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Titans to start Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah I’m aware. No real weakness to try to exploit was my point.
     
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  2. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    It will be hard to defeat the Chiefs.

    I think will lose, but its been a great season knocking out the Pats and the team i absolutely hate the most the RATBIRDS.
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  3. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Ryan Tannehill on the front page of NFL.com in a on field story in mid-January. How cool is that.
     
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  4. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    You think Tannehill will throw for over 100 yards against KC?
     
  5. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing wrong with looking at Tannehill's performance in that manner. However, it removes it from the context in which the question is how he performs in a high-volume passing game. Rushing attempts by the quarterback aren't anywhere near as risky as passing attempts by the quarterback, and again Tannehill had only three pass attempts (two completions) on that game-winning drive. He made other major contributions on that drive by running the ball.

    In other words, if your goal as an offense is to ride your running game and keep your quarterback in a game manager/low-volume role, then when the quarterback himself runs the ball, it isn't entirely inconsistent with that. What's inconsistent with that is a high number of pass attempts by the quarterback, and Tannehill has yet to have a game this year in which that occurred and in which he played well.

    The only reason this matters is because some of us are asking the question of whether the Dolphins erred in their approach to Tannehill. Well if Tannehill needs to be in a game manager/low-volume role, and his team needs the kinds of surroundings that can be highly competitive in the league while permitting Tannehill to remain in that role, then it becomes far less likely that any team, including the Dolphins, can assemble and sustain those kinds of surroundings. And so the Dolphins' approach to Tannehill then becomes far more sensible.

    If you need around your quarterback a defense that can shut down other teams' passing games (as the Titans have in the playoffs), in conjunction with perhaps the best running back in the league, who can run well despite facing eight-man boxes on the opposing side, then it becomes very unlikely that any team can assemble and maintain those surroundings. You're essentially asking for the stars to align personnel-wise to make your quarterback competitive at a high level.
     
  6. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    To be honest, I don't care if he throws for 20 if they win.

    However, I'd have to say "more than likely" he throws for over 100, probably 200. I can't see the Titans defense keeping the Chiefs low enough on the scoreboard to let Henry do all the lifting.

    Then again, I thought the same thing going into the Ravens game, so who knows...
     
  7. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The Patriots have done what they have in large part because Brady has taken routine salary cuts, which has allowed the Patriots to have a HoF QB while also surrounding him with a level of talent that few other teams can with such QBs.

    There's a lot to the issue of how competitive a team can be once it pays a QB at the going rate of an average QB or higher.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 9:26 AM
  8. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miami had the tank ready for execution when Josh Rosen was starting.

    Guess what- They didn't intend to tank, at least not Flores. If they wanted to tank they had the built in excuse of evaluating John Beck Jr the rest of the season. They didn't.

    10 games later and the magic of Fitzmagic took full hold.
     
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  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I had to block him. Couldn't take any more nonsense.
     
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  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I swear, we can't do anything right
     
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  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    "There’s no doubting Henry had a huge game, but the key to this game was the Titans putting Baltimore out of their comfort zone early, capitalizing on turnovers, scoring twice through the air and building a lead."

    "Ryan Tannehill connected on just two throws that traveled more than 10 yards downfield, but he made them count."

    "Tannehill made some big passes early to help build the lead, but the story of this game on offense for the Titans was Henry and Tennessee's offensive line, which for the second week in a row dominated the line of scrimmage against a formidable defense."

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-divisional-round-pff-refocused-tennessee-titans-28-baltimore-ravens-12
     
  12. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    And the cherry on top from that same article:

    "The Titans' offense passed on only 32% of their plays but were explosive in both facets averaging 0.17 EPA per pass and 0.21 EPA per run."

    So essentially, the passing game was just about as lethal as the running game, on a per-play basis, even if low pass attempts...in their contribution to the offense as a whole.

    Tannehill had 101 yards of offense, 3 TDs, no turnovers. Lamar Jackson had over 500 yards of offense, 1 TD, 3 turnovers. MVP was out-played.

    Volume doesn't win games...points do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 9:41 AM
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  13. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If they were trying to tank they would have kept Rosen in.
    They didn't.

    Therefore, they were not trying to tank.

    Therefore, they didn't do anything right or wrong.

    Why did they do something wrong if they didn't intend to tank? Please explain.
     
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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Hmmmm, so then it’s not JUST Brady...it’s the cast that’s been around him as well from running backs such as Cory Dillon, LeGarrette Blount...Wide Receivers such as Edelman, Moss...TE such as Gronkoski.

    Ergo...

    Tannehill is equally flourishing with talent such as Derrick Henry and AJ Brown

    Got it. At least you’re SAYING it’s the surrounding cast as well and not JUST the QB.
     
  15. MrPhinn

    MrPhinn Member

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    KC will see if they can make Tannehill win the game. I'm sure they don't think he can. Hell, I'm not sure if he can. He's done a excellent job since he's been in Tenn. Just goes to show you what a balanced team can do when they don't have to have a superman performance from it's QB. I don't think a team needs a Marino/Manning/Brees type of QB if your team is good. (But, yeah it helps)

    Remember, the Ravens won a freaking SB with Trent Dilfer at QB. Has there ever been a more worthless QB win a SB? I think the Titans have that same formula. Defense not quite that good, but a QB who definitely is. As long as they stay in the game, I think KC will be done.
     
  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I think he meant he and many others feel like they should’ve tanked (obv front office too) but Flores is too good of a coach to accomplish this. At lest that’s how I took it.
     
  17. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    Easily
     
  18. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    It would be awesome if Tannehill gives us a discount to keep building this team around him. Highly doubtful though
     
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  19. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    There's no reason you should be thinking Tennessee will lose IF (and this is a crucial "if") you believe Tannehill's league-leading regular season passer rating is an indication of his ability to help a team win a game like this if it requires a high-volume passing game from him.

    The Titans are getting a nearly historically unprecedented contribution from their running game in the playoffs, they've held Tom Brady to a passer rating in the high 50s, and they've held Lamar Jackson to a passer rating of 63.2, 50 points lower than his regular season mark.

    Based on what makes teams win in the NFL, all of that represents more than enough ingredients to beat the Chiefs -- and win the Super Bowl! -- again if you feel Tannehill's regular season passer rating is an indication of what he can do in a high-volume passing game in the playoffs.

    There's no reason why anybody should be thinking the team with the league-leading regular season passer rating QB, coupled with perhaps the best running back in the league and a defense that is shutting down the league's best passers, has any chance of losing, unless the league-leading regular season passer rating for the QB is a mirage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 12:37 PM
  20. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    And I've been hearing another narrative out there to put a damper on the season Tannehill had, "he's only good off play-action."

    Now, while he DID do an outstanding job off play-action (top in the NFL), he wasn't a slouch from shotgun/non-play-action either:

    150/231, 64.94% completion, 1709 yards, 16 TDs, 4 INTs for a 102.9 passer rating

    So the narrative that he can't just sit back and pick a team apart is another joke. He probably can't make a full-time living off of it like a Marino, Mahomes, but how many can?
     
  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I truly believe Tannehill CAN win the game for them, simply for the fact that Tennessee doesn’t give up on the run. They KEEP running the ball, regardless of what Henry gains. This is why the Titans have been so successful on play action pass. The Titans force defenses to put 8 in the box to stop Henry which leaves man to man coverage downfield and Tannehill’s accuracy and ability to hit receivers in stride has resulted in monstrous plays. The Titans aren’t going to change who and what they are, nor should they. No one has figured it out yet and until someone dies, if it’s not broke don’t fix it

    My main concern is on the defensive side of the ball for the Titans. Mahoney and that offense of KC is explosive. If the Titans defense can repeat their previous outing against the Chiefs, the Titans have a real legitimate shot at heading to Miami.
     
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  22. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    I think Tannehill is an awesome QB- i just dont think we have enough talent on defense to stop one if not the best offense in the league.

    Brady is in his declining years, and Lamar never impressed me as a QB- so i take those two as not really that elite in my book as of right now. Mahomes in the other hand is probably the best QB in the playoffs now (Rodgers is debatable)
     
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  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I wouldn't call it highly doubtful. He took a team friendly deal with his one Dolphins contract...and he has stated over and over how important Henry is to the team. He's a class kid, I really doubt he's going to push for full market value. Maybe a lower amount with up-front money and a bunch of incentives built in, but he's not going to ask for anything NEAR what Prescott's asking.
     
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  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    He put the team on his back for a lightening-fast, game-winning drive against this same team, and didn't require 35+ passes to do it either. And the Titans defense is much improved over that point in the season.

    Bug off with the volume crap...it's not relative.
     
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  25. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Mahomes is by far the best QB in the NFL, IMO. I see him as the 2nd coming of Dan Marino, with more mobility...and that is straight DEADLY.

    When you can accurately sling it to ANY area of the field, from any arm angle, in a split-second...you're a very special QB.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 10:41 AM
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  26. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    But then why don't you think Tannehill will rise to the occasion in the quarterback duel that would create, given that he had the highest passer rating in the league this year?
     
  27. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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    Because I would take Chiefs pass defense over Titans pass defense in a heartbeat.

    We lost our CB2 and Adoore with Logan isnt enough. They have speed, strength and alot of other weapons that can beat you.
     
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  28. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    It's hard to imagine anybody beating Mahomes in a straight-up shoot-out...regardless of who they are. Didn't work out well for the Texans at all.
     
  29. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I personally feel any team that tries to lose is absolutely worthless. It send a cancerous message throughout the locker room, degrades moral and says “you guys suck”

    Making every possible effort to WIN however sends the message, failure is not an option. And even if you lose, at least you have everything you had, learned what went wrong, fix what went wrong (to include drafting replacements) and become even a better team for it
     
  30. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    That's certainly logical in formulating a prediction about who will win, but why doesn't the fact that Tannehill's regular season passer rating was 12 points higher than Mahomes's (which is a lot) factor into that equation for you? In other words, if their passer ratings are valid indications of their ability, then Tennessee's pass defense doesn't have to be as good as Kansas City's.
     
  31. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don’t see this game being a “shoot out”. Tennessee is going to control the clock with their ground game and do everything it can to keep Mahomes and company on the sidelines for as long as possible
     
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  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The whole point of breaking up this team was to tank. Remember Ross's famous quote "we let Gase go because he wanted to win". The whole point of letting Tannehill go was to find the elusive unicorn QB. Well Burrow certainly looked the part

    For whatever reason they changed their mind halfway through the season. Now we have an empty roster and no unicorn
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    "They" is putting two groups together that probably had separate intentions. I still think Ross wanted to "tank" (deliberately lose), but Flores clearly wanted to win – his job is on the line, regardless of what might or might not have been "promised".

    Anyway, take some comfort in knowing that QB drafting is a crapshoot even for professionals. There are tons of QB's that were hot prospects coming out of college that never made it in the NFL, either they were busts or were no better than average. Can't predict if Burrow will succeed. And it's not like we're in a bad place either. We have the best chance of any team (assuming we don't mess this up) of taking the 2nd most sought after prospect: Tua.

    Tua, if healthy, shouldn't be looked at as a consolation prize. He's actually the guy most wanted before Burrow started lighting things up.
     
  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I've been really high on Burrow all year long but believe it or not, last night gave me doubts for the 1st time. He took that big hit just before the half, wobbled to the sidelines, then looked like he was playing scared in the 3rd quarter. His passes were off, he made poor decisions and I can't help but wonder if he had a concussion.

    However, since he threw some beautiful passes in the 4th and found his rhythm once again, I don't think he was injured...I think he was just scared. The look on his face for most of the 3rd quarter was lost, confused and nervous- I watched every game of his this past season and I never saw that from him before. And I couldn't help but wonder...if that's how he reacts to Clemson (who is DEFINITELY a champion-caliber team), how's he going to react in the NFL behind a poor offensive line? I personally don't think he's ready just yet.

    As I've said all season long, his talent is undeniable- fantastic QB that can do it all. From a skill perspective he's better than Tua or Lawrence. I suddenly wonder if it will translate though and I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't go 1st overall. I could actually see Cinci taking Tua now...as crazy as that sounds.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 11:35 AM
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  35. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    The Anti-Tannehill evolution:

    He's a WR | He sucks | He's below average | He's average | He isn't great | He isn't elite | He isn't Mahomes

    Or

    You can't win with him | He'll never take a team to the playoffs | He'll never win a playoff game | He certainly won't win in the playoffs at NE | He'll never win in the playoffs in Balt. | He won't win in KC completely by himself
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Bodes well for RT if that trend continues...not that it will lol, that's a TALL order.
     
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  37. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    It's okay to disagree, but my opinion personally is that long term we would have been much better off ending up with pick #1 or #2 at the very least.

    In the end, it doesnt matter if we succeed, but I'm personally of the opinion the wins were more of a detriment than an advantage.

    It's not like we found a lot of long term starters and success stories. 90% of the roster will still be turned over within a couple seasons IMO so it's not like we built anything to really stand on.

    Again obviously this is just my opinion and like I said, if we succeed it wont matter how we did it.
     
  38. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That's the whole thing people forget/ignore- he hasn't "won by himself" this season in Tennessee. They have a few defensive all-stars. They have a great running game. They have two solid receivers that can go up and haul in contested catches. These are things that we never saw in Miami and it's the main difference in the scoreboard.

    And as far as beating KC goes, they already beat KC this season...so that part's already a fact. The only question is if they can do it one more time.
     
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  39. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    An interesting article:
    So, note that the above perspective centers on whether Tannehill has the surroundings that enable him to perform in a low-volume manner.

    https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2...lphins-learn-from-tannehills-postseason-push/
     
  40. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    For years I claimed that some QBs had an advantage over Tannehill because of their supporting cast. I was labeled an "excuse maker" good QBs lift their teams up. There is really little difference in talent between NFL rosters. #AllAboutTheQB.

    Now that Tannehill is succeeding, it is the supporting cast..... He is being carried by the team. The surrounding talent is amazing and unique. #NotAtAllAboutTheQB.

    What a difference a year makes.....
     

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