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This Team is Chronically Sick - Don't expect winning until we're cured.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Some further thoughts on this.

    What HC worth his salt is going to want to come to Miami?
    Do Ross and Grier see how this looks?
    A HC came to work for them. They chose him.
    He became pretty well.loved among some, at least and had some success during a hard rebuild.
    They're saying that they believe in the roster they have assembled but they're also saying the HC can choose his QB.
    However, Grier chose the QB with Flores, his own HC, and apparently they were in disagreement with either the choice itself or the readiness of the QB last year, and Grier got his choice of QB, maybe not Flores.So will the HC really get to choose? And it seems like Grier and/or Ross forced Flores to start Tua over Fitz and in such a way that the OC found out about it via the news...

    It sounds like Ross and/or Grier are domineering and will cut anyone who isn't on board with them.

    Whatever Flores' faults, and maybe he was a monster, Grier and Ross still don't look good hear.

    I don't think anyone will actually want to come here. But we might get someone who has no other options whether because he isn't great or is a first time HC. Whatever the case, it likely won't last

    We have a high level leadership problem in this franchise. We will not be a winning, successful franchise until it is resolved.

    The dysfunction is real.
     
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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I cosign everything you posted. I cannot stand Stephen Ross. And although Flo's constantly rotating coaching staff was unsustainable, it's clear that his defense was good/great because it followed his lead. The offense was a muddle, but since the trade deadline, it seems to have become much more cohesive from a cultural standpoint. The man coached a consistently sub-mediocre team to its first back-to-back winning seasons in 20 years and got fired. I agree, I can't see any really hot candidates wanting to step into a job knowing he's on the hot seat on day one. Harbaugh's coming to Miami and Ross denied it because he doesn't want to be seen as ignoring the Rooney Rule. Watch.

    Seriously, we play the same stoopid games and win the same stoopid prizes under Ross and I'm just tired. Personally, I had plenty of problems with Flo. I put a huge amount of blame for this season on him. But with that being said, terminating him seems to be a disingenuous way to achieving some other end. If I had money to bet, we're going to see both Watson and Harbaugh in Miami in the next month. I may be on the cusp of being a much more casual Dolphins fan than I was yesterday.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    There's talk saying Flores and Watson were connected. If that's true and Watson doesn't end up in jail or without a career, then if we see Watson playing for Flores elsewhere that will confirm it.

    If Watson still comes to Miami without Flores we'll know that was nonsense.

    Lots of talk denying the Harbaugh thing. I've no idea what's real there.

    We just have to wait and see, and hopefully this won't take 6 months to get sorted. But something is wrong with Grier and/or Ross. So I don't think this teams succeeds unless something changes there, or they luck into the exact perfect fit of a HC to go along with their mindset. Which is unlikely.
     
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  4. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    After this firing, I can’t argue with you anymore. Ross is the beginning and ending of our problems . He’s been the one constant in this s***show
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not going to stop being a Dolphins fan but man- we go from sweeping the Pats to starting over in 24 hours. I almost guarantee that there will be some players who want out after this...and they're all going to be on the defensive side of the ball. Talk about killing the mood for the offseason. I can honestly say that I do not want to be a Dolphins fan anymore with Ross at the helm.
     
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  6. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, our rebuild is getting a rebuild! Thats the Grier and Ross way!
     
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  7. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Rebuild inception.
     
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  8. Pennphinphan

    Pennphinphan AKA Pennphinfan but I forgot my login

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  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    "The QB decision will be up.to the next head coach."

    So said Ross.

    It was weird at the time and now, sure enough, it's not the case.



    Dysfunctional franchise.

    This isn't the Miami Dolphins I fell in love with. The name is there, the colours, they occupy the space, but this isnt the Dolphins.

    The team I love and want to follow is only a memory long since gone.

    Until an owner who loves football and has some integrity takes over, Miami will be run be imposters.

    It's sad.
     
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  10. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Expectation and plan doesn't necessarily mean it isn't up to the coach to be fair

    But they probably aren't going to hire a coach that wants them to go trade for Jimmy G either and with a mediocre draft class what else do we expect them to do other then stick with Tua? Its probably the only realistic plan.
     
  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    It's not sticking with Tua that bugs me. It's the spin and lies and other dysfunction.
     
  12. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    Ross doesn’t make football decisions. If and thats a big if since it’s never been confirmed that call to watson happened. I bet it was about protecting his franchise from pr more than caring about watson. He literally lets the coach and gm do whatever they want. Its always been his mo. I dont care who the coach is, if you draft a qb top 5 and want to dump him after he plays 9 games where you were never all in on him in the first place pulling him for fitz etc. Then you deserve to get fired. Even if tua ends up the worst qb in the nfl. You dont get to move off him that quick and keep your job. This is why grier should have been fired also but im guessing he stayed because he believes in tua and pointed at flores not even giving it a chance to work.
     
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  13. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    We did have way better times...
     
  14. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Watching Allen destroy the Cheatriots, it doesn’t really matter, it’s going to be hard to win the AFC East. They seem to have a good front office good HC and they got their franchise QB all things we don’t have…
     
  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Umm, don't forget that we just destroyed the Patriots as well...
     
  16. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Then we should be fighting for the AFC crown next season, right?
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Against Buffalo, yes.
     
  18. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I believe it, when I see it with my own eyes…
     
  19. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Nice piece except for the commercials...
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Thinking about the leadership/ownership issues with this team I was certain I'd posted things about this some years ago so I thought I'd do a search to find them, here are some previous years' posts - anything sound familiar?

    From 2015:
    "Roster improvements but worse performance.

    You know what I think we're seeing here?

    Amongst individual failures or lack of ability, I think we might be seeing the result of a bad leadership/management implementation, resulting in a lack of clear leadership, resulting in an unclear, unfocused, incapable team.

    Remember when everyone said Ross should clean house, and he didn't?
    Then remember when he had a new GM attached to his HC put himself, an out of town owner, at the top of the tree?
    And then remember when he brought in Tannenbaum and added him into the mix with still further lack of clarity?

    Answer the following questions - Who's in charge of this team? Who is it who sets vision? Who's driving?

    Those are questions I can't answer, and I'm beginning to think more and more that the team performance is a picture of the leadership situation. Which is what is supposed to happen."


    From the same thread:
    "Scheme comes from leadership, the coaches. I'm not just talking about the FO. The coordinators have issues, the HC has issues, however, this game isn't played by machines but people and people are subject to, and draw from, the influence of culture, identity, atmosphere, and leadership. All of the coordinators/HC have issues, apparently, but more than that, I believe that there is more going on here that that.

    And yeah, the OL is the biggest need on this team, along with the secondary, but take a look at the DL. They should be fine, but they aren't. The problems this team is going through, even the wider issues that come from and also add to leadership problems, cannot be solved with this current structure. Things will get more and more bitter and there will be no way to fix it. Someone needs to be the leader on this team. I believe it should be the HC. If it's not Philbin then give leadership to someone else and let them bring in their own HC. Someone, ONE person needs to be able to stand up and be able to take responsibility."


    From 2016:
    "Is Miami an attractive coaching destination?"
    "A BleacherReport article by a writer I like - Ian Wharton - suggests Miami is an attractive destination this year (2nd only to the New York Giants).

    What do you think - are there issues here that will turn off potential candidates?

    ....

    "Negatives:

    1. Power Structure

    The negative of Ross is that he has created a convoluted power structure in Miami. The franchise still has strong Bill Parcells ties, and the move to make Mike Tannenbaum the new czar may turn some candidates off. It's possible everyone will report to Tannenbaum, and then he will make the final decision. This plan may end up becoming a positive, as the structure itself has been successful elsewhere. But trusting this group of individuals right now could be difficult. High-caliber coaches may steer away from such an arrangement..."

    How long has Ross done thing with the leadership that is just weird? How recently have there been issues and a lack of clarity. Even though we now have an apparent structure whereby Tannenbaum is 'the' guy in the organisation, even his installation into the scheme was done messily. Maybe Wharton could have produced a better structured mini-paragraph but I think what he's saying is clear and could be a real consideration for potential coaches. There hasn't really been a clean sweep in Miami, a true house cleaning. One thing has dripped into the next...

    More than just the structure itself, it's how things got there.
    I think there are a good number of people who might look at the Ross' history and the current situation and have questions. So I think it's fair to bring it up."


    From 2018:
    "...We've had high-level leadership issues in this organisation for a while. Remember the whole who answers to whom thing? It's been bad leadership structure and it needs cleaning up. I want to see Gase AND ANY HC FROM HERE FORWARD - given full control/say into the GM choice. You can't ask any HC to produce results and then limit their ability to produce. You also can't bring in a HC - as they did with Gase - and impose conditions, e.g. Gase has to be the play caller.

    You bring in someone to take the helm, then give them the helm.

    Is Gase the answer, I'm not convinced, but I'm also not convinced he's been allowed to do what he wants. And I've never been convinced by Tannenbaum."




    From 2019:
    "I'm not sure we need to say the blame lies with either Gase or Ross. I think it's clear it was both of them to various degrees.

    Ross has had bad leadership structure in place for a years. He's listened to questionable voices.

    Gase relied too much on past connections and personnel and called some really odd plays.

    Beyond that I think the indications are that Gase felt less and less comfortable in Miami. Did he face too many restrictions to really do what he wanted? Was there a disconnect between Gase and Tannenbaum? Hard to say. I suspect as much. Did Gase just have to learn some hard lessons in his first head coaching job? Definitely. Now he'll likely have a chance to move on and try again.

    As for Ross, all I can say is I'm glad he moved on from Tannenbaum and I'll glad he's changed the leadership structure. I don't know if Grier is the answer, but it's a legitimate improvement.""


    Round and round we go. Stephen Ross doesn't know how to build a football team starting with the leadership structure. Are we tired of seeing Miami teams getting 'cute' on the field with weird play calls? Let's get more tired of Ross getting 'cute' with weird hiring and odd calls on restrictions and structures.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2022
  21. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Bengals give me a little hope, that it might change around here some day…
     
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  22. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Worst record in the league two years ago. Super Bowl now. We are treadmilling our asses off and we arent even close to being as good as the Bengals. Starts at generational quarterback, two badass receivers and a badass running back.
     
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  23. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Fitting that the Bengals worst Lineman was picked by the Dolphins a few years ago. Yet with a line just as bad as our Burrow leads the league in deep passes by a wide margin.
     
  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The Bengals line is not just as bad as ours. They were ranked #20 in the NFL, the dolphins oline was ranked last in the NFL, by a good margin.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
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  25. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Chronically.
    Sick.

    It's this. It's always been this.

    THIS is the problem with the Dolphins.

    However, we've got beyond chronic sickness. At this point, the Ross Dolphins are terminally sick.
    The Ross Dolphins need to be put down.

    A new Dolphins era needs to begin with a clean slate.
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, but do I have to remind you that we've been winning? You were wrong by default, and somehow you might still turn out to be right.
     
  27. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    I hear what you're saying, we won some games. I don't think I was saying we'd never win another game. This it was still a season where we didn't reach the playoffs and again, we're losing in terms of firing a head coach and now a massive scandal, maybe the worst scandal in recent NFL history. I think I was on the money. It's always been the leadership.
     
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  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Ask me what I think the problem is.
     
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  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    What you think the problem is?
     
  30. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    idiots like me who keep buying season tickets
     
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  31. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Hopefully this is enough to get everybody to not but season tix until Ross sells the team. The only way to hurt him is by kicking him in the wallet.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Winning enough to be average IS THE PROBLEM. We are interminably stuck in mediocrity because for 20 years we've won just enough games to pick outside the top 10, and the couple of chances we've had to actually have bad records and high draft picks, we have ****ed it up by winning MEANINGLESS GAMES. I don't want meaningless wins. I want a team that is a perennial contender, winning 11 or more games a year, and going deep in the playoffs.

    We need an elite QB to be there.

    We don't have one.
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I completely get that. But when's the last time we had two winning seasons to build off of? And if you look at just the last half of the 2021 season, it sure did look like we were on track with an 8-1 finish. I get we're not there yet, but your team has to start somewhere.

    But none of that matters now because we blew everything up anyway.
     
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  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You can only go as far as your QB. To me, Tua is another in a line of QBs good though to give you hope, but ultimately, not good enough.

    I couldn't care less about winning seasons, ESPECIALLY with the new 17 game season, it actually is going to cause the middle of the pack teams to stay middle of the pack. Who cares if we go 10-7? 10-7 will be the new 9-7. Winning record, sure, but not good enough to be a playoff team, and yet good enough to never be in the mix for an elite QB prospect. Just mired in the doldrums of mediocrity.

    We've been experiencing it for 20 years, and people still don't seem to get it. Lol
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again, I'm not disagreeing. But it's a lot easier to get a 10-win team to 12 wins than it is a 3-win team.

    The biggest thing in football that the average fan doesn't think about is consistency. Parker is consistently injured...we're nailing it there, LOL...but that's obviously not the consistency I'm talking about. It's one thing to implement a new offense and spend a season working out the kinks, but it's a completely different story what that offense looks like in year 3 or year 5 if it's pretty much the same core players. We haven't had that since the mid-90's.

    I get it- Tua is not elite. And it would be a heck of a lot easier to build around an elite quarterback. But at some point, we have to build around what we have and stick with something. The cover zero is a great example, that's been forming for three seasons now and the front office wants to keep it in tact. That's smart. But we have to do that on the other side of the football as well.

    Most would say there's about six to eight elite quarterbacks in football. Mahommes. Rodgers. Watson. Wilson. Shockingly, all four of those are suddenly available. But we can never get them here if we're always rebuilding, always swapping out staff, etc. The rebuild has to stop sometime!

    And even if you don't have that elite quarterback, it doesn't change the recipe...you need three starting-caliber receivers who can actually start each week. You need depth at the offensive line, not a room full of guys who are barely old enough to buy alcohol. And you need an elite defense, which somehow we actually have (or had...because I feel like we're about to lose it). Then you just need consistency until you have the right QB.
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not when you're always overachieving to get to 10.
     
  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know- aren't the Bengals overachieving this season? Wasn't the 49ers? We were on that path and lost one lousy game out of nine. I know we weren't a true contender for the top teams, but I think we could have eliminated some of the other scrubs anyway.

    My point here is- what would one more year with this team have looked like? Surely we would have improved some on offense next season. It's building blocks.
     
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  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Yeah, see, you guys are missing the point of this thread. Whatever the correct solution for this team in terms of players, none of it matters if we have a broken foundation in the top brass. Where we end up choosing the wrong players, or coaches, or sabotaging the team in other ways, the solution for Miami HAS to be one that goes beyond players/strategy. If this team isn't fixed at the management level, the rest of it will never come about. That's Miami's biggest problem.
     
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  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's exactly what I was getting at- who do you think keeps firing the coaches, GM's, etc? This is probably the best chance we'll have of forcing Ross out and I think that's the only chance a new chapter, a more permanent chapter, can begin.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't think the Bengals overachieved. They've got what looks to be an elite QB, and they seem turned around. I think Jimmy G gets too much hate.

    Ross is a massive problem, in that he never completely cleans house. He keeps saddling the incoming coach with a questionable QB, and a GM completely sold on the questionable QB.

    Rinse and repeat. That's why Flores really screwed us so hard by playing Fitz.

    Yeah I loved watching Fitz and his energy, and I loved the wins. But that was a momentary success, that was not ever EVER going to translate into long term success.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022
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