to be or not to be a contender in 2010

i didnt see anything of clemons that made me worry so far, well sean smith is another story though

 

dont see what the worry is with clemons either. i agree however with the fact that we have to start the season firing on all cylinders something we havent done the first two years of the Parcells regime

 

Somewhat agreed... although, I think once the lineup gets more settled, we'll see more consistency. They had two good games, and one bad one. I'll chalk that up to the Atlanta DL. I don't know why, but they match up very good against us, and seem to win the battle of the LOS against our OL... which no other team really has over an entire game.

I am honestly not concerned about the QB position. If all else fails, we got Pennington. I'm convinced we will see marked improvement from Henne, which is all we can ask, and realistically... he is still just a 2nd-year starter. I'm not expecting him to play like a veteran blue-chipper just yet.

I agree with you here... 100%. The bright side is Vontae has seriously elevated his game. The sky is the limit on that guy, and I don't think I'm exaggerating. The dark side is Sean Smith has maturity issues, and is clearly getting left behind. I get the feeling that for all his physical tools, he's going to wind up losing his job to a more consistent performer. Perhaps not this season, but eventually. I honestly hope I'm wrong, and Smith turns it around. I think Chris Clemons is merely holding down the FS position until we find a more 'explosive' starter to replace him. If there's anyone who is going to do it this season, it's Reshad Jones. I think Jones is a future starter. Some people disagree. We'll just wait and see.

We will lose at least one game due to special teams this season. For all the 'special teams aces' we've drafted, traded for, and signed, I have been pretty disappointed.

I have seen the same exact thing, however... it's preseason. Hopefully, we will see a different team come out against Buffalo. Our double-secret offensive defense hasn't been unveiled yet...

For the division/playoffs? If we stay healthy, I say it's a no-brainer... yes.

Will we contend for the Superbowl? No. We are not on the level of the Colts or the Ravens, IMHO. I hope I'm wrong... I reserve the right to change my mind after week 4...

 

I personally think Smith is our best cover corner, I'm more concerned about Davis.

Davis plays the run well, but also has trouble jamming the WR at the line, and when he whiffs at that, he gets beat, and we have seen that this preseason.

 

I strongly disagree here.

When I look at Vonte, I see a guy with star potential. Extremely aggressive and tackles like a LB. Reads and anticipates the game very well. Sniffs out screens and can make the crucial INT as we saw last season. He has gotten burnt on occassion, but I think those instances will be fewer and far between as he gains experience.

When I look at Smith, I see a guy who seems intimidated by the speed of the NFL. Plays timid and scared and hasn't shown the ability to use his body like we thought he'd be able to. Hasn't shown any ability to make a big play and gets burnt just as often as Vonte, if not more. The concern I have with Smith is that I don't see the progression or the potential like I see in Vonte.

At this point, there's not one aspect of the game that I think Smith is better than Vonte at. That includes coverage.

 

The OL was pretty good for two games (other than the penalties) and bad for one. Since they were pretty good last year against most every team not from Atlanta, I'm not overly concerned. I think Atlanta is just a team that gives us fits. Even Jake struggles against them. And since they're not on our schedule, I won't be overly concerned unless we're playing them in the SB.

Henne I'm also not that concerned about. I see clear improvement over last season. I think he's going to need to have an 85 or better QB rating for us to contend. I think the odds are decent that he can achieve that. I don't think it's a given though. I just see this as one of those positions you can't rush. I think he clearly has the talent to do it. So as long as he's working and I'm seeing improvement I won't complain too much, even if he falls a little short. I think we're building a team that is meant to contend for several years so I won't panic over this year.

The secondary is also in the same boat. We have CBs who clearly have more than enough talent. As long as you're seeing them improve then I'm not overly worried. I've seen Davis improve markedly and I've seen improvement in Smith as well. People are panicking b/c they see him play outside position and allowing passes to be completed to the inside. Those completions are only coming on posts or crossing patterns. Fans are blaming him for the completions when they should be blaming the S. Now he did bite bad on his first play in last week, but he also came back and had a nice PBU. He's also been nosier in run support. I also want to include Dansby here b/c his coverage against the TEs has been a big improvement over what we had last year. I expect that once we start blitzing more and letting Wake rush more (instead of having him in coverage) our pass rush and our pass D in general will be much better than last year and better than what we had in 2008. I think that even Clemons will be able to play at the level that Hill played at in 2008. Not a ton of big plays but far fewer big plays allowed.

The STs I am worried about. I am hoping that the addition of Sapp will help. I just see to many guys getting blocked and too few guys putting themselves in position to make tackles.

My main concern in addition to the STs is the number of penalties we've had. The other stuff I believe has a pretty good chance of fixing itself. In the end, I think we'll contend for the division. I'm not sure that we'll take the step up to be a true SB contenders, but we're moving in the right direction.

 

maybe he is in the long run, but at the moment davis is clear the better player, he is physical, something smith maybe will never develop, is better at run support and also in coverage and its not even close, just mho

 

Smith was our best cover corner last year, and has been this year in preseason also (although both have struggled). I agree Davis is better in run support and is more physical.

 

The line hasnt looked all that great this year so far. I'll give you that. They looked really unsettled against Atlanta as well.

This is just ridiculous. I love how you jumped on his case after week 1 as well, but then after a great showing in week 2, you disappeared? Now here we are, week 3 and you're all over him again. 10/22, yes. Most of us here counted at least 7, yes SEVEN drops over the course of the game Friday night. You want him to make the right decisions? He is. He's not forcing passes, he's standing in the pocket, dumping it off to the checkdown option when nobody is open, and throwing it away when plays break apart. The touch on his passes is very much improved as well. He's made tremendous progress, but he can't catch his own passes. I don't see anyone else here worried about the QB position after you. Enough already.

Smith has looked... inconsistent, yes. He's still a good corner for us as a #2. No doubt about Davis, he's going to be a stud. I havent seen anything that awful from Clemons that would leave concern though. Only time will tell here.

I believe most of the guys on the ST unit all preseason have been roster bubble guys. Guys who probably won't make this team, unless then can play ST. I'm not so worried here yet as most of these guys will probably end up cut anyways. The addition of Sapp will help this unit.

You see a lack of aggressive and consistent play because it is the preseason. Thats what its for. We havent opened up the playbooks on either side of the ball at all this year. Wait till week 1 of the regular season, you'll see alot. Even Vontae Davis said it in his post game interview on Friday, you havent seen nothing yet, just wait and see.

I think you do. You've had rants like this since the preseason started.

 

The Dolphins have gone 4-0 last 2 preseasons..and then started like ****..maybe this adversity will help them gain some intensity for week one.. a blessing in disguise possibly..the last 2 years everyone figured we were ready for week one when clearly it wasn't the case.

 

Very true..the Raiders are notoriously great in the preseason were the Colts suck...trying to read preseason tea leaves for Team readiness is futile it's only use is for practice and some individual assessments.

 

Smith has already been more physical this preseason than he was last season.
also he has shown flashes of better play against the run and tackling
the bashing of sean smith has been way too premature IMO. he does need to work on his pass coverage but the development process has started.
It's the blind impatient fans who don't understand what that process consists of. If you're expectations are way too high you might be let down for now.
Give it some time.

 

if you were in any of the chats during fri nights game you would have thought we were getting blown out in the conference championship game. That was some of the most immature knee jerk reactions I have ever come across. I hadn't realized the fan base had become such impatient douchebags.

 

Please tell me you're being facetious, or a contrarian, or something...

Couldn't agree more.

 

Of course it is a work in progress, we came into camp with the entire middle of the line open for competition. The only guys locked in were Vern and Jake.

When you are starting a rookie at guard, have two starting potential players at center fighting over a job and a questionmark at the other guard you are going to have a "work in progress" situation". If you think it is bad now, consider if Nate Garner was healthy, we'd have even more of guys moving in and out.

Last year we were shuffling guys in and out in the middle all year. What we are doing now is no different.

Henne has been fine. We've seen a plethora of drops and we are not game planning at all. No running game.

I tend to disagree slightly. Vontae Davis is showing he has some Pro Bowls in his future and Yeremiah Bell looks great. I'm a little worried about Sean Smith but we have some depth. Will Allen will be back, Jason Allen has seemed to find a place and Carroll looks like a keeper.

Chris Clemons is finding his way as well but I think he'll be competent (after a year of Wilson a potted plant is an improvement though).

I'm a LOT more concerned about our pass rush then I am about the secondary at this point. That said, my concern is lessened by the fact that it is preseason and we are not scheming at all. The test comes week 2, if we get no heat then I'll jump off a bridge.

Special teams will always be a work in progress, especially with this team right now. Ireland has had to turn over an entire roster in 3 short years and the bottom of the roster is always the biggest work in progress. They will figure it out.

It's preseason. In the 2nd preseason game we were aggressive. We are not going to show anyone anything at this point. Think about the last game versus the Falcons. Our running game was going no where and we did not go to the Wildcat. In the regular season when the running game struggles we ALWAYS go to the Wildcat. Our playcalling was conservative as well.

It is PRESEASON. It's a time to get in and get out healthy and find the final roster. I'm not worried about lack of aggression. Scheming in preseason is just plain dumb.

 

That's exactly what you're doing.

You talk about the OL, but even as is, its one of the top 5 units in the league.

Henne has played well for most of the preseason. He's made a few bonehead throws in the red zone, he still throws an occasional rocket ball, and he wasn't sliding his protections properly early in the game vs Atlanta. But for the most part, he's been on time and on target, though it's tough to get a real feel for things b/c of the vanilla nature of the offense and lack of game planning.

The secondary could be an issue this year, especially if Will Allen can't come back at/near full strength. But don't be fooled by what you've seen so far. Our DBs have been left on islands for the most part in the preseason. That's a good way to get them acclimated to game speed, but it's also going to lead to some not so shiny moments, which we've seen. Matt Ryan was so shocked that we actually played a Cover 2, he threw the ball right to Y Bell on Friday. That should give you an idea of how vanilla we were up to that point.

The lack of intensity you allude to, I mean it's preseason, you basically answered your own question. Personally, I'm satisfied with the PS. Lots of reps for our main players, without any injuries. The coaches now have just enough bad tape to keep the players focused for the opening of the season, and our opponents have seen nothing useful to go on as far as game planning for us. That's a successful preseason in my book. Not that the PS matters...

 

Kudos to Sean for sticking his head in there a few times, I can appreciate that. But that was the same move Roddy White roasted him on last year, and the same overthrow by Matt Ryan. I liked his aggressiveness on the play, but I wish he'd save it for when he has safety help. Or at the very least, when the WR turns up on the double move, grab his @ss and take the 5 yd penalty, don't get beat for a 50 yd TD. C'mon man.

 

I took nothing personally, I was just reading your post, and your opinions, and countering them with opinions of my own. How I was not polite, is beyond me? Apparently disagreeing with you and backing up my arguments with facts about how this team has played (mainly Henne) is unpolite to you. Please accept my apologies. I'm not trying to make anything personal, not sure why you would think that, but you can make all the points you want, but you have to remember on a forum like this, people are going to counter you and your opinion. If you choose to ignore that, then that's fine but I dont see the point then in posting yours. As I said, i find it strange that you would criticize Henne for his performance against Tampa, which wasnt bad, and filled with WR drops. Criticize his performance this week, which was again filled with WR drops, but when he has a good performance in week 2 of the preseason, no credit is given whatsoever.

If you want to view the negative side of things, and forget that this is preseason, when we aren't opening up the playbook at all, not being aggressive, and we're testing out players to see if they can potentially make this team or not, I don't see the need to panic yet.

Personally, I like your original post, its done alot to stir conversation, I agree with some of your areas of concern, I just don't agree with your assessment and your specifics of them.

 

He is not alone in worrying about Henne. He has not sold me on anything yet. The excuses are really getting old. Its preseason?? SO what. ITs preseason for the other QBs that are doing fine.
Our ST will be better, its only Preseason. Well, the other team is playing in the preseason too, AND THEY ARE TAKING KICKOFFS BACK TO THE 40 MORE THAN SELDOM. IF......we are to contend.....we should be up to par with the competition.......unless its only preseason, I guess.

The sky isnt falling...........but I am not about to say I dont see plenty to worry about.

Every year we have a problem settling on our OL. Why? Name the five and go with it so they can get some cohesion.

Our STs have struggled for years.....Why? Every team churns the bottom of the roster. Why cant they fix this. How do you win, when your Defense has to start from the 40. The other team is in field goal position if they only gain 25 yards.

nothing but excuses........which might be part of the reason we have started slow the last few years. Its time for them to PUT UP....

 

It's tough to convince fans you're good when your receivers are dropping 5+ passes a game.

Just because we shuffle our line around, doesn't mean we have a bad line. Our line is going to be fine, just like last season.

My only problem is the ST unit, but I'm not that worried about it. I think we'll be good enough there.

 

Welcome to generation"I want it yesterday"
and "I will Not accept responsibility for anything"

 

Those comments by me weren't directed towards anyone directly at this forum or the after game stuff that took place on Friday night. It was a sky is falling chat room that was ridiculous.

 

I guess I should have highlighted the whole thing. I am not calling you out on this, seriously, but it sounds to me like you are a top notch kool-aid drinker, which is part of fandom. Some can live in it, but my time drinkin it is done.
Now to start off, I am not comparing the situations in the 2 places or the players themselves, BUT........ Since I live in the Atl. area, I was able to observe the whole Vick QBed teams when he was here. It amazes me still that when Vick was throwing passes to his recievers, they would regularly drop passes, including White, but since they have a new REAL QB, it seems, White has become a REAL threat to a defense. Did White just grow up? I dont think so. They drafted him to do what he is doing now, play big. They have a QB that can put the ball in the right places, with the right amount of velocity, making it more.........catchable. Would I bet my life on this, ..........NOPE. But it sure seems to be the case. Is Henne to blame for all the drops here? I doubt it. But I WOULD bet its more his fault that most are thinking. They dont have that same problem with Penny in the game. Henne might work out to be a capable QB. ITs only preseason, and its SOOOoooooo vanilla, they say...........Why does Schaub look so good against Dallas? HE was a 2nd rounder also. I have to go back to Sparanos quote. Something about........if they are gonna bite, they will bite early. Henne has NOT BIT........yet, and I wont give it to him until I SEE IT.....FOR A FEW GAMES IN A ROW. I expect this year to be up and down, week to week, until he BITES.
While I agree our line will more than likely be just fine, could the lack of settling on the starting 5 until AFTER THE LAST PRESEASON game, be a reason for the slow starts? I think it might.
NOW, for you to not be worried about the special teams.......that aint nuthin but Kool-aid drinkin, there has been NO EVIDENCE that it will be alright.....for 2 straight years. Ginn only had 1 really good game, against the Jets. We cant even get a good runback without the returner dodging guys inside the 20. That might be a little exaggeration, but not by much. I am VERY worried about the ST. They give me NO reason to see it otherwise.
I highly doubt that our camp is that much harder than most, so I cant buy the theory that they are already worn out.

I used to see it like you do, but I cant live with it anymore. I have to see the evidence before I can speak it.
enjoy the season my fellow FINS FAN.

 

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Come on folks, it's football, we've got problems, other teams have problems, this regime has the franchise on the right track, look at the level of talent vs. 3 years ago and tell me honestly you aren't happy with where we are headed?

We are not going to win the SB this season, not quite ready for that, but we are one more off season of solid drafting and FA acquisitions from being ready, and whether we come out strong and win our division or not, we are going to have a LOT of fun watching these youngsters develop this season. Next year, look out NFL, this team will be ready to go to the SB and win it!

 

THERE ya go.......... Thats all I am after. We have problems....everything is not all peachy keen. We are MUCH better off than 3 years ago.....but we arent done, and I cant help but see the holes in OUR team and the things that are happening year after year that MIGHT be the reason that we start in a hole every year. Some see only the bright side, and expect great things. Thats ok for them. I ....TRY ...........to see it all. I am tired at being so down after the year is done because I refused to see the WHOLE picture.

carry on......I am done.

 

Of course we have holes. The only team that doesn't is the All Pro team, and we don't play them this year. Let's try to have some perspective before we start writing obituaries for the season.

The Bills- They suck. Their starting WOLB was Reggie Torbor, until he got hurt. Their starting SOLB just retired. Lynch and Jackson are banged up. Their OL only has two players who would even make our team. Evans is their only WR, they have two back up QBs and Arena League guy. Their pass rush is a joke.

The Vikes- They have 0 OL who'd start for us aka thier OL sucks. Rice is out, Harvin has headaches. Favre is old as dirt, and rusty too. Madiueu Williams is even worse than Gibril Wilson, Tyrell Johnson isn't much better. Winfield is a gray beard, Griffin is still out with an ACL, Henderson's a ? with his broken leg.

The Jets- Sanchez still sucks. Revis is still holding out. Holmes is out for 4 games, Pace is out for 5-6 weeks. Their only good RB is fumble and injury prone. They have no OL, DL or ILB depth, they'll be asking JT to play major snaps until Pace is back. Their LG sucks too, by the way.

I wont go thru the whole schedule, but suffice to say we aren't the only team with roster concerns. So to make thread after thread (not talking to anyone specifically) about our deficiencies lacks perspective, overstates the obvious, and frankly, is kind of annoying.

 

I don't see how I'm drinking the kool aid, lol.

I've seen the passes thrown by Henne. A majority of them were on the money and beautifully thrown touch passes. The receivers just dropped them. There were a few that I remember where Henne would try to gun it when he didn't have to, but I assure you it's the receivers who are at fault, not Henne.

As for him not biting, I think he bit last season. Did you forget the Jets game on MNF?

The Special teams wasn't very bad last season. If I remember correctly, Padre posted a stat where we improved ten spots, from 22 to 12, or something like that. This pre season, the Special Team is bad, but remember it's made up of players who more than likely will not be Dolphins come September. We just have to trust our FO on this one.

 

Love the take on the preseason GM, i'll go as far to say that the staff did less gameplanning this preseason than any of the past...I think their very serious about being unpredictable...its Parcells way to try and outthink the opponent...I believe they have found a way to keep athlete's on their heels before they react...Thats an edge that is tangible, and If I can make you think before you use your athleticism, my player win's.

 

We are definite playoff contenders. Super Bowl is a no right now, I would not put money on it. anything can happen though once the season goes on and once you get in the playoffs. Giants in 2007, Cardinals in 2008, and even though we hate it the Jets took that momentum the Colts gave them and carried it to the AFC Championship game when the Colts kicked them out. Even great teams that seem to rise out of nowhere, like the Seahawks went from 9-7 to the #1 seed in one season.