about, but we should have involved him in the game plan early on, not every throw to him has to be a deep bomb...slants, screens, comebacks, all of these options would have probably been effective and helped our offense score more than 6 points in the first half.

"PhinGeneral wrote:

It's certainly possible that their feelings could also be exacerbated by the perception(?) that's out there that Jeff tends to overpay for free agents. If they hear of a Hartline or Wallace making a decent amount of guaranteed bank, I'd think they might get more inclined to get frustrated and question why, in their opinion, they're getting nickeled and dimed to death in their negotiations.

Also looking at the market, it seems that defensive tackles prices are going down.

Well if Soliai and Starks play like they did yesterday all year then I want them pissed off. Seriously though if it really is bedside manner turning off otherwise loyal guys then there is a problem. If a few kind words are the difference in keeping a guy and losing him why not do a bit of self examination and try to fix that?

"Fin D wrote:

We convincingly win a game where almost no pundits picked us, and we do it in such way that any other recent year would never have seen us do that. Tannehill turns a corner, puts the game on his shoulders with no running game and no Wallace and no Keller and destroys Cleveland.....and people want to pretend a middle finger is a big deal? They want to question the coaching staff's ability to control the team?

I seriously hate this fanbase sometimes.

I can't speak for all outlets. But my favorite pre-game, the NFLN, 3 of the 5 broadcasters picked us, and 56% of the fanbase. And I thought that was low.

Is our goal to keep hovering around mediocrity and that 7-9 to 9-7 range? I thought we had to win yesterday. If we had any hopes to make some noise this year, we needed to beat the Cleveland Browns.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Also looking at the market, it seems that defensive tackles prices are going down.

I also think the F.O. may be only planning to bring one of them back, and that they're playing each one off the other. It's certainly a tactic that can backfire.

The good thing about the regular season is that stories, especially in the case of Wallace, have a short shelf life.

Unless of course the ship is sinking.

I don't get it. Do people really thing Starks flipped off the Dolphins bench out of anger? I thought all along it was a playful gesture with a teammate on the sidelines.

"PhinGeneral wrote:

I also think the F.O. may be only planning to bring one of them back, and that they're playing each one off the other. It's certainly a tactic that can backfire.

The Miami Dolphins are the only team that have 2 Defensive Tackles within the top-10 base salaries for 2013.

Randy Starks because of the tag and Paul Soliai comes in at 5th on the list with 5.7 million.

For what it's worth.

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

I don't get it. Do people really thing Starks flipped off the Dolphins bench out of anger? I thought all along it was a playful gesture with a teammate on the sidelines.

No. Ultimately I don't think any person believes Starks flipped off the Dolphins coaches or front office.

What I think is that by now Randy Starks knows full well that Grampa Joe "Tie Your Shoelaces and Pick Up That Piece of Trash" Philbin despises behavior like that, especially where it can be seen by millions, and that Randy Starks was in a mood where he didn't particularly give a rat's arse what Grampa Joe thinks of his flipping a teammate the bird.

"ckparrothead wrote:

No. Ultimately I don't think any person believes Starks flipped off the Dolphins coaches or front office.

What I think is that by now Randy Starks knows full well that Grampa Joe "Tie Your Shoelaces" Philbin despises behavior like that, especially where it can be seen, and that Randy Starks was in a mood where he didn't particularly give a rat's arse what Grampa Joe thinks of his flipping a teammate the bird.

Awesome narrative you invented, literally out of thin air.

Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 6m

Philbin about to address media for first time since reviewing game footage

Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 3m

Philbin was about to come in and was taken away from team PR man Harvey Greene who asked coach if he had a couple minutes to talk

Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 2m

Philbin is meeting with PR man Harvey Greene and senior VP Dawn Aponte. Press conference was supposed to begin 130pm

Let the conspiracy theory begin... :pointlol:

"toto wrote:

Let the conspiracy theory begin... :pointlol:

*grabs popcorn*