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Thoughts on benching Tua?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jdallen1222, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    No, you're just ignoring what everyone else is actually saying. No one--NO ONE--is saying Tua should have won the SB or beaten the Bills. The ONLY thing EVERYONE is saying is that he doesn't show the promise you want from a fifth-overall pick. He's not the kind of QB you want to take as your team's future.

    That's a load of BS. We had TWO first round picks and TWO second round picks last year. Tua was just one. There was plenty of time and opportunity to draft or bring in via FA good WRs and RBs. We just didn't do it. That's the fault of the front office, not some nebulous voice of the fans that doesn't actually have any effect. Ross might have pressured Grier and Flores to take Tua, but he never told them not to take a WR later on.
    In this coming draft, we ALSO have two firsts and two seconds, and there's nothing to prevent us from using one of those firsts and both the seconds to take offensive talent AFTER we take a QB at three.
     
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  2. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We had three (3) first round picks.
     
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  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yes, you're correct. Even less excuse for not taking more offensive weapons.
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    :pity:
    Yea, drafting a SOLID offensive lineman and a SOLID DB were really crappy picks!

    For the first time in ages our OL actually played well and our defense was the number one ranked defense in points allowed.

    Guess we should have built the roof before even building the foundation or walls first.
     
  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think people forget how depleted our roster was. If we had drafted receivers they’d be complaining about OL or DL.

    You don’t go from 2019’s roster and win a championship in a year after you cut out all that fat, traded away several pieces and decided to rebuild.

    If you’re going to rebuild the right way, it’s going to take 3-4 years to get the right pieces, make sure they have the experience and know how to play as a team.
     
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  6. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You actually think Igbinoghene was a better pick then a WR? And you think we should have waited until the SIXTH round to draft a WR?
     
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  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The offensive line ALWAYS has to come first. Otherwise, there's zero chance you get a good evaluation on your QB or other skill positions (for more information, visit the Ryan Tannehill thread).

    The QB HAS TO come 2nd, because he has to know that offense inside and out. You don't need elite receivers for the QB to learn the offense and execute.

    However, we took a parallel path by getting the QB and building a very elite defensive secondary. That also trumps the need for elite skill players on offense since it lessens the production you need to win.

    The final steps are those skill guys- WR's, TE's and RB's. Luckily we came into this with Gisecki and we drafted a few bruisers last year that have already paid dividends. TE is checked off (unless we go after Pitts, which is hard to pass on). This draft is also fairly deep at WR with several elite choices, so it was the right move to wait there. And honestly, we might pass on RB despite how bad many of us want Harris or Etienne...they're luxuries that this team may not see as viable.

    The truth of the matter is that we're a 10-win team by getting the first two steps right- the line and the QB. Maybe Tua's not the answer, but if we didn't draft him then it's super hard to get those complimentary pieces in the 2021 draft that we loaded up for.
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Agreed. The 0-4 team that started last season looked to be the worst team I have ever seen. The worst. It wasn't close.

    If you told me then that in 2020 Miami would be 1 game out of the playoffs with a 10-6 record I would have laughed at you until I passed out from laughing so hard at how ridiculous that statement is.
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Clearly not true. Seattle won a SB without a good OL and with a QB that people could see was elite despite a bad OL.

    But even if you leave out exceptions like that, you can't go in with the mentality that you have to build the OL first because you only rarely have a top pick, and that means using it on a QB if you need one. We made the mistake of thinking OL first QB second when we took Long instead of Ryan in 2008. The hand you're dealt (in the draft) has a huge impact on whether you go QB first or OL first, so it's not prudent to think it has to be one or the other.

    That btw is why the argument people here who want to use the #3 pick on a QB has some merit IMO: we won't get the chance to pick this high again given how good our defense is. I just think that doesn't outweigh the massive evidence that you can't look at a QB's rookie year and see how he'll turn out, especially when it's quite clear we have no real offensive weapons.

    Either way, when you take that QB is not something you set in stone. It should be dictated by circumstances. There are many teams that took their QB early and succeeded, and many that took him late after other pieces were in place and succeeded. There's no simple formula for this.
     
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  10. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We tried that. Remember Jake Long and then Chad Henne? Didn't work out so well. Long was great, but the QBs he was protecting...not so much.
     
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  11. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    If we’re going to use history as the reference point for what’s going to happen going forward, we’ve been a bottom dweller for 15+ years and should just quit playing football.

    You can’t honestly believe that football teams are built from the outside in?

    Look at every super bowl champion over the last 20 years and you’ll see most consistently: QB, defense, OL. If you can’t protect your QB or keep an offense honest by being able to effectively run the ball, it makes everything much harder.
     
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  12. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    That's a ridiculous statement. History is the ONLY thing you can use as a reference point. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get the same result.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You can't think of a worse human being than Tua? So Hitler wasn't a worse human being than Tua?

    You know, in another thread I pointed out you had multiple posts showing this visceral hatred for Tua right after we drafted him, and attacked posters thinking otherwise. You said you had changed since then and that it wasn't fair to bring that up.

    But you've gone back to that now repeatedly, albeit without the personal attacks on other posters, and also said you won't support this team if Tua is the QB. So this is who you are. It's not an accident you're saying this.

    As far as his religion, I'm about the least religious person you'll find, but I have no problem getting along with religion people. Decreasing the influence of religion has less to do with hating religion people than increasing their dependency on problem solving methodologies that are evidence based instead of faith based. For example, there's no other viable method for the Navy to develop a quieter submarine than through science. Religion is useless there. And statistics in the US (historically a bit of an outlier in terms of religiosity among advanced nations) show continued decrease in religiosity since the end of the Cold War, and also since 9-11.

    Be careful with your hatred. It can lead to the exact opposite result from what you'd wish.
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Russell Wilson is clearly the exception to every QB rule in the history of the NFL. He is not a valid example unless you're discussing a freak of nature.
     
  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Clearly it is true otherwise every team in the NFL would follow the Seattle blueprint.
    You really need to quit with the personal attacks. Tua Tagovailoa has done nothing to you personally to wish his death.

    I guess you’re also going to wish for my death...or RevRick’s death as well?

    Tua has never once pressed his religious views on you. Live and let live
     
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  16. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    What does what happened under Bill Parcells 13 years ago have to do with Grier and Flores?
     
  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Sigh. You can't actually be serious, can you? So, every season, you wipe your memory of the past like a discarded hard drive and never use the decisions and philosophies you've seen before as any sort of guide? That's how you roll?
     
  18. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Alex, get a grip... Give Jesusboy a chance and bottle up your hatred (what did he do to you?), you can unleash it if he really stinks it up bad next year or doesn't improve at all unless you got Tua-Tourette-Syndrome...
     
  19. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You answered a question with questions and insults. Lol, ok. If we’re going to play this game, your response answered my conclusion that you really have no idea what you’re talking about, are completely unrealistic and literally have no idea how organizational leadership works.

    I would attempt to engage in this conversation but there’s no point in wasting my time. Have a good day sir.
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Look around the NFL. Tons of teams take their QB before they have an OL in place. So suggesting that NFL teams are following OL first QB second strategy is simply false. And Seattle isn't the only SB winning team with a bad OL. You remember how much Eli had to maneuver in order to win the SB in both 2007 and 2011?

    There are many QB's where you can see they're elite or very good with a bad OL. Rodgers hasn't always had a solid OL. And look at Watson in Houston. It's amazing what he's been able to do with a bad OL. There's an entire spectrum of how well QB's play with a bad OL. It's not Wilson vs. everyone else.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    That is such an extreme viewpoint, man.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, I mean, you don't go OL when you have a question at QB, and there are elite prospects available.
     
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  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, we tried that, Henne got injured and then Pennington brought us to the playoffs with that line. Once Henne returned (due to Penny getting hurt), he couldn't run the Pennington dink/dunk offense as effectively and we traded him away the following year.

    Then we fired the fist pumping coach.
    Then we fired the GM.
    Then we spent years rebuilding.
    Then we had LockerGate where we lost multiple linemen.

    It doesn't change that fact that a solid line allowed us to properly evaluate QB's while winning football games...because we had one heck of a run game and solid QB protection. The line HAS TO come first to properly evaluate what you have.
     
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  24. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    It seems though that the exception to the rules must apparently BE the rule...because if “he” or “they” did it, everyone can
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    The point is that we tried with a lesser-rated QB and by the time we found out he was rated lower for a reason, it was too late. We'd wasted many opportunities to get someone better.
     
  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    You have a very loose and defensive definition of "insult."
     
  27. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Desiring someone dead is beyond acceptable. This thread is closed
     
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