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Theological Question: Is the Rapture a sound Doctrine?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by padre31, May 22, 2011.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, some gentlemen named Harold Camping, purveyor of some 100 plus Radio Stations has released a mathematical formula that supposedly predicted the Rapture would occur this weekend.

    He had done so before in 1992, to clear the air about this Rapture, is it a fact of any sound Doctrine or is it more or less just a modern, and somewhat crack pot teaching in some Churches and Congregations?
     
  2. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I Thessalonians 4: 13-18 says,

    In the late 19th century this passage was lifted up by some Christians to support what was then a relatively new idea of the "rapture".

    Christians have always believed that Jesus will return to earth and usher in the Kingdom of God. The book of the Revelation talks about such a time and other passages from both the Old and New Testaments speak about the "End of Times" It is variously described as "Judgement Day", the "Day of the Lord", and other ways. But the Thessalonians passage I quote above being pushed into the Revelation account giving us what is, in modern times, called the "Rapture" is relatively new and not universally supported.

    A more mainline doctrine would be live in permanant expectation that Jesus WILL return and always live, work, be in that expectantancy.

    The kind of reading of the Bible as a code book and "discovering" some hidden mathmatetical formula is roundly dissmissed and , in my opinion, actually harmful. It blocks a plain reading of the text for what it actually says.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Is the rapture a part of pre millennialism, post millennialism or Amillennialism?
     
  4. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    D: None of the above or maybe E: all of the above. All the forms of Millennialism arise from a reading of Revealation. But the "Rapture" is in Thessalonians. One has to shoehorn it into the Revealation formula (if there is such a thing) and one can put it in a variety of places. Hence it could be any or none of the above.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, disagree OhioP, the Rapture theory is part and parcel of two of those theological views (?)

    A millenialism believes the Apocalypse has already occured and the entire book merely deals with Rome and the Roman Empires and Emperors of the time it was written.
     
  6. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    The Millenium is a reading of Revealation which speaks af a time of trial for the world before/after Christians have been removed. How that removal happens, i.e. the rapture, is "described" in the Thessalonians text. That is what I was trying to say. Probably said it badly writing in haste.

    Lutherans went through a long millenialist controversy in the late 19th and early 20th century. Largely we don't talk about it at all anymore.

    For me, the coming again of Christ is a given. It will occur when God choses. We should all at all times live in that expectancy.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    OhioP, the millennium was the concept of a 1,000 reign of Christ, on Earth, not a time of trial Bro, that comes afterwards.

    Isn't that were the A/pre/post comes from?

    Anywho, the Rapture Theory itself in it's modern form is based on:

    Thanks goodness for spell check though, otherwise the whole "millennium" is not going to be spelled properly..:lol:
     
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  8. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    You are correct of course, my bad. Like I say, this is a bit out of my normal area of work.
     
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  9. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    Well...he's 0 for 2 now. ;)
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hehe, spent plenty of time with Evangelical Christians ..:lol:

    For me, did not really buy into the rapture as a theological paradigm, it seemed somehow..wimpy?

    The early Church knew all about martyrdom, being a fact of life, it could happen, so where would the ideal that "oh no, you are going to be haridzo'd" out of the Earth come from?

    To me, it lacked the sort of "if you do X, the Y will happen" reliance on even the verbal tradition of what Christ taught.
     
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  11. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    And nowhere to be seen.
     
  12. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Padre, fundamentalist Christians absolutely kill me with their misconceptions about rapture and "the end of the world". Remember, every true scripture has a three fold meaning: material, mental, and spiritual. Too often the "end of the world" is taken literally and its meaning lost.

    So let me give you a different angle to think about it from Hinduism where the same misconception is propogated by the worshipers of Shiva. Shiva is known as the "destroyer of worlds", taken literally, as many devotees often do, a vision of worldly death and destruction ensue. This is not the case. The meaning is that in deep meditation one destroys the world around oneself as all of the five senses are cut off and the consciousness is directed inward in a passage into a preliminary state of an absolute, dark void; thereby destroying the world to one's individual consciousness. Then, after having successfully entered this void, referred to as the negative state of peace, the devotee is encouraged to push past this calm into a deeper, ever new, blissful state of consciousness.
    I don't want to go into it any deeper,as I'm afraid I will water it down for you. However, if you are interested, I would recommend "The Second Coming of Christ" by Paramahansa Yogananda.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    There is certainly a tension within Christianity and perhaps within all religious systems which have sacred texts. On one side is the desire to read everything so literally that one loses the deeper nuances and symbolic values of a writing. On the other is the pull to read something so "spiritually" that one loses the plain meaning of a text. Finding the "middle road" in balance is always difficult.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, to me the plain meaning is sort of the issue OHp, it is a contest between truth or opinion, which animates the discussion somethings have no middle ground, and for a reason.

    For myself, "no one knows the day or the hour" is as true for Camping as for anyone else, it boils down to God's Will and no one elses so to speak.
     
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  15. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    No pad, I agree with you. I was making a general statement that sometimes a plain reading is to be understood, such as "No one knows the day..." or that Jesus died, rose, etc. While these have Spiritual meanings we should start from a plain reading. In this case my problem with Camping is that he reads scripture as a code book and not with a plain reading of the text. I think we are in agreement here?
     

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