Say what you want but you dont throw a defensive holding penalty away from the play to determine the outcome of a game like that unless you were looking for a way to keep the drive going
personally i wouldnt call it defensive holding. that kinda stuff happens every play. seems whenever the ravens did something well to change the game, a flag was called.
I thought the holding call was marginal and the PI call was a little stinky. The one I have an issue with was a non call for grounding on Brady. He was throwing the screen and it was covered. Sure, he was out of the pocket but the ball hit the ground 3 yards short of the line of scrimmage. The Pats are the best team in football, without doubt....they are also the luckiest team in the history of sports.
i'ts somewhat comforting to know that no matter the record, the season, or even the forum - some things never change.
I don't think it was fixed, but when you have a team like the Pats they just seem to get those calls. After the 4th down timeout mishap I said to my friend "There is no way the Pats lose now." Stuff like that just seems to always work out that way. And I have to agree with unifiedtheory, the Pats are the luckiest team I have every seen in pro sports and it sucks. It's not just this year, but throughout their "dynasty" it seems like every break goes their way. And in that time it also has seemed like every break has gone the opposite way of the Dolphins. There is no way to explain that. It's just depressing. All we can do is hope karma will eventually hit and the roles will be reversed.
Normally, I am the last person in the world to ever knock the referees for anything. Most of the calls they make are pure judgment, and they're a lot closer to the action than we are. That said, this game was so clearly and obviously rigged on the part of the officials that it's nauseating. Roger Goodell has yet another challenge on his hands: cleaning house in the officiating department, starting with NFL Vice President of Officiating Mike Pereira. Don't wait until tomorrow morning to fire him: call him at home, have him put the call on speaker so his family can hear, and fire him right there. I'm talking a Donald Trump, or perhaps a Vince McMahon, style of firing. Dump him. Unfortunately, due to the fact that the season is still going on, the current referees will have to remain in their jobs. However, the batch of referees who handle the Patriots' games should be sent over to Oakland, but ensure that the plane detours through the Arctic Circle, or at least Iranian airspace. Immediately after the Super Bowl concludes--before the Lombardi Trophy and the MVP awards are handed out--every referee in the NFL should be fired. Even the sideline referees should be fired--anyone remember the infamous fifth down incident? No one should be safe. After that, increase referee salary to $95,000 a year, travel expenses prepaid, and hire full-time officials. Train them immediately, six days a week. Presuming they possess the intelligence of, say, colon bacteria, they should catch on pretty quick. The new batch of referees will screw up calls for at least the 2008 season. But, you know what? At least they won't collectively be in the tank for one team, and won't manipulate the rulings to favor that team. Why not? Because being paid $95,000 a year and getting to travel for free removes the financial incentive on the part of the referees to screw with the game. The last three minutes of Patriots/Ravens should be replayed. Get the teams together tomorrow night and replay the entire stretch beginning with the Patriots getting the ball at their 40 yard line. Tom Brady had the ballsack to criticize the officiating in his postgame interviews. Are you kidding me, Tom? Does Belichick have your perception of reality so warped that you can't tell that the referees handed you the game-winning touchdown? You actually think the refs helped the Ravens? Okay, here's your chance to prove you can win on an even pace with the Ravens. Replay the last possession. Do it again. Prove it. Oh, and change the rules regarding player contact. It's ridiculous that a corner or safety cannot be physical with a receiver.
Easily the most frustrating game ever, in terms of rooting for a late season unbeaten to fail. Normally you get breaks late in those games, like the Giants against Denver in '98 and San Diego a couple of years ago against the Colts. Both teams managed two score leads late via big plays. When the Ravens failed in that regard tonight, I more or less waited to see how the Pats would pull it out. Are we really going to have to depend on Eli Manning? Yikes. I know many people have faith in Pittsburgh but that figures to be the one game NE returns to its pre-clinch intensity, at home vs. a team it may have to meet in the playoffs.
I forgot to mention that I watched the game in a Las Vegas sportsbook and the one thing no one was saying was the game was fixed. It wasn't even close to the pointspread, which closed -18. Fixed, now that's the brainstorm here when a basketball team makes a half court shot at the buzzer to lose by 3 when the spread was 4.5. No joke. That's actually what you hear. Would Boller and the Ravens have been given the same benefit of a doubt on calls like the defensive holding? I'd thrill to bet no. The league benefits tremendously with a story like an unbeaten potential team for the ages, so no doubt the refs are influenced, even if subconsciously. That game reminded me of Miami/Ohio St '02 in the Fiesta Bowl, so many 4th down chances to end the game but always something bizarre standing in the way.
I thought it was a great game actually. It felt like a heavyweight championship fight. Those Ravens have a ton of character. They played hard and they got on the Patriots faces and let them know they're not afraid of them. But Tom Brady is too good to get shaken up. Didn't like the call either, but I think it's only going to get tougher for the Patriots. Pittsburgh is next.
I find very ironic that the team that USED to get away with playing the very same way would end up being the beneficiary of such calls. I'm sure the Colts and Rams watched the game with upset stomachs, knowing that the same tactics that Bellicheat taught and used to beat them in the biggest of games, would be reversed to ensure a Pats victory. Someone should loose their job over this!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a rule that states that only PLAYERS and the Head Coach can call Time Out. I do not understand how they applied Rex Ryan's time out. How does he even have that authority?
the burden of proof lies upon the accusers.. this wasn't a fixed game, PROVE it was without the unsupported diatribe...
I rooted for the Pats to lose as hard as anyone on this board. Those two screwups on 4th down cost the Ravens the game. NFL games arent fixed.
Agree with everything not quoted and especially this last part. It's like it's illegal to play defense. Can't touch the girls throwing the ball right on down the line. Sad.
I think you just figured it out for yourself, and I qoute "throughout their "dynasty" it seems like every break goes their way. And in that time it also has seemed like every break has gone the opposite way of the Dolphins" The Pats are a prepared team, and is always working toghter to win their FO has done an excellent job and you cant take that away from them. Brady is a hell of a player. Dont say its luck, there is no such thing (it'd called desire, preparation and sacrifice), you make your own destiny, the Pats have done a great job and they deserve the credit for it. To say that it's luck is cheap. What about when Marino could win a game on his own no matter what? Was that luck? No way the guy was a hell of a player and he wanted it more that the other guy, period.
they are lucky....they are good and well prepared too, but they are lucky. Brady stopped on 4th and short. LUCKILY, Ravens had called a timeout, so they get another shot. They didn't get another shot because they were well prepared or cause they were good. Next play, run. stuffed. False start on the Patriots. did they false start because of how good they are? how well prepared? they were lucky that their guy flinched on a critical play that was doomed to fail. Many other plays they were good rather than lucky....but they did have their share of luck.
Luck is for loosers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The other team made stupid mistakes, that dosent mean the Pats are lucky.
Good teams and good players get the calls, it has been that way for ever, in every sport. Use to hear the same things about MJ. Teams need to stop crying and go out and stop them, the Ravens had a chance, they blew it.
If the game were fixed they would have done it in a much smoother manner than that. I hate the Pats more than anything and I would love to find out the Refs fixed the game but... it just isn't the case.
a stupid mistake like the false start against the Pats on 4th and 1 where the runner was stuffed?? my bad.....I didn't realize that was a Ravens mistake. thanks for pointing that out.
btw - I in no way am insinuating that the game was fixed. I completly reject the idea....but that doesn't mean that the Patriots weren't lucky.
Cornerback Chris McAlister was more emphatic about the officiating, particularly the late holding call on rookie safety Jamaine Winborne. "It's hard to go out there and play the Patriots and the refs at the same time," McAlister complained. "They put the crown on top of them, they want them to win. They won." Full article: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7524872
I'm thinking Pittsburgh has a pretty good shot actually. If this was one bad game for the Patriots, you'd have a point. However this is 2 weeks in a row that NE has been on the ropes against subpar teams. You'd figure if it was just attitude they would have come out on fire against the Ravens. Now however, teams have figured out how to slow them down. They have no running game and Randy Moss can be limited if you're physical with them. Their defense wasn't anything special to begin with, and as the season wears on they're showing their age. Let's not forget the the Ravens and Eagles are losing teams. The Steelers have the league's best defense and are taylor made to wear down a defense like the Pat's.
I just want to echo some of the sentiments here and note that the Ravens got absolutely JOBBED last night. Let's look at some of the evidence: - 4th and 1: Assistant coach Rex Ryan is granted a timeout, although the rules state that only a head coach or player can call for a timeout. - 4th and 1: A late flag, possibly after the play was over, after the Patriots are stopped again on 4th down. - 4th and 5: New England is granted new life with a ridiculous defensive holding call. This penalty, more than anything else the rest of the night, should not have been called. Absolutely a terrible call. - 1st and Goal: Jabar Gaffney, juggling the ball as he goes out of bounds, is granted a Touchdown, even though instant replay clearly shows him without full possession of the football. In post-game news conferences, many of the Ravens have echoed these same sentiments - even going so far as to point out that the referees - the IMPARTIAL referees - were trash talking them out on the field of play. I don't often agree with Tony Kornheiser, I believe he's an obnoxious buffoon. I have to agree with him though - the ending of this game felt a lot like the 1972 Men's Basketball final. Disgusting.
the rwefs handed the win to the Patriots last night. Whtether it was fixed or the y just had it in for the Ravens or just wanted the Patriots to win or just plain blew the calls the bottom line is the Ravens deserved the win and it was taken away from them by the men in stripes
I needed that piece of information confirmed. Thanks. That's exactly what I stated in this thread. I KNEW for a fact that assistant and coordinators are not allowed to call time out. Only players and head coach can.
man the pats were getting calls all game long on Maroney's long catch and run in the 4th qr Bart Scott was clipped(blocked in the back) by Donte Stallworth there was no call, and on the hail marry to end the game Randel Gay interfered with mason again no call, but the pats get all the ticky tack fouls, I hate the pats wit a passion
About Rex Ryan calling a timeout... NFL referees are instructed to grant last-second timeout requests from the sideline. Referees have their backs to the sideline, and they have no idea who is calling the timeout; since an NFL head coach is supposed to have control of his staff, the timeout is granted.
I seriously just cant stand the Pats and after watching the end of that game i know why. Ravens played well but that last drive was brutal to watch if you dont like the Patsies.
The pats have been getting help from the officials all year. I am not saying it is intentional but it has happened. I am more inclined to just credit it to gross incompetence in NFL officiating lately. I have lost count of how many blatant offensive interference's randy moss has gotten away with and holds by the pats lineman as well. And bad calls against other teams that were just insane. And even worse is the "we are never wrong" this call can't be changed rules and arrogance that come with them on certain types of calls or time periods in the game. I don't think the ravens pats game was rigged outright but the bad officiating did give them the game. The pats are a good team with talent and good coaching. They are also extremely lucky and have greatly benefited from very questionable officiating since the beginning of the season. What sickens me the most is how many touchdowns, first downs and just great plays Welker and Evans 2 ex Dolphins keep getting for the enemy. I hope that the phins decision makers get better at evaluating and keeping talent. Though I don't blame either a bit for leaving. (off topic rant due to frustration) With all the press after that game hopefully the NFL will put extra supervison on the officials in the remaing games but when all is said and done that little yellow flag can have a huge impact on the outcome of a game by fault or not.
Part of the reason that it seems that the Pats are getting favored is that when handed an opportunity by a dodgy call they convert that opportunity. Lets not also forget that the Raven's 4th quarter playcalling went completely away from what they'd been calling with a fair degree of success in the first 3 quarters.
