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This defence sure seems a better fit for a 3-4

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    With addition of Jordan would we better off in a 3-4 with wake and Jordan as the outside lbs instread of him coming off the bench on third down?We already have a true nose tackle with solia and two decent 3-4 defensive ends in starks,odrick.We play the pats twice and its going to be hard for him to get in the game with their hurry offence.Only way we beat the pats is to put brady on his ***!
     
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I was thinking the same thing over the weekend.

    However Miami does play a mixture of the two.
     
  3. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Our defense is a 34 defense for all intents and purposes. We just tell Wake up put his hand on the ground. Schematically, it's closer to a 34 than a 43.
     
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  4. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    They do but this year we need Jordan on the field to help wake.I am not sure he is physical enough to play defensive end.
     
  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I do think he is physical enough to play defensive end. Miami also has enough to spell him.

    However I think it is a waste of talent to put him as only a defensive end. IMO he should play a "tiger" or whatever the line up everywhere role is called in Miami.
     
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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    Completely agreed and I wish they would do it. You build it, embed it and if its done right you get what the steelers have gotten over the years. Its not a bad way to go if you think about it. Sure you'd lose out on certain coaches but only for the bigger picture which is organizational philosophy.
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's no reason to do it. You can do whatever element of a 3-4 you want out of the Dolphins current defense.
     
  8. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Jordan wouldn't play DE in our current defense...
     
  9. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    It's basically a 5-2. The scheme fit hasn't changed.
     
  10. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I think we should be careful not to get caught up with nomenclature.Our defense is a hybrid defense .Its not a set piece We will line up in all sorts of defensive schemes according to the down and distance and yardline.In other words its a situational defense .The idea is to become unpredictable .
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, imo this is one of the reasons why Dion Jordan was drafted, he offers some amazing elements to the defense, coverage, pass rush, hard to find players who can do that right out of college

    Really, really, love that draft pick.

    Also think O Vernon has a huge role here, we look very much like Cinci did in maybe 2011.
     
  12. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Jordan at his current condition is not an every down defensive end. Not strong enough to push a tackle away or take on double teams. He needs to gain strength/weight. His shoulder has to be healthy first though.

    268 should be the ideal playing weight for him.
     
  13. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Exactly! Have Jordan and Wake line up on the same side form time to time! :)
     
  14. MiamiMan147

    MiamiMan147 Season Ticket Holder

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    I remember the position was called "Monster" when Jason Taylor played it.
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jordan probably isn't going to play defensive end that frequently, and there's no way they drafted Jordan with the idea he was going to gain nearly 40lbs.
     
  16. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Crunch is right - I made this point in a previous thread on the use of Jordan:

    We should be running a kind of hybrid 4-3 / 3-4 ... almost a 5-2 ... reminiscent of SF in some ways but our own thing. If DJ works out then Misi may be playing elsewhere in 2014. Could look something like this (player initials in position):

    CW -- RS -- PS -- JO ..|
    ......................... -- DJ (flex pos - move up, back, rush, drop)
    ......PW -- DE ........... |

    Then, go to a 3 point stance and Soliai comes out (Possibly have Vernon also come in for Starks on pure pass rush downs and vernon would work as a pass rush DT). We could have: Wake-Vernon-Odrick-Jordan in the dime package.

    I saw him in a few 3 point stances in videos I watched - on passing downs. And he looked good to me - so I don't think that will be an issue.

    Main developmental features for him: 1) Continue to get bigger and stronger as he's been doing all off season - he'll need that in the long season; 2) study and learn better footwork with the coaches; 3) develop better hand work and moves (learn from Wake); and 4) get game experience to get used to the power and speed in the NFL.

    One positive for us is the HOF game - these young guys will get more game reps against other pros - that could be a big bonus in our rookie development and a bonus for the whole team in areas of competition (RB, WR, CB, OL, etc.) ...

    Plus, we get to see camp sooner and have more games to watch as fans!
     
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  17. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nice mock up of the alignment. Coyle uses that sometimes as well as the tradition 4-3 sometimes during the games. It could depend on what formations he sees or if he wants to show different looks probably.

    I'm starting to think Dion Jordan may be used as a "Jack" possibly. The old Jason Tayor position under Nick Satan. The roaming LB who can blitz or pass cover from either edge or from the middle.

    We still have LB coach George Edwards who first coached in Miami with Satan. Taylor had 2 great years in 2005 and 2006. In 2006 he had 13.5 sacks, two picks for TDs and 9 forced fumbles. So if Coyle wants a "Jack" he has both the player (Jordan who I see a a JT clone) and the LB coach to help him.

    Then there is Kacy Rodgers who Coyle still has as his DL coach. He came from the old 3-4 Cowboys. So they have the front seven coaches who can successfully put back the old Satan style defence.

    I still think that Wake will continue to be a 3point down lineman. I don't think they want to mess with that and they will continue to use 3-4 elements but I look at Jordan and I'm now dreaming of this guy doing things JT used to do. It sounds intriguing and exciting at the same time for me and I'm not so sure they go that way but it's possible.
     
  18. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Jesus people need to watch us last year.

    Call us 4-3 but our solb was basically a 3-4 backer.

    Our defense is basically a 5-2 and a 3-3 nickel
     
  19. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    The old hybrid required the LDE to hold the line in a two gap alignment. This is a very different hybrid. No team in the NFL has Miami's reversed 4-3. It leaves an enormous gap between RG and RT that a very strong LB has to thump.
     
  20. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Jordan is gonna be a great help on Madden next year
     
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  21. 305

    305 Ryan F'n Tannehill Club Member

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    Go away.. 'batin.
    Too bad hes on the dolphins and you can expect a 78 rating at best :lol:
     
  22. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    it's going to be a multiple front defense... multiple... like what I give my women... headaches :shifty:
     
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  23. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    It's essentially an inverted Under defense IMO. I also think Cameron Wake is pretty generally underrated in terms of holding the point of attack on the strongside. He's a pretty solid run defender all things considered.
     
  24. Superself

    Superself Season Ticket Holder

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    Based on what evidence?
     
  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    We have a different set of personnel this year and IMO I think the coaches will continue to evolve their scheme to fit new talents. They're not bound by what they did or didn't do last season.
     
  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The Dolphins have the kind of defense where you can mix and match. They'll run a hybrid and move people around.
     
  27. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    We basically are a 3-4. Hence why I laugh when folks like PFF state Wake/Odrick are 4-3 DE's. Just because they put their hands on the ground doesn't make them 4-3 ends. It's also why talk of a 4-3 DE in the draft isn't going to happen. Odrick is basically a 3-4 end.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    What Jeff Ireland has done is essentially build a 4-3 and a 3-4 defense. All on one team.
     
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  29. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    Absolutely not!

    The Giants wrote the book on beating Brady & the Patriots. You want consistent pass pressure by rushing your front four, without needing to blitz.

    If we switch to a 3-4, then when we rush 4, either Wake OR Dion Jordan will be rushing the passer. One or the other. We want both consistently rushing the passer. So a 4-3, with Wake & Dion Jordan as the DEs is a much better way to create consistent pass pressure with our front four.
     
  30. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    He's ever improving.
     
  31. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Don't forget 4-2-5, 3-3-5 and 2-4-5. Versatility is going to be a major strength IMO.
     
  32. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    That's what it looks like on paper. 3 Pro Bowl linemen and a 1st round pick up front and a wide array of LB/DE options. I guess it's on Philbin and company now.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What has our defenses lacked for it seems like forever?...athleticism to finish in space..

    Dj..RJ..JT...Dreadlocks...Kracken..
     
  34. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Should be interesting with Vernon adding weight.

    Wake Starks Vernon
    Ellerbe wheller jordan

    Grimes Taylor Marshall
    Jones Clemons

    Jordan just allows us to do so much since he can cover well and hopefully he passrushes well too.

    I would love to be in the defensive coaches meetings
     

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