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Titans to start Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I would argue there that his passer rating was “mixed” with Mariota’s in the Denver game because he entered a game whose trajectory Mariota had played a large part in determining, and it was probably also the case that the coaching staff wasn’t gameplanning for Tannehill with regard to the number of pass attempts it was going to make that day.
     
  2. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Just a twist of his words to make him wrong, when he’s not.
     
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  3. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Aj brown deserves offensive rookie of the year imo

    lots of run thru contact in that kids future.
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Well it's not literally mixed. His passer rating is what it is. Going down the road of saying maybe there was game planning or not is the same kind of stuff I'd argue "averages out". So I'd include it.
     
  5. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    A.J. Brown sucked with Mariota under center.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, we all remember Tannehill turning Hartline into a 1k receiver, but somehow people on here still disregarded that and attributed it to other things.
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Of course he is. It's non stop semantic arguments.
     
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  8. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Right, but you don’t have a pure representation of Tannehill’s use by the Tennessee coaching staff in that instance, and when he has the lowest number of passing attempts per game in the league over the remaining games, I think that becomes of paramount importance. I think that suggests they were using him in a way that almost no other quarterbacks are used, and I doubt that was also true for the Denver game.
     
  9. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    But the thing is he wasn’t that raw when he got here. I watched his first 4 game tapes and was like this kid is mucb more advanced than his college tape would indicate.

    of course that’s also when I put out the “tom Brady with legs” comp which has been used on repeat as a way to villify me ever since. Which was also taken out of context relative to what I was trying to say...ie also a plus level pre snap and progression read qb who just happens to be a real threat with his legs.
     
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  10. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I'll just tell you what my point of view is. Tannehill's play has proven those who said he could play at an elite level for a sustained period of time (within a season) correct. So I'm not saying no one said he couldn't play at an elite level. What I'm saying is that no one predicted he would actually do so in Tennessee. You want to say I'm wrong there show me the prediction.
     
  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Oh, so now we have to specifically state exactly what his numbers will be, in order to say we were correct?

    Myself and others argued for years Tannehill had elite talent. We argued that with some decent players and a decent coach, he would be dominant. Now he's in Tennessee, with those things, and he's doing it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2019
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  12. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I made the mistake of predicting it in Miami 4 games into his rookie season even. Should have known we’d never be competent around the qb enough.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Well.. like I said I would include it. Stuff like "pure representation of Tannehill's use" is subjective. I wouldn't do that with stats.
     
  14. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I predicted in tennessee was that mariota would grab some pine in a nanosecond.

    it took a little longer than it should considering tannehills timing was back in the preseason but lates better than never.

    I got wonder what that contract extension is gonna look like. I mean when you can hold the league leader in passer rating over them I don’t see how it gets more leverage than that. That’s called executing the ask at the highest level clip. Period

    Barring a tag if he wants to he’s got the titans by the short hairs
     
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  15. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    In other words, the coaching staff very likely didn’t gameplan for that game with Tannehill in mind. So what you’re left with is some unknown mixture of their intentions for Mariota versus Tannehill in that game, whereas in the rest of the games, we know for a fact that Tennessee’s plays were called such that Tannehill threw the fewest passes per game in the league.
     
  16. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’d venture to say it’s called chasing the scoreboard vs not chasing it. Not chasing it as a result of the qb being so damn efficient in his ask.

    it’s not that hard.
     
  17. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    But that doesn’t explain why Tannehill’s passer rating varies so strongly as a function of that, when throughout the rest of the league that relationship doesn’t exist. The more passes Tannehill throws, the lower his passer rating is, whereas for the rest of the league that doesn’t occur.
     
  18. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Who gives a crap? That’s an argument only you care about.

    The whole point of this is that people knew Tannehill was a good quarterback here and was capable of being elite.

    The Dolphins as an entire organization held him back. No need to dissect it any more than that.

    The people who said that he was a franchise quarterback capable of being elite are right, myself included ;).
     
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  19. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    you can give up now if you want to tell me that the league leader in passer rating (which is all about efficiency of qb ask) is less efficient the more passes he throws.

    Drew Brees is the king of efficiency and tannehills was higher than his.

    I know you went and scoured the numbers for anything you can to try and downplay the QBs play this year.
     
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  20. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    You still aren’t explaining why that isn’t true for the league as a whole.
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I consistently said the past few years that he was a top-5 QB with good protection and a bottom-10 QB without it. And while I was partially wrong since his passer rating this season is actually higher when under pressure (mind-blowing...), I was never way off in my evaluation- he's a top-1 quarterback with a better surrounding cast (which also happens to be top-5). Nobody predicted he'd be THIS GOOD in 2019 but then again, none of us knew he would even play this season (although I had a suspicion that he'd get a try-out at some point in the year with Mariota's injuries).

    I think the much larger takeaway from this conversation goes back to 2016-2018 under Gase- some here said that key injuries crippled the team out of contention. Others have recently pushed the "new town, new QB" theory but a much simpler explanation would be that he's finally healthy and 100% comfortable on the field. It really kills me that he didn't get one more season in Miami under Gase before the regimen blew everything to pieces.

    Maybe he would have been average this season with no major improvements- but then again maybe not. We'll never know.
     
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  22. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Gase is at best an average HC. I think that should be clear now with his move to the Jets. Worse, the so-called offensive mastermind masterminded the 31st ranked team in points scored this year. Definitely not what you want for QB development. It's good we fired him.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How is that clear? He got to NY and his starting QB was out half the season with mono....just like RT missed his 2nd season with a freak injury and played year 3 hurt. You're assuming that's all coincidence and also assuming that Tannehill suddenly evolved from #20 overall to #1.....that's a lot of assuming for a math guy.
     
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  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    All I know is KeyFin, Hoops, resnor, Fin D, McDuff, myself and a few others I'm probably missing always had his back. Its a great feeling to see him playing like he is...he's my favorite NFL player, partly because of all the utter crap he dealt with in Miami...with a smile.

    I've bought my first EVER non-Dolphins jersey...Titans 17. My wife's a Titans fan so I can use that excuse ;)
     
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  25. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    I missed the part in the quote above originally, but that’s in fact what any responsible GM should be doing with regard to Tannehill right now, before spending tens of millions of dollars on him in the future — trying to determine whether his performance is sustainable, given the fact that it’s so discrepant from his previous six years in the league.

    You do that by looking for patterns in his performance that aren’t sustainable, such as the extremely strong correlation between his passer rating and his number of pass attempts per game, combined with the fact that he threw the fewest passes per game in the league this year.

    And again, that pattern is not found throughout the league as a whole, where the correlation between passer rating and pass attempts per game is nil.
     
  26. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL at “that guy” for still trying to figure out how to take credit away from Tannehill.
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    LMAO, seriously? I ordered a knock-off Blue/Tennessee Tannehill jersey from China and it should be here any day now. That's my first NFL jersey ever because I refuse to spend that much money on something I'll never wear....and it will be going on my office wall.

    I ordered a knock-off JT and Marino jersey as well though for our game room/man cave since they're like $28 on DH Gate (Tannehill's was $18!). Wake and Ricky Williams will be next.
     
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  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Some people just can't accept being wrong about something. They can't get past what their eyes are showing them that their eyes failed to previously recognize. I've been wrong on a few QBs I thought would tear up the NFL, and I'll gladly admit when I am...nobody gets 'em ALL right.

    - Kyler Murray - I didn't think he'd do as well as he did...kid did great IMO.
    - Zach Mettenberger - I thought he'd be a good one after a couple years learning...way off.
    - Chad Henne - I thought he'd be a franchise QB...……..ya...…….
    - Josh Rosen - Liked him the most coming out last year...jury's still out, but not looking promising.

    I didn't dig in hard on any of those guys though, like I did with Tannehill. The previous few QBs I stuck hard on wanting the Dolphins to draft were Philip Rivers (just knew he'd be really good) and Aaron Rodgers (didn't think he'd be THIS good, but liked him a lot).
     
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  29. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Only have a few, 54 Orange Zach Thomas, 13 Aqua Dan Marino, 13 Blacked Out Dan Marino, 17 Aqua Ryan Tannehill, 17 Blacked Out Ryan Tannehill, 91 Aqua Cam Wake, 31 Aqua Michael Thomas...and now the 17 Navy Ryan Tannehill (Titans). Worn all of 'em...the 13 Aqua Dan Marino is damn near worn out...had to retire it lol.
     
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  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I was in Nashville in August. I was joking to my son that they were going to have to take down the giant picture of Mariota on the outside of the stadium.
    upload_2019-12-31_17-28-59.jpeg
     
  31. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Heck, I went to bat for Henne, Feeley, and Beck.

    I still hang my hat on being right about Trent Green, though.
     
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  32. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    so by that you mean that he was washed up by the time he got here?
     
  33. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    Keep it civil, please. Comment on the post and not the poster. Leave the sarcasm out and let's try to have a happy end of the year. Thanks for your cooperation. Happy New Year!
     
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  34. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    Our idiot owner STILL has a hard on for Marifloata. Tanne would of been the starter to begin the season but we truly believe she was the one that pushed the front office to give him another fair shot.
     
  35. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    The only stat that matters for coaches is win%. Gase is average there. And no "offensive genius" consistently has an offense that produces near the bottom of the league in points scored so yes after 4 seasons we can pretty confidently say Gase is at best an average HC and there's no evidence he's some kind of "offensive genius".

    Also, Darnold started 13 games this season so no he wasn't out "half the season". He had 441 attempts which is more than enough and ended with a season rating of 84.3 which is 6.1 rating points below league average. Darnold with Gase = below average QB so far.

    Finally, Gase didn't do anything special with Tannehill over 24 games. In fact, what Tannehill's doing in Tennessee helps demonstrate this for a supposed "QB whisperer". Tannehill didn't start off playing hurt in 2018 either. I mean.. right before the 2018 season there were tons of posters predicting 2018 would be Tannehill's breakout season because he had the right coach (Gase, who "believed in him") and the right surrounding cast (Gase said he had "his team"). So no there's no excuse for Gase here.

    Ross did the right thing by firing Gase. I know you said last year that Gase is "the best thing to happen to Miami in a long while" (that phrase really stuck in my mind) and that you wanted us to revisit the firing of Gase after we see what he does with the Jets (and how the Jets play the Dolphins). How can you look at what Gase did this year and attempt to argue his firing was a bad decision??

    No argument IMO. Gase fired = good for the franchise.
     
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  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya I've seen a buncha guys on Titans boards saying they, and the coaches, thought Tannehill should've started week 1, but hand was forced.
     
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  37. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    There were more than a few guys here that wanted Mariota over Tannehill for the Dolphins, too.
     
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  38. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Your female owner has a hard on for Mariota? Weird age we live in.
     
  39. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    No. He’s not.

    I have been a long time supporter of Tannehill. My point was I thought Tanny could be good, but I never thought he was elite i.e. league leading in multiple key statistical categories, including #1 overall in passer rating.

    I remember precisely no one saying Tanny was elite. Top 10 many many times.
    I remember people saying in perfect surroundings he might crack the top 5. In particular that he needed an elite OL. Well the Titans OL is far from elite. They have some good run blocking success, but their pass blocking is not as good.

    If anyone has said they thought Tannehill was going to or could lead the league in passer rating I have never seen it. If anyone claims they said it before Tannehill was named starter for the Titans I want to see the link to the post where they claimed it.
     
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  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I did, remember?
     

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