Ryan Tannehill

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

Tannehill is a failure because he isn’t as likely to carry a teams offense the same way the NFLs reigning MVP Mahomes has. The same Mahomes who lost to the Pats in the playoffs. But ok, got it.

I seem to recall a certain #17 leading his team, late in the 4th quarter while down, to a game-winning drive over said MVP's team (8th in passing defense, 7th in PPG)...THIS season...which included the following, against a pretty good defense:

Down by 5, 1:21 on the clock, he goes 2/3, 43 Yards, 1 TD, 18 yds rushing, and rushing for a 2 pt conversion, a 58-second drive, taking a 3 point lead with :23 left on the clock.

Would that qualify as carrying a team in a clutch situation?

Additionally, his rating for the game was 133.9, 14 points higher than Mahomes.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

I seem to recall a certain #17 leading his team, late in the 4th quarter while down, to a game-winning drive over said MVP's team (8th in passing defense, 7th in PPG)...THIS season...which included the following, against a pretty good defense:

Down by 5, 1:21 on the clock, he goes 2/3, 43 Yards, 1 TD, 18 yds rushing, and rushing for a 2 pt conversion, a 58-second drive, taking a 3 point lead with :23 left on the clock.

Would that qualify as carrying a team in a clutch situation?

Additionally, his rating for the game was 133.9, 14 points higher than Mahomes.

Oh you’re forgetting 1 critical factor! It wasn’t a high pressure situation!......lol.

"resnor wrote:

Again, you're ignoring the dumpster fire around him.

Tannehill is supposed to block for himself and pass to himself? Come on dude.

Just let it go Res...its not worth your time, or anybody else's for that matter.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

Tannehill is a failure because he isn’t as likely to carry a teams offense the same way the NFLs reigning MVP Mahomes has. The same Mahomes who lost to the Pats in the playoffs. But ok, got it.

Tannehill will be proven a choke artist if he can’t go into Baltimore and beat the #1 seed Ravens with the future NFL MVP playing quarterback. Got it.

And if Henry dares run for a bunch of yards or the Titans defense helps shut down Lamar Jackson, Tannehill has to prove it in the Super Bowl or he’s still a choke artist riding everyone else’ coattails.

Maybe Shouright and DJ were right about him?

I don’t Judge Qbs by wins and losses, judge them by individual performance..if during their performance they understand how to help their team win, all the better.

"djphinfan wrote:

I don’t Judge Qbs by wins and losses, judge them by individual performance..if during their performance they understand how to help their team win, all the better.

What do you think of Matt Ryan?

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I give TheGuy the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes malicious necessarily against Tannehill.

I dont think its absurd to question whether a QB can keep it up. There are QB I feel that way about honestly in the league, so I get it.

I get more frustrated with using a single game to determine the value of a player. I dont think its unique to him though, a lot of people judge a college QB on his Bowl game for example when it's just one of many games. That isnt fair to me.

That's a misplaced benefit.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I give TheGuy the benefit of the doubt. I dont think hes malicious necessarily against Tannehill.

I dont think its absurd to question whether a QB can keep it up. There are QB I feel that way about honestly in the league, so I get it.

I get more frustrated with using a single game to determine the value of a player. I dont think its unique to him though, a lot of people judge a college QB on his Bowl game for example when it's just one of many games. That isnt fair to me.

Sounds like somebody likes jalen hurts lol

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Just let it go Res...its not worth your time, or anybody else's for that matter.

It's sooooo hard though.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

What do you think of Matt Ryan?

I believe he’s better than Tannehill

Who cares, unless your willing to give up one of your first round picks for Tannehill then lots of folks are blowing smoke

"djphinfan wrote:

I believe he’s better than Tannehill

Who cares, unless your willing to give up one of your first round picks for Tannehill then lots of folks are blowing smoke

If we had an offense that fit with Tannehill’s skillset like the Titans, I would give up a 1st round pick easy. Not the #5 overall.

It’s like people think tannehill can only survive in a play action based system. So wierd. So not correct too.

"Hoops wrote:

It’s like people think tannehill can only survive in a play action based system. So wierd. So not correct too.

Well I’d certainly take him in the Pats, Titans, Chiefs, Green Bay or Saints offense too. I’m confident he’d succeed with any proven coach as long as it’s not like say.....the Ravens offense.

"djphinfan wrote:

I believe he’s better than Tannehill.

That’s it? Won’t go into any further detail? I’m just curious.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

Well I’d certainly take him in the Pats, Titans, Chiefs, Green Bay or Saints offense too. I’m confident he’d succeed with any proven coach as long as it’s not like say.....the Ravens offense.

the ravens offense is all about the legs threat of the qb and the heavy tight end packages. They’ve tailored that sucker completely around Lamar Jackson.

but let him take a leg injury and lose some of that juice. His pocket read at that point is gonna have to really step up. The tight end emphasis hides some works in progress I would say in his game.

that said he is a much more consistent passer than anyone could have ever predicted watching that college tape. But I doubt it’s consistent enough to be a plus if teams can force them into a plan b in other words. His instincts though are high level so he’s got more of that going for him than rg3 did for instance.

ravens need to strike while the irons hot and some of those QBs pocket passer warts likely come to the surface. Time is now for them.

they physical they downhill in the run game they got a qb that can outflank you and they put all those heavy tight end sets to good use.

if it sounds like I’m putting the qb down I’m not im just sayin that unless he becomes a better pure passer from the pocket I doubt that style game has a 10 year shelf life of high end play.

but maybe I’m just old school and it’s where the whole league is headed with it. I kinda struggle witb it.

"Hoops wrote:

Sounds like somebody likes jalen hurts lol

I dont particularly like him, but if he managed to be there in the 2nd round, less of a commitment, and we passed on the other guys I'd probably take him.

Maybe even the Texans pick depending where it lands.

"Fin D wrote:

That's a misplaced benefit.

It could be, but I'd rather believe a liar than condemn the potentially innocent.

"Mcduffie81 wrote:

Well I’d certainly take him in the Pats, Titans, Chiefs, Green Bay or Saints offense too. I’m confident he’d succeed with any proven coach as long as it’s not like say.....the Ravens offense.

sorry I got off on a tangent. What I should have said was I agree with you that Ryan in tbe ravens o wouldn’t be a good fit. Cause he’s not as instinctual as a runner. The rest of it he could do but that instincts side of things with Jackson takes it to another level imo

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I dont particularly like him, but if he managed to be there in the 2nd round, less of a commitment, and we passed on the other guys I'd probably take him.

Maybe even the Texans pick depending where it lands.

that was a fugly bowl game tape and considering that he comes from a defense optional conference it’s pretty hard to overlook what he plays like vs as close to nfl caliber speed and physicality as the sec offers.

I’m a flat no thanks as a qb.

"Hoops wrote:

the ravens offense is all about the legs threat of the qb and the heavy tight end packages. They’ve tailored that sucker completely around Lamar Jackson.

but let him take a leg injury and lose some of that juice. His pocket read at that point is gonna have to really step up. The tight end emphasis hides some works in progress I would say in his game.

that said he is a much more consistent passer than anyone could have ever predicted watching that college tape. But I doubt it’s consistent enough to be a plus if teams can force them into a plan b in other words. His instincts though are high level so he’s got more of that going for him than rg3 did for instance.

ravens need to strike while the irons hot and some of those QBs pocket passer warts likely come to the surface. Time is now for them.

they physical they downhill in the run game they got a qb that can outflank you and they put all those heavy tight end sets to good use.

if it sounds like I’m putting the qb down I’m not im just sayin that unless he becomes a better pure passer from the pocket I doubt that style game has a 10 year shelf life of high end play.

This is all correct.

The correlation between Jackson's number of pass attempts and his passer rating, on a game-by-game basis in 2019, was -0.52, meaning that there was a moderately strong relationship between the two variables -- as Jackson passed the ball more, his passer rating decreased.

That wouldn't mean a lot if his number of pass attempts per game wasn't different from the league average, but it was -- he threw about 27 passes per game, which was well below the league average of about 35.

However, now consider two additional things: 1) Jackson ran the ball nearly twelve times per game, which was nearly double that of the second-highest QB in the league in that regard (Josh Allen with 6.9 rushing attempts per game), and 2) he gained 6.9 yards per carry, which is less than a yard below his number of yards per pass attempt (7.8), and you can see that the Ravens have effectively supplemented their passing game with Jackson's running ability.

Jackson averaged about 289 yards a game running and passing combined, which put him right up there with the likes of Drew Brees, for example, who had about 294 yards per game passing in 2019.

Now enter the Titans' defense, which surrendered an opposing passer rating of 90.4 in 2019, which was roughly average in the league, and which surrendered 4 yards per rush in 2019, which was above-average but not exceptional, and you'll see why I believe Derrick Henry won't be enough for the Titans this weekend. I don't see the Titans stopping the Ravens' offense like they stopped New England's, and so Ryan Tannehill won't be able to remain in a game manager role if the Titans hope to keep pace on the scoreboard.

It’s a no for me if a QB has to rely on his legs to produce.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

That isnt fair to me.

And he knows it isn't fair, so what does that tell you?

"FinFaninBuffalo wrote:

And he knows it isn't fair, so what does that tell you?

Its contradictory, but I sometimes say contradictory things too on the surface so I'm not entirely sure haha.

"The Guy wrote:

This is all correct.

The correlation between Jackson's number of pass attempts and his passer rating, on a game-by-game basis in 2019, was -0.52, meaning that there was a moderately strong relationship between the two variables -- as Jackson passed the ball more, his passer rating decreased.

That wouldn't mean a lot if his number of pass attempts per game wasn't different from the league average, but it was -- he threw about 27 passes per game, which was well below the league average of about 35.

However, now consider two additional things: 1) Jackson ran the ball nearly twelve times per game, which was nearly double that of the second-highest QB in the league in that regard (Josh Allen with 6.9 rushing attempts per game), and 2) he gained 6.9 yards per carry, which is less than a yard below his number of yards per pass attempt (7.8), and you can see that the Ravens have effectively supplemented their passing game with Jackson's running ability.

Jackson averaged about 289 yards a game running and passing combined, which put him right up there with the likes of Drew Brees, for example, who had about 294 yards per game passing in 2019.

Now enter the Titans' defense, which surrendered an opposing passer rating of 90.4 in 2019, which was roughly average in the league, and which surrendered 4 yards per rush in 2019, which was above-average but not exceptional, and you'll see why I believe Derrick Henry won't be enough for the Titans this weekend. I don't see the Titans stopping the Ravens' offense like they stopped New England's, and so Ryan Tannehill won't be able to remain in a game manager role if the Titans hope to keep pace on the scoreboard.

You're saying that Tannehill will need to produce like he did in the regular season (passing production and points) if Lamar Jackson produces the way he did in the regular season... well no shit.....

Now answer this question, why did you not pose the situation in the reverse? Why did you not assert that Jackson would need to improve from his last postseason performance in order to keep pace with the Titans?

It's because you are biased against Tannehill, plain and simple.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

Its contradictory, but I sometimes say contradictory things too on the surface so I'm not entirely sure haha.

Have you ever seen him post something contradictory or unfair but in favor of Tannehill? Just look at his last post about Jackson. He acknowledges shortcomings in Jackson passing stats but immediately dismisses them because of his running. Can you imagine that same thing happening with a discussion of Tannehill? No. He'd argue that relying on his legs was proof of Tannehill not being a good QB.

Sorry, but you really shouldn't need to wonder. His motives are pretty clear.

"The Guy wrote:

It takes that many passes for statistics to become predictive, not descriptive. Certainly you can describe a quarterback's performance in a single game with statistics

NO YOU CAN'T.

Here are two plays.

2-4-NE 37 (3:26) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to J.Edelman.
3-4-NE 37 (3:22) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to P.Dorsett II.

They were two CRITICAL plays in the game. Exact same impact on passer rating (i.e. one incompletion). They led directly to the Patriots loss since they had to punt and did not see the ball again until it was 1st and 10 on their own 1 yard line with 15 seconds to go in the game.

Now, using STATISTICS, tell me why they do not DESCRIBE the QB's play in the same way.....

The first of the two plays was a clear drop by Edelman. Brady did everything right. Edelman blew it. The second play Brady missed the throw. Stop pretending that stats can be an be all end all approach. In reality you have no intention of even using stats unless you can find stats that discredit Tannehill.