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Thoughts on benching Tua?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jdallen1222, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Could you imagine Marino or Manning getting benched multiple times during their rookie season?
    Flores has a potential mess on his hands if he starts Tua next week and has to bench him yet again.
    I'm no football historian but, I'm guessing that benching a rookie QB three times is a rarity.
    Win the game with Tua and the doubts go away but, pull him yet again and the critics will have a field day.
    With the play-off on the line I'm thankful I'm not making those decisions.
     
  2. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    And that’s a clear sign of good coaching, he (Flo) impressed me last year already, but this year is even better. I think Tua will start against Buffalo and Fitz is going to be waiting to do his magic if needed. Don’t think it will affect anything with Tua if he gets pulled this season again, we’re ahead of schedule and he‘s in his first season plus he seems to be a team first guy which makes our QB situation quite unique in the NFL.
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the issue is actually there- not with this team. Tua realizes he's not 100% there yet and Fitz realizes that his job is to be a mentor and a leader from the sidelines. For Fitz, taking the field is a huge bonus for the work he's put in but he also realizes that he's not going to be the starter. Both him and Tua seem okay with that.

    If you listen to both Fitz and Tua in their recent interviews when Tua has sat, there's one key sentence each of them said every single time. It was something along the lines of, "Coach Flores pulled me to the side and talked to me at length about what he thought was best for this team." That's true leadership and by setting expectations with two great QB's that also happen to be great people, I just don't think there's controversy there. Both want to play but they also both understand their roles and seem to accept that.

    Personally, I would start Fitzpatrick from here on out and that might earn us Super Bowl rings this year. Our goal as fans is on 2020 though and we've completely forgot that this is year 2 (really years 1A & 1B since so much changed) in what was expected to be a 3-5 year rebuild. We are way ahead of schedule and of course I'm being greedy by wanting to win it all right now, but I also accept that we just aren't there 100% yet. I certainly don't "blame Tua" because he's done really well as a rookie and still finding his place in the league.

    Yet I can also appreciate the impossible position Flores is in...two very hungry QB's that play completely different styles, with one set to retire and the other being the face of the future franchise. I just feel so lucky we got Fitzpatrick because he's the one who's made this season so special- I don't know that any other QB in the league would have accepted that role knowing that it was going to be carrying a team, being the most important cog in the wheels, and inevitably end up benched while there's still a few drops of gas left in the tank.

    All I know is, regardless of who the starting QB might be, we need to win Fitzpatrick a ring before he hangs up the cleats. The guy is just pure class and the PERFECT QB2 for this franchise.
     
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  4. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

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    What a send off that would be for one of the most likable and popular guys to wear the aqua and orange (somehow it feels like he’s been here much longer than he has).

    Not to mention how great it would be for a long suffering fan base, lol
     
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  5. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why wouldn’t we sign him again next year as a back up?
     
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because he might not want that- he has about a dozen kids and his wife is pushing him to retire.
     
  7. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sign him as the back up and Player QB coach.
     
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  8. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    Play Tua of Fitz? I feel at this point Coach Flo has made the right moves and my motto is "Let's go with Flo".
     
  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Flo has been adamant about one thing since he came here. You earn your place, or you don't play. Its refreshing to see that also apply to a shiny high draft pick QB. If he can't handle being benched, particularly when said benching results in the immediate upswing in offensive production, he don't need to be here.

    I don't think that's the case though...I believe he can handle it and use it as fire. The kid doesn't know how to NOT compete. You can see how Flo/Gailey are nudging him along slowly, and I think that's the right way to go. The only thing they've done with him I even partially question is starting him in the first place. Nothing wrong with letting him sit and learn for 2020.

    He has the tools, he just needs to arrive...and once he does, we'll be loving it.
     
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  10. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Tua gets benched again this year, but if he does...he'll be ok. He's the future at the position and there is nothing wrong with letting Fitz come in at times for relief to show him how it's supposed to done. This is a unique position for Tua to be in and I think it's only beneficial having Fitz as an ace in the hole if needed. Tua is going to be just fine.
     
  11. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If you handed me a roll of $100 bills and said I could only have it if I bet on whether Tua would be benched in the game against the Bills, I would bet that he would be.
     
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  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I just dont understand the message to the team. This isnt a game where you can afford to NOT put your best foot forward.

    What if Fitz DOES need to come in and save the game again? Do you go back to Tua in the postseason? If so why the hell would you?

    This season is no longer about the future. You have a chance to win right now without sacrificing the future. To not do that is a bad decision and if we lose I feel most fans and even players will question the decision all offseason.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Trust in Flores is correct. Look what he's done! And the celebrations you see by both Fitz and Tua when the other succeeds is real, that's not made-up. Chemistry looks good so far, and I think the players also know they're playing with house money. So I wouldn't worry about the message being sent (which is play well or you're not playing!).

    If Tua ever shows signs of being mentally affected by being benched for poor performance, then maybe you should worry. But you should worry double in that case because that's not the kind of QB we'd want anyway. So far no issues.

    I also doubt Flores thinks Fitz gives us a better chance to win despite him jumpstarting the offense twice now when Tua played bad because Tua has played better than Fitz probably would have in other games. Win probability is IMO similar for both QB's. One is too safe, the other too unpredictable lol.
     
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  14. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Dwayne Haskins just got released. Didnt even get to complete his second season as a first round quarterback. Josh Rosen got traded away after one season.. we got a possible third pick overall and Zach Wilson may be the second best prospect in the draft. (I dont have Justin Fields rated till #6).


    Flores isnt going to tie his coaching career to any one player. If Tua isnt able to make NFL throws, hes out. Hes been looking like Pat White out there.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The way I see it, from here on out Fitz will take the field when we're behind in games and Tua is not moving the offense. I think both players know that and they're comfortable with that. For me, I'd say the chances of us seeing Fitz on the field again this season is pretty close to 100%, especially if we make the playoffs. Someone will take a comfortable lead on us and sit back in that cover-2 deep that favors the aggressive FitzMagic playstyle.

    I'm hoping that doesn't happen in Buffalo...but it sort of feels inevitable.
     
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  16. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Tua has basically had a couple good games so far. I'm not as down on him as I was, but I dont think any case can be made that he gives a better chance or equal chance at winning in the given scenario.

    I dont believe in house money. Your goal is always to win right now and all else be damned because you might never get a chance again.

    Flores has done a great job this year after I thought he was total **** in year one, so massive turnaround worth praise. It's nice to have a pretty good HC for once.

    That said I wouldnt even trust in God if it descended from the sky, so I have a hard time trusting a human. Humans including myself make mistakes all the time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  17. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Pat White??? C'mon man. A few games yes, but he's also looked like a potential great in others. Mostly he's been straddling average which is decent for a rookie.

    I think you're vastly mistaken if you think we'll pick a QB high in 2021. They're going to give Tua some offensive weapons to work with first and see how he develops in the offseason before moving on to another QB.
     
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  18. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    The guy has the body of a field goal kicker, has poor vision downfield, cant throw in tight windows, has no arm strength. It would be a big mistake to pass on Zach Wilson if hes there to take.
     
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  19. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    My concern about Tua outside of his size and history of injuries, is that he looks like a game manager. I watched Fitzpatrick move this offense, with no legitimate WR’s, up and down the field where Tua was averaging 4 YPA and the offense was floundering. Maybe if you surround Tua with enough talent, he can play at a high level but I’m not sold on him at this point.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The ones he looked great, we had Parker, Williams and Gisecki with guys like Grant as your #4 option. Let's be fair here...all four of those names could demand a double-team (depending on the route) and someone is always wide open with our true starters on the field. Tua did look good with the starters but so did Fitzpatrick.

    In more recent games, we had Grant as our #1 and practice squad players/backup tight ends as the #2-5 guys. I'm not knocking anyone because they played hard, but the separation just wasn't there and Tua tried like mad not to turn over the football. In early games, he took some chances and almost had several picked off, which I think he's learned from. But now he's too conservative throwing to below-average NFL receivers and there's simply no comparison to 5 or 6 weeks ago. This isn't the same team as then because of Parker & Williams.

    By the way, huge news- Preston Williams may be able to play this week! Flores said today there's a chance!

    Anyway, right now, in this offense, Tua is not a suitable starter. I'm sorry, he's just not because he has a lot to learn and not enough weapons on offense to get any sort of rhythm. Now, you give him a healthy Williams, Gisecki & Parker then my story instantly changes because we're a dynamic offense again and Tua should capitalize.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You're WAY overestimating our receiving talent. This team has no serious receiving threats, though Gesicki does come close. Our WR's? None of them deserve double team and none strike fear into offenses. So when Tua looked great he did so with average receiving talent. That btw is why any halfway smart GM will prioritize getting Tua some offensive weapons this offseason because we really have none.
     
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  22. MrPhinn

    MrPhinn Member

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    Tua is struggling. If you can win now, why not win now. Put your best out on the field. If it's Fitz, then it's Fitz. Tua's chance will come. (hopefully). Fitz came in and took the team right down the field. If this team makes the playoff, you can't have 45yds passing at halftime and expect to win. You gotta take chances. I say take it with Fitz.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, they both had the same players Saturday, and Tua and the offense were not moving the ball, but Fitzpatrick came in and it was completely different.
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Obviously, but that doesn't change what I said. We have at best average receiving threats, with possibly Gesicki being a bit better than average. None of our receiving threats are actual "threats" a defense has to worry about.
     
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  25. Fireland

    Fireland Member

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    There is zero chance of that happening so get a grip
     
  26. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Tua's a rookie coming off a major hip injury. No benefit of a full preseason, training camp or skilled WR corp.

    I'm all for Fitzpatrick starting, something that I've been stating all season even after Tua was named the starter. I've felt and continue to feel that making the playoffs and possibly winning a game is what the team should hope for this year. Fitz gives us the best chance for that and frankly the idea that he's never done it before means nothing to me. It's a weak pro Tua argument. If Fitz isn't pulled we likely win at least one more game (Denver).

    That hasn't changed. I was fully OK with Tua sitting the entire season.

    With that being said, it's foolish to ignore the facts I mentioned above. You can love Fitz and what he brings to the table and still be a proponent of Tua long term as a potential franchise QB.

    He's a rookie playing like a rookie.
     
  27. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Fitz has had 16 years to play at a high level and absorb multiple playbooks and looks.

    Tua is a rookie who has most likely been instructed to avoid all turnovers and contact. He needs a full offseason program, training camp and preseason to continue his development. I'm not worried slightly about Fitz outplaying him. Fitz has shown the ability to play at an elite level for stretches. Look at last year - He led Miami to a 5-4 record down the stretch and was the teams leading rusher. He's much better than people will ever give him credit for.
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I was not in any way speaking about Tua's future development. I was referring specifically to this last game. Cbrad was talking about Fitz playing with the starters, and I was pointing out that both QBs had the same players in Saturdays game.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know- both Parker and Williams have had some elite moments these past two seasons. I agree with Grant, he's a specialist and not a 3 down guy....but he's almost always in double coverage with the safety help due to his speed and route trees. Williams is a serous problem because he can catch anything within a 3-5 yard radius down field.

    Parker- well honestly, I hate to say anything good about him because I've been fed up with that experiment for years now. He does have his moments though of looking like that alpha #1.
     
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  30. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There seems to be some sentiment that's pervading the forum nowadays that Tua for some reason shouldn't have functioned like a typical rookie QB this season. I'm seeing all sorts of explanations for his performance other than the most likely one: inexperience.
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not exactly...it's that he hasn't functioned like a QB worthy of #5 overall, and would have been #1 if he hadn't hurt his hip. So people I think are right to question, to some extent, when the rookie looks worse than other rookies.

    I said it before, but I watch almost every Alabama game, and I never found myself watching them saying, "Man, I hope we can draft this kid!!"

    But I see people who gave no allowances for Tannehill, giving plenty of allowances for Tua.
     
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  32. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Right or wrong, he will always be compared to his QB counterparts from the first round. At this point, they are way ahead of Tua.

    I like Tuas character, his poise and his understanding of the field. I still question whether he can stay healthy and whether he has a NFL arm. My concern is we spent the #5 pick on a very good game manager.
     
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  33. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Keep in mind that Tua has been involved in 285 plays, whereas Burrow 485 and Herbert 663.
     
  34. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Meanwhile, the one so many of us wanted is shattering rookie season records while putting up Josh Allen type production. How could our Scouting Dept, overlook someone so obvious and instead pick the one that spent much of his junior season wearing a hospital gown?
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And? I'm not saying I don't think Tua's the guy. But he certainly hasn't sold me yet. I find it funny the excuses people are giving Tua. Can you imagine if Miami didn't have the #1 defense, and Tua was having to score 25-30 points a game? He would look terrible.
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Have to give it a bit more time before proclaiming Herbert > Tua. Dak Prescott came in 3rd in league passer rating his rookie year compared to 14th currently for Herbert and he didn't turn out great. Same with RG3 who looked like he was setting the league on fire his rookie year: 3rd in passer rating that year, nothing since the injury.

    So it's not obvious Herbert was the better choice. Besides, statistically Herbert has a rating of 96.3 while Tua is at 93.2. Both are straddling average from an efficiency point of view. Neither is doing "great" when you ignore they're rookies. Give it 3 years or so and we'll see which actually was the better choice.
     
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  37. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    3 years, 5 years, 10 years,, I'll be here rooting for whoever is playing for Miami and, b1tching if we're not winning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  38. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Bob Griese: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrieBo00.htm

    Terry Bradshaw: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm

    Ken Stabler: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StabKe00.htm

    Roger Staubach: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StauRo00.htm

    All Hall of Fame QBs and if you take a look at their early numbers they all struggled, in many cases greatly, Bradshaw was a turnover machine before he put it together.

    And there are more stories like this, stop writing off young QBs in such a hurried fashion.
     
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  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big Tua guy but you can't compare him to quarterbacks from the 70's.
     
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  40. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I didn't compare him to any of them, just making the case even the greats struggled early on.
     
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