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The REAL reason we go 5-11 at best.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I don't want to be negative Nancy on the much anticipated game day, but something has been bugging me and I've only mentioned it in passing.

    The reason this team will struggle is not just because we have a rookie QB, a sketchy right side of the OL, lost a talented CB, have a painfully average WR core, or even Jeff Ireland as a GM. To me the factor that outweighs all of that is we lost a DC in Mike Nolan that had a system in place to help us overachieve defensively. He is one of a handfull of special DC's out there and I believe his ability to get the most out of the limited talent he had, has been overlooked this offseason.

    He fielded an upper tier defensive unit in 2011 and now he is no longer here for us. I fully expect a significant drop off on that side of the ball. Meanwhile in Atlanta His expertise will get them to an NFC championship game this season in my opinion. His impact is that drastic.

    It's game day and I'm all for being optimistic, but to me THIS aspect never got the attention it deserves.

    Either way it's week 1, time to get pumped up Atlleast for a little while.
     
    brandon27 likes this.
  2. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    You hit the nail on the head when you said he helps defenses overachieve. The problem is overachieving doesn't last and eventually you have to actually put a legitimite defensive plan together. Look at the rankings of all the defenses he's ever coached and you'll see how their performance takes a significant nose dive after the first year. Look at our defense last year, in Nolan's second year, the first 7 games were a mess. Once Todd Bowles became a bigger part of the defensive gameplan they got back on track...sort of. The end of season rankings still illustrated the same book on Nolan as it always has been.

    So no, I don't think we lost anything special with Nolan.
     
  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    have to agree with Trowa on this one. Nolan does have a significant impact, but it doesn't last. He puts together a solid game plan built around the talent, but I don't see him adjusting very well. To Fin's point, I do see Atlanta have a much better defense this season, but they better win it now.
     
  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I just don't see this team sniffing a top 10 defense this season. Although I hope I'm wrong.
     
  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    He didn't regress his second year here, if so he still fielded a top 10 unit.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see why you think Nolan has that kind of impact. His defenses here performed well, but they didn't perform all that amazingly relative to the talent. He's a good guy to stabilize a bad unit, but other than that? There are plenty of guys who have done more with less.
     
  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Relative to the talent? Not sure I agree with that arguement. After Wake nobody is exceptional IMO.
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know how. No one else is one of the top couple players at their position, but there was a handful in the next tier, and the worst he's dealing with for the most part is average. He's got better than by most, by far and away.

    And then there's the part about him not actually coming up with what looked like a functional gameplan vs. the Patriots until Todd Bowles took over. The other three games were pretty much non-starters, and nearly every defensive coordinator we've had since Wannstedt has shown he can at least come up with something worthwhile, even with much greater gaps in talent.
     
  9. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    His defense ended the season ranked pretty high relative to his talent. I just think we regress without him.

    Time will tell.
     
  10. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Also stopping the Patriots is a bad example. That team is consistently stopped by NOONE.
     
  11. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    We were 15th in yards allowed (25th against the pass and 3rd against the run.) We were 6th in points but also 28th in takeaways. That points number is misleading though if you're trying to tie it to success by Mike Nolan. In the first 7 games last season we gave up 166 points and more passing yards than any team in NFL history on MNF. It wasn't until Todd Bowles became a much larger part of the defense over the last 9 games that we really got that number down to a respectable ranking by only giving up 147 points over the last 9 games.
     
    Nappy Roots likes this.
  12. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Time to drop that notion. You've gone to it twice now and it's not working. Wake, Dansby, Davis, Smith, Solial, Odrick, Starks and Langford aren't just bottom of the barrel barely serviceable players. He had good players, and he tailored the defense around their strengths (which is what he does) but was unable to provide a strong defensive scheme to build around (which is also what he does.) Please stop trying to make excuses for him when history has proven time and again this is the exact book on the guy.
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    My point is and remains this defense will likely regress in a big way. And I don't think losing Davis, Langford will be the reason.
     
  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what unit, or even singular starting player he had last year who was below average besides Reshad Jones.

    No, you can do it. If you're playing them twice a year you should at least look like you're doing something besides seeming like a less effective than average speed bump.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If we have a bad yr it will have nothing to do with Nolan leaving, it will have to do with talent, plain and simple.

    3 UDFA Wr's and 4th rd pick is not exactly a conventional Wr corps.

    A cowboys castoff and a 6th rd pick as our Te weapons is also not exactly frightening DefCord's

    Basically, we need to hit on a slew of longshot players to be successful this season.
     
    steveincolorado likes this.
  16. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. We were middle of the road in yards given up, you think we would be worse? I don't see it. Nolan did an awful job of switching things up and adjusting the first half of the season. Nolan is not this great coordinator he's made out to be. Above average probably.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Folks were running on the edges all preseason, we better sure tha up..

    Pats raped us, out coached him every time..they are the standard, why continue with someone who couldn't beat it.
     
  18. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We have a soft schedule , we really do . Emotion , coaching , momentum can all lead to some wins that may have gone the other direction . I don't see 5 wins as being the result but I still see a real lack of talent , playmakers and depth . To balance that though we finally have a QB that MAY be the right answer and that can influence a lot of things.

    Hoping for health and development from him and then to add the still much needed pieces for next year , boy I HATE having to be in next year mode before the season even starts , maybe a bit of protection , under expect , over deliver? we'll see ...I do know I would have a different outlook if we had not dismissed the WR position , traded Vonte without getting anything back for on the field this year , and actually had a free agency class that looked like it was going to contribute .... oh and had some safety help.

    Still.... #17 .... go to it son !
     
  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I never saw Mike Nolan as that great of a defensive coordinator. When I think of great DC's, I think of folks like Buddy Ryan, Marvin Lewis and Dick LeBeau. I don't think anyone would argue against the phenominal defenses these men fielded.

    I am concerned about our defense. With the focus being placed on offense during the offseason, I fear defensively our team has seriously regressed and will stand no chance against offensive power houses in the league.
     
  20. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I never said he was one of the best ever, I said he is one of the best in the league, and I still feel that way.

    His scheme made an average defense look better than it was, ill either be proven wrong or proven right. No In between.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see what elements you think were in Nolan's defense that was particularly helpful to make the defense look better.

    I don't think ANYONE who was a hold over from Paul Pasqualoni got dramatically better besides Cameron Wake, and I don't see how you'd attribute that to Nolan.
     
  22. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    What kind of fan starts a thread like this on gameday.
    Mike Nolan isn't here anymore. Get over it. :cry:
     
  23. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The same fan that won't be in the game thread *****ing play for play.
     
  24. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The players maybe didn't but the numbers did. Just because he isn't a Dolphins coach anymore doesn't mean he isn't an upper echelon DC.

    But like I said we will see in 16 games how much better/worse we are without Nolan.
     
  25. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    No passion huh? Sorry about your luck.
    I just think *****ing about Nolan at this point is water under the bridge.
    I suppose you might be one of those who is pissed about Vontae Davis still too. Just a guess.
     
  26. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    I agree Fin-O. Nolan did a great job last year. I'm not ready to write this defense off yet, but I agree we will probably be significantly weaker on that side of the ball. Today will be a great test.
     
  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see how what he did was supposedly evidenced by the stats.

    2008: 19.8 ppg
    2009: 24.4 ppg
    2010: 20.8 ppg
    2011: 19.6 ppg

    Nothing revolutionary happened. Meanwhile, Nolan inherited a fix to one of Pasqualoni's biggest issues- Our starting ILBs both needing to be subbed out in Nickel packages with no one who could do that. 2009 sucked, but there were mitigating circumstances. The rest is nearly identical.
     
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