Thoughts on benching Tua?

I was all for bringing Tua back in the first time he was benched against Denver.

That said, I dont see how you look your team in the eyes with the playoffs on the line and tell them Fitz isnt starting week 17.

Maybe we do win and it turns out fine. I'm just saying from a human perspective if I'm a guy on the roster I know which QB I think gives me the best chance right now.

This is going to sound like a cop out so to speak and it probably is. I want the Giants to beat Baltimore today and that'll be that. We'll have the spot and Tua can go up to Buffalo and play without the must win pressure for at least one game. Maybe he'll let loose and throw all over the place and find his confidence to do it in a playoff game. A more realistic scenario is that Baltimore crushes the Giants and we have to win in Buffalo next week and if that's the case i'm going to watch that game with my eyes closed if Tua starts.

"KeyFin wrote:

I told my dad entering the 4th that Miami wasn't going to win that game with Tua, but I had serious doubts that Flores would bench him. That's such an impossible call...stick with a rookie who's taking a few sacks but playing hard and protecting the football, or bring out the gunslinger in hopes that he can summon some last minute magic?

As I've said all year, Fitz is the better quarterback today, but Tua is the future and needs these reps to get there quickly.

I honestly believe Flores pulled Tua at the perfect time; I personally would have pulled him one series earlier but I was also SHOCKED when Fitzpatrick actually took the field. What a bold move by a young head coach! And I sat there almost sick to my stomach waiting for Fitz to get too aggressive and throw the game-ending pick. Instead, we saw absolute magic from the veteran as he carved up the Raiders and marched down the field.

That final pass, the one where Fitz almost had his head ripped off....that was honestly the most amazing NFL pass I've ever seen in my entire life. I'd love to see some Next Gen stats on the completion possibility of a QB being jerked sideways and to the ground by an illegal grab....you'd think the possibility would be zero. Simply incredible and it only worked because the Raiders blew the coverage that badly.

Going into next Sunday with the chance of playing the Bills two weeks in a row, I don't see how you don't start Fitzpatrick. But the part that really gets me is how Tua/Fitz support each other and work to make each other better. We're going to beat Buffalo folks, I don't know how...but it's going to happen.

I was a bit ambivalent about starting Tagovailoa during what, week 7? I really thought we wouldn't see Tua start until around week 10 when we would have been mathematically "eliminated" from the playoffs. I can't help but feel there was pressure from above to start him for the fan base and of course, the almighty dollar, but that's neither here nor there. It is what it is.

What worries me about Tagovailoa's development is he's been benched twice this season; once when we were being blown out and a second because he wasn't being productive in a close game. It just concerns me that it's going to cause a trust and lack of respect issue. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

Hell on paper, we shouldn't even be where we are right now. At best we should be praying that we could finish the season 8-8...and that would be a stretch, but to be in the position we are now...with such a young and new team? It's utterly amazing.

The fact that Flo has twice brought in the cavalry to try to bail out games should reflect his desire to win. That flies in the face of the notion that he was compelled to put Tua in for reasons other than immediate competitive success. On the other hand, Fitz sees a different game than Tua and his willingness to take risks provides high risk and high rewards on a team lacking playmakers. Flo is making the right calls for the right reasons, both long term and immediate. For someone who is so focused, he's remarkably flexible. He and Matt LeFleur should be the only ones considered for CoY.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Hell on paper, we shouldn't even be where we are right now. At best we should be praying that we could finish the season 8-8...and that would be a stretch, but to be in the position we are now...with such a young and new team? It's utterly amazing.

I know, right? I keep reminding myself that we're playing with house money this season. We undertook a foundational rebuild that typically would take 3-4 years to deliver results and it looks like we're at least a year ahead of schedule.

Could you imagine Marino or Manning getting benched multiple times during their rookie season?
Flores has a potential mess on his hands if he starts Tua next week and has to bench him yet again.
I'm no football historian but, I'm guessing that benching a rookie QB three times is a rarity.
Win the game with Tua and the doubts go away but, pull him yet again and the critics will have a field day.
With the play-off on the line I'm thankful I'm not making those decisions.

"OwesOwn614 wrote:

I know, right? I keep reminding myself that we're playing with house money this season. We undertook a foundational rebuild that typically would take 3-4 years to deliver results and it looks like we're at least a year ahead of schedule.

And that’s a clear sign of good coaching, he (Flo) impressed me last year already, but this year is even better. I think Tua will start against Buffalo and Fitz is going to be waiting to do his magic if needed. Don’t think it will affect anything with Tua if he gets pulled this season again, we’re ahead of schedule and he‘s in his first season plus he seems to be a team first guy which makes our QB situation quite unique in the NFL.

"Hooligan wrote:

Could you imagine Marino or Manning getting benched multiple times during their rookie season?
Flores has a potential mess on his hands if he starts Tua next week and has to bench him yet again.
I'm no football historian but, I'm guessing that benching a rookie QB three times is a rarity.
Win the game with Tua and the doubts go away but, pull him yet again and the critics will have a field day.
With the play-off on the line I'm thankful I'm not making those decisions.

I don't think the issue is actually there- not with this team. Tua realizes he's not 100% there yet and Fitz realizes that his job is to be a mentor and a leader from the sidelines. For Fitz, taking the field is a huge bonus for the work he's put in but he also realizes that he's not going to be the starter. Both him and Tua seem okay with that.

If you listen to both Fitz and Tua in their recent interviews when Tua has sat, there's one key sentence each of them said every single time. It was something along the lines of, "Coach Flores pulled me to the side and talked to me at length about what he thought was best for this team." That's true leadership and by setting expectations with two great QB's that also happen to be great people, I just don't think there's controversy there. Both want to play but they also both understand their roles and seem to accept that.

Personally, I would start Fitzpatrick from here on out and that might earn us Super Bowl rings this year. Our goal as fans is on 2020 though and we've completely forgot that this is year 2 (really years 1A & 1B since so much changed) in what was expected to be a 3-5 year rebuild. We are way ahead of schedule and of course I'm being greedy by wanting to win it all right now, but I also accept that we just aren't there 100% yet. I certainly don't "blame Tua" because he's done really well as a rookie and still finding his place in the league.

Yet I can also appreciate the impossible position Flores is in...two very hungry QB's that play completely different styles, with one set to retire and the other being the face of the future franchise. I just feel so lucky we got Fitzpatrick because he's the one who's made this season so special- I don't know that any other QB in the league would have accepted that role knowing that it was going to be carrying a team, being the most important cog in the wheels, and inevitably end up benched while there's still a few drops of gas left in the tank.

All I know is, regardless of who the starting QB might be, we need to win Fitzpatrick a ring before he hangs up the cleats. The guy is just pure class and the PERFECT QB2 for this franchise.

What a send off that would be for one of the most likable and popular guys to wear the aqua and orange (somehow it feels like he’s been here much longer than he has).

Not to mention how great it would be for a long suffering fan base, lol

Why wouldn’t we sign him again next year as a back up?

"Finatik wrote:

Why wouldn’t we sign him again next year as a back up?

Because he might not want that- he has about a dozen kids and his wife is pushing him to retire.

"KeyFin wrote:

Because he might not want that- he has about a dozen kids and his wife is pushing him to retire.

Sign him as the back up and Player QB coach.

Play Tua of Fitz? I feel at this point Coach Flo has made the right moves and my motto is "Let's go with Flo".

Flo has been adamant about one thing since he came here. You earn your place, or you don't play. Its refreshing to see that also apply to a shiny high draft pick QB. If he can't handle being benched, particularly when said benching results in the immediate upswing in offensive production, he don't need to be here.

I don't think that's the case though...I believe he can handle it and use it as fire. The kid doesn't know how to NOT compete. You can see how Flo/Gailey are nudging him along slowly, and I think that's the right way to go. The only thing they've done with him I even partially question is starting him in the first place. Nothing wrong with letting him sit and learn for 2020.

He has the tools, he just needs to arrive...and once he does, we'll be loving it.

I don't think Tua gets benched again this year, but if he does...he'll be ok. He's the future at the position and there is nothing wrong with letting Fitz come in at times for relief to show him how it's supposed to done. This is a unique position for Tua to be in and I think it's only beneficial having Fitz as an ace in the hole if needed. Tua is going to be just fine.

"ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:

I don't think Tua gets benched again this year

If you handed me a roll of $100 bills and said I could only have it if I bet on whether Tua would be benched in the game against the Bills, I would bet that he would be.

I just dont understand the message to the team. This isnt a game where you can afford to NOT put your best foot forward.

What if Fitz DOES need to come in and save the game again? Do you go back to Tua in the postseason? If so why the hell would you?

This season is no longer about the future. You have a chance to win right now without sacrificing the future. To not do that is a bad decision and if we lose I feel most fans and even players will question the decision all offseason.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

I just dont understand the message to the team. This isnt a game where you can afford to NOT put your best foot forward.

What if Fitz DOES need to come in and save the game again? Do you go back to Tua in the postseason? If so why the hell would you?

This season is no longer about the future. You have a chance to win right now without sacrificing the future. To not do that is a bad decision and if we lose I feel most fans and even players will question the decision all offseason.

Trust in Flores is correct. Look what he's done! And the celebrations you see by both Fitz and Tua when the other succeeds is real, that's not made-up. Chemistry looks good so far, and I think the players also know they're playing with house money. So I wouldn't worry about the message being sent (which is play well or you're not playing!).

If Tua ever shows signs of being mentally affected by being benched for poor performance, then maybe you should worry. But you should worry double in that case because that's not the kind of QB we'd want anyway. So far no issues.

I also doubt Flores thinks Fitz gives us a better chance to win despite him jumpstarting the offense twice now when Tua played bad because Tua has played better than Fitz probably would have in other games. Win probability is IMO similar for both QB's. One is too safe, the other too unpredictable lol.

Dwayne Haskins just got released. Didnt even get to complete his second season as a first round quarterback. Josh Rosen got traded away after one season.. we got a possible third pick overall and Zach Wilson may be the second best prospect in the draft. (I dont have Justin Fields rated till #6).

Flores isnt going to tie his coaching career to any one player. If Tua isnt able to make NFL throws, hes out. Hes been looking like Pat White out there.

"cbrad wrote:

Trust in Flores is correct. Look what he's done! And the celebrations you see by both Fitz and Tua when the other succeeds is real, that's not made-up. Chemistry looks good so far, and I think the players also know they're playing with house money. So I wouldn't worry about the message being sent (which is play well or you're not playing!).

If Tua ever shows signs of being mentally affected by being benched for poor performance, then maybe you should worry. But you should worry double in that case because that's not the kind of QB we'd want anyway. So far no issues.

I also doubt Flores thinks Fitz gives us a better chance to win despite him jumpstarting the offense twice now when Tua played bad because Tua has played better than Fitz probably would have in other games. Win probability is IMO similar for both QB's. One is too safe, the other too unpredictable lol.

The way I see it, from here on out Fitz will take the field when we're behind in games and Tua is not moving the offense. I think both players know that and they're comfortable with that. For me, I'd say the chances of us seeing Fitz on the field again this season is pretty close to 100%, especially if we make the playoffs. Someone will take a comfortable lead on us and sit back in that cover-2 deep that favors the aggressive FitzMagic playstyle.

I'm hoping that doesn't happen in Buffalo...but it sort of feels inevitable.

"cbrad wrote:

Trust in Flores is correct. Look what he's done! And the celebrations you see by both Fitz and Tua when the other succeeds is real, that's not made-up. Chemistry looks good so far, and I think the players also know they're playing with house money. So I wouldn't worry about the message being sent (which is play well or you're not playing!).

If Tua ever shows signs of being mentally affected by being benched for poor performance, then maybe you should worry. But you should worry double in that case because that's not the kind of QB we'd want anyway. So far no issues.

I also doubt Flores thinks Fitz gives us a better chance to win despite him jumpstarting the offense twice now when Tua played bad because Tua has played better than Fitz probably would have in other games. Win probability is IMO similar for both QB's. One is too safe, the other too unpredictable lol.

Tua has basically had a couple good games so far. I'm not as down on him as I was, but I dont think any case can be made that he gives a better chance or equal chance at winning in the given scenario.

I dont believe in house money. Your goal is always to win right now and all else be damned because you might never get a chance again.

Flores has done a great job this year after I thought he was total shit in year one, so massive turnaround worth praise. It's nice to have a pretty good HC for once.

That said I wouldnt even trust in God if it descended from the sky, so I have a hard time trusting a human. Humans including myself make mistakes all the time.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

Dwayne Haskins just got released. Didnt even get to complete his second season as a first round quarterback. Josh Rosen got traded away after one season.. we got a possible third pick overall and Zach Wilson may be the second best prospect in the draft. (I dont have Justin Fields rated till #6).

Flores isnt going to tie his coaching career to any one player. If Tua isnt able to make NFL throws, hes out. Hes been looking like Pat White out there.

Pat White??? C'mon man. A few games yes, but he's also looked like a potential great in others. Mostly he's been straddling average which is decent for a rookie.

I think you're vastly mistaken if you think we'll pick a QB high in 2021. They're going to give Tua some offensive weapons to work with first and see how he develops in the offseason before moving on to another QB.

"cbrad wrote:

Pat White??? C'mon man. A few games yes, but he's also looked like a potential great in others. Mostly he's been straddling average which is decent for a rookie.

I think you're vastly mistaken if you think we'll pick a QB high in 2021. They're going to give Tua some offensive weapons to work with first and see how he develops in the offseason before moving on to another QB.

The guy has the body of a field goal kicker, has poor vision downfield, cant throw in tight windows, has no arm strength. It would be a big mistake to pass on Zach Wilson if hes there to take.

My concern about Tua outside of his size and history of injuries, is that he looks like a game manager. I watched Fitzpatrick move this offense, with no legitimate WR’s, up and down the field where Tua was averaging 4 YPA and the offense was floundering. Maybe if you surround Tua with enough talent, he can play at a high level but I’m not sold on him at this point.

"cbrad wrote:

Pat White??? C'mon man. A few games yes, but he's also looked like a potential great in others. Mostly he's been straddling average which is decent for a rookie.

I think you're vastly mistaken if you think we'll pick a QB high in 2021. They're going to give Tua some offensive weapons to work with first and see how he develops in the offseason before moving on to another QB.

The ones he looked great, we had Parker, Williams and Gisecki with guys like Grant as your #4 option. Let's be fair here...all four of those names could demand a double-team (depending on the route) and someone is always wide open with our true starters on the field. Tua did look good with the starters but so did Fitzpatrick.

In more recent games, we had Grant as our #1 and practice squad players/backup tight ends as the #2-5 guys. I'm not knocking anyone because they played hard, but the separation just wasn't there and Tua tried like mad not to turn over the football. In early games, he took some chances and almost had several picked off, which I think he's learned from. But now he's too conservative throwing to below-average NFL receivers and there's simply no comparison to 5 or 6 weeks ago. This isn't the same team as then because of Parker & Williams.

By the way, huge news- Preston Williams may be able to play this week! Flores said today there's a chance!

Anyway, right now, in this offense, Tua is not a suitable starter. I'm sorry, he's just not because he has a lot to learn and not enough weapons on offense to get any sort of rhythm. Now, you give him a healthy Williams, Gisecki & Parker then my story instantly changes because we're a dynamic offense again and Tua should capitalize.