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***The Official World Soccer Thread***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by first&goal, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Europe has been pummeling South America in the World Cup...
     
  2. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I could see the Argentina collapse coming in the first half of the Croatia match. They were slow, imprecise and just plain unimaginative in the first half. I like Croatia but they aren't "that good." Argentina made them look incredible. Strong WC for Europe as you say (except for ze Germans)... who have two games to figure it out or they could be bounced early as well. They look disjointed as well... and slow. Mueller has looked awful. Kroos and Khedira look slow and tired. If they don't start fast next game out, they are next. Brandt and Reus should be starting. Bench Mueller. Bench Khedira. Should probably bench Neuer as well, he looks off.

    I haven't really been thoroughly impressed with anyone yet. Sure the Spain Portugal match was brilliant. But both teams struggled to win their next matches. It's funny, it seems the more fans you have at the match, the less likely you are to win... see Peru and Argentina today. yikes.
     
  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Argentina's next practice session.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Argentina should probably fire that Andre Agassi fella before their next game... They can thank Nigeria for still having a chance to advance!!
     
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  5. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    today is the day that counts...germany under immense pressure....i´m still confident
     
  6. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    wooooooooooo....what a freaking win
     
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  7. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Kroos + Reus FK = Money.
     
  8. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Germany doing its best to Virginia my bracket, but pulling it out...

    Belgium-Tunisia was great game to watch but what was with all the technical glitches? Cameras switching from high def to standard def intermittently, lost Crowd noise behind the play-by-play, and some play-by-play a second ahead of the video!!!
     
  9. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    no idea , germany has its own cameras in the tournament, everything was fine
     
  10. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    yeah, that's Fox coverage for you. They are very inconsistent. The first England match my TV was having all kinds of problems going in and out of feeds. The on field angle wasn't timed up with the above field angle. It was a mess. Mind you, NBCSN is sometimes off in it's audio/video sync to the point where I've had to mute the sound so as not to tip what was going to happen.

    Alex, you are freaking lucky Sweden's *** puckered up when Germany went down to 10. They were still playing for a draw. Idiots. And you can thank that one Swede that fouled outside the box setting up the FK for Kroos... I mean there's a couple of minutes left and he's fouling like an idiot. What a wombat.
     
  11. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    Sweden was physically worn down, they didnt had the energy to do it
     
  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As I understand it, their video is off the international feed, and they have almost no control. However, I think the audio is all on them.

    And I don't even want to discuss the majority of their commentators and talking heads, it makes me want to throw up too much. Some of those guys make Jimmy Cefalo and Bob Griese sound brilliant...
     
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  13. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Yeah, I'll discuss them then :wink2:

    John Strong and Stuart Holden.. I give them 1 out of 5 stars. Strong's voice breaks up when something crazy happens (which always does, because it's soccer). Holden, for me is really bad. He was marginal as an American soccer player, and poor as a commentator.

    JP Dellacamera and Tony Meola.. I give them 4 out of 5 stars. I generally like JP, he's been in the game a long time. Although he does have his moments where he just completely miss identifies players. Meola is really solid. Much better as an analyst than as a goal keeper :wink2: He really has a good pulse for the game and the strategies.

    Derek Rae and Aly Wagner.. I give them 3 out of 5 stars. I like Rae, always have, you know what you are going to get and he notices everything that you do. He's the equivalent of Al Michaels in that respect. Aly... oh boy... this is going to sound sexist... but I don't want a woman commenting on men's soccer. I'm typically not this outspoken about it... except her voice grates on me. Why is she yelling all the time? She reminds me of that one woman that calls diving in the Olympics for NBC. I forget her name.

    Mark Followill and Warren Barton.. I give them 2 out of 5 stars. I like Followill, he's fairly decent. Barton... just because he's british doesn't mean I'm going to like him calling my soccer. He's mostly lazy. Just doesn't spend enough time on the intricacies of the matchup. Seems to say the same **** over and over. When he takes a stance on something, he'll repeat it until he's eventually proven right.

    Jorge Perez-Navarro and Mariano Trujillo. This might surprise... but I give them FIVE OUT OF FIVE STARS! I just love it when they call the games. It takes me back to the 86, 90, 94 World Cups coverages here in the US when all you could see was the Spanish speaking channels and Andres Cantor yelling GOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Now these two are speaking english but there's a certain flavor about them that I just enjoy. And they don't agree on things which is good to have them debate. Trujillo offers a refreshing perspective.

    Lastly, Glenn Davis and Cobi Jones... This is like 2 stars. never a fan of Cobi as a player, and not as an analyst. He's not terrible, but I could do a better job. Went to high school with him (and Eric Wynalda, another blowhard).

    The group at the studio are generally awful. Lalas, the king of the blowhards... Abdo is cute though. Dr Joe Machinik, I typically agree with him on 95% of his decisions. So he's one I don't mind listening to :wink2: Guus Hiddink, awful.
     
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  14. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    God, you haven't even mentioned the worst of the worst. The drop off from Bob Ley and Mike Tirico as studio moderators, to Fernando Fiore might be the steepest cliff in broadcasting history!

    I hate these guys, they constantly use the wrong terminology. I don't know if it is a translation error, or they really believe that a throwin should be called a handball, and a foul outside the penalty area should be called a penalty. Plus louder is not necessarily better.

    I like Aly better than you do, although she may get in some trouble today. There was a moment where there was a foul where a player was hit in the groin. She said "It didn't look like he was going for the ball, then a hesitation "the soccer ball" :)

    Strong and Holden are just meh for me.

    JP does indeed constantly miss see things, his eyes must be going. He annoys me because after 25 years as a soccer broadcaster, he still insists on explaining basic rules during his commentary. Anybody watching these games, where the US is not present, knows that the goalkeeper can't handle a back pass... Overall, I like Tony.

    I like Rae and Barton more than most, I'm sure it's partially the British accents, which I favor going back to Toby Charles.

    I think Lalas is just trolling people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  15. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Is Fernando even in Russia for the WC? Yeah, he's an annoyance.
    I heard Aly say that too, I laughed. Should have heard was Gus Hiddink said last night to Seedorf (I think it was). Something Seedorf said about favoring Brazil. And Hiddink said something to the effect of "you're saying that because you are colored" I think I knew what he meant (he meant biased because he played a lot with them), but it came off as something else... ooops!
     
  16. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ouch, I missed that. I have been avoiding the late night shows because of Fiore.

    I think he is there but I'm not sure. I know they only sent two announcer teams. The rest are using monitors from the US.
     
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  17. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    VAR's getting a lot of discussion over here following the incidents in last night's game between Iran and Portugal. Much of it negative, but I see that often as the presenters trying to drum up controversy...any many of them being dinosaurs who don't want the game to evolve,

    Personally, I think the VAR experiment in this World Cup has worked fairly well, it's still in it's infancy so there will be teething problems, but on the whole it's resulted in a greater percentage of correct decisions being made and hasn't resulted in the game being slowed up too much or often (one of the main criticisms from presenters/commentators). The referee in the Iran/Port game didn't help it's case though by being a pretty weak referee who looked out of his depth. He looked like a rabbit in headlights when the players surrounded him (and I so much hate that about soccer, surrounding the referee to try and influence him). There also still appears to be a lack of understanding from the presenters on how VAR is working in this tournament, where just a little research would tell them what they're complaining about is not the way the system works (ie. saying "why's the referee not asking for a review", when it's the VAR officials that say to the referee that a decision needs reviewed).

    I imagine there's less controversy in the US re VAR, with your sports already having video assistance well embedded as part of the game?
     
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  18. finattic79

    finattic79 Season Ticket Holder

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    I can't stand Jorge Perez-Navarro and Mariano Trujillo when they do live commentating. I can tolerate them on shows but not live. I literally muted them during the Mexico match and pulled up a Mexican commentating stream haha.

    I'm absolutely loving the VAR, as you said it has some kinks. But this is very new tech for the players and ref. What I eventually hope VAR will help cut down the diving. Like the supposed crackdown on divers in the EPL that never materialized, I hope they give after the fact yellows for diving on penalties that are awarded and then reversed due to a dive.
     
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  19. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if it is less controversial. I think that no matter where you are the conflicting penalty decisions in Portugal-Iran and Argentina-Nigeria, are inexplicable. Either they were both penalties, or neither one was a penalty. One of each is absurd...

    One problem I was having, is that the Fox commentators have really failed to explain how VR works. They have been constantly stating that the VR is supposed to alert the CR of a possible clearly incorrect decision, which he then goes over and reviews himself, to determine if he was wrong. However, on a referee forum they pointed out, that for "factual determinations" the VR actually makes the call himself. As far as I can tell this has never been explained by Fox. This is more of the way that instant replay works in most US sports. Booth reviewer is the decider. Even in the NFL, I believe, the ref going under the hood is just to see it again while the reviewers at the NFL home office tell him what to do.
     
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  20. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    oh my, hadn't even realized that. what a disgrace.
     
  21. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    Germany out!
    :omg:

    I had money on them pre tournament too
    :headwall:
     
  22. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    :tongue2: You can't say Germany deserved to go thru after today's performance. Knew they were going to lose when I saw Ozul and Khedira in the starting lineup.
     
  23. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    WTF Germany
     
  24. finattic79

    finattic79 Season Ticket Holder

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    You're right about the Fox commentators getting it wrong, or giving confusing statements on how it works. IMHO Fox's coverage has been absolutely abysmal, one of the reasons I don't watch many of the Bundesliga matches on Fox cause they haven't even tried to improve.
     
  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Germany, Germany, Germany! It looked to me like their older players have all lost 2 steps,, and their in their prime players and young players just didn't step up. Not all that unlike the US problems this cycle where they basically had no in their prime players, and Arena did not let any of the young guys play except for Pulisic.

    The only worse performance than Germany was Fox. How many times does John Strong have to tell me that Germany never failed to advance from a group before? And when ESPN had the Cup they would cut into simultaneous games briefly to show goals from the other game. Is this beyond Fox's technological capability?
     
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  26. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I"m going to revamp my elimination predictions... although I did predict 4 out of the 8 round of 16 games correctly in my previous post. Had a feeling Germany would struggle but I did still have them making it to the quarters.

    R016:
    Portugal over Uruguay. 1-0 Even though Uruguay is the more complete team, Portugal just has too much Ronaldo :wink2: Plus I have to stay with my prediction from before on this one.
    France over Argentina. 3-1 Going to be an epic game hopefully.
    Brazil over Mexico. 2-0 Mexico just can't compete at this level.
    Belgium over Japan. 4-0 Pretty easy matchup for Belgium
    Spain over Russia. 2-1 Although Russia could pull this one out, I wouldn't be surprised. At this WC nothing is going to surprise me anymore.
    Croatia over Denmark. 3-0 Just too strong.
    Switzerland over Sweden. 1-0 You could flip a coin on this one. I reckon it'll be either 1-0 or PK's to decide a scoreless draw.
    England over Colombia. 2-1 If James can't go, that really limits them. The way England has been playing (save for today's non competitve matchup) they should be able to dominate on the dead ball situations once again. Colombia's CB Mina is a threat though (two goals already). Not going to take Colombia lightly.

    1/4s:
    France over Portugal. 3-2 This could be memorable
    Brazil over Belgium. 2-2, winning on PK's. What a matchup. This half of the 16 teams is really competitive and makes for great matchups on paper.
    Croatia over Spain. 2-1 Croatia's Midfield the difference over an aging Spanish side.
    England over Switzerland. 2-0 Should be an easy path to the semis for England. Of course, what do they say about expectations?

    Semis:
    Brazil over France. 3-2 These two meet in the semis. Should have been the finals.
    England over Croatia. 2-1 This is a favorable matchup for England. They should know the Croatians very well. Could be a great game

    Finals... Brazil over England. 3-1. Hey as much as I'd want to pick England, I have to be real here. They'd be over matched for the first time in the eliminations round. And I just don't see them scoring enough. Would love to be wrong. This is a little like Liverpools journey to the final of the Champions League. Although they did dominate Man City, the rest of the matchups on their way were favorable in that they could have drawn a tougher opponent. England has a similar path.
     
  28. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ridiculous to use " Fair Play" (least yellow and red cards) to determine advancement, and I have no horse in this race. The refereeing crews vary so much in their threshold for yellow and red cards, it is completely unfair unless every team in the group gets the same crews, which, of course, does not happen.

    Having the teams meet the next day to take penalties would be better.
     
  29. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I think it's a sign of the times, that teams are so close now in the World Cup that we finally get to use Fair Play to decide a tie. What is the next tiebreaker after Fair Play? Flip coin? I read online that a better way to decide it (instead of penalties) is shots on goal accumulated over the first three matches. That would at least reward attacking play and make it more of a level playing field (rather than the referee subjectivity).
     
  30. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    It was a great match against Columbia. Those penalty kicks are nerve wracking. England's goalie guessed right and got all ball! That play saved the day! England advances! My wife's Irish relatives will be happy! Yay!
     
  31. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Well I am frickin happy as a **** right now. What a breakthrough on penalties. Finally... I mean it's been 28 years of agony for me in these World Cups. Up until today, winning just once in six shootouts I believe (if you add in Euro's as well). They'd never won a PK shootout in the WC. Think they played a better match and deserved to win it in regulation. Colombia played dirty trying to draw the ref into bad calls and surrounding him. They should have had at least one player sent off for the head butt on Henderson. And then when COL tied it up, I mean I'm shell shocked. The team was shell shocked. You could see for the first 12 minutes of the added 30, just stunned. Then they finally get their bearings and almost win it in the 30 (Rose's try comes to mind).

    Then comes the pens... and we all know how it's supposed to go... and then Hendo misses his pen and I'm thinking that's it. If not for the crossbar it's probably over as COL misses their fourth kick. I think Trippier was it that tied it up 3-3. Then the fantastic save by Pickford. And Dier with just enough to beat a reaching Ospina who gets his hand on it. And then I just lost it... mind gone.. voice gone... Yeah it's just a round of 16 match... but to me (and all of England) it's more than that. Love this world cup right now.

    Of course Sweden on Saturday is going to be a struggle. England have only won once in the last eight meetings (including friendlies). I don't know if I can take pens again, but I have a feeling this team can handle it now. The monkey has been taken off the back.

    The other three quarters, I'm going with FRA over URU... should be a good matchup though, offense vs defense clearly
    BRA over BEL... what a matchup on paper. Hope it plays out that way. CRO has to beat RUS don't they?
     
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  32. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Oh and Belgium 3 Japan 2 is the match of the tourney for me. And if you guys haven't heard about Japan and their class fans/team after losing that heart breaker, you should check it out. Cleaning the locker room (it's spotless)... fans cleaning the stadium. Brilliant stuff.
     
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  33. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    England have that right side of the bracket for the taking...
     
  34. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    England, please beat Croatia. Thank you.
     
  35. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Well, Spain got screwed.
     
  36. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Are you English Paul, or you just root for them as an ancestral team like I do?
     
  37. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I am English... well.. I guess I'm an English American. :lol: I'm a US Citizen now... but born there.
     
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  38. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    Got to beat Sweden first, it will be another nail biter. And Croatia is going to have all kinds of problems with Russia.
     
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  39. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral Staff Member

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    I'm sad that not a lot of England supporters have gone to Russia yet... not compared to Mexico/Colombia. I think that's half what happened at the Euro vs Iceland with much lower expectations and the fact that the games are in Russia and there's a bit of an issue going on between the two countries at the moment! I'm hoping that will change for the Sweden match. After seeing all these England Fan Reaction videos I'd suspect we'd see a few more Brits over there now :lol: It's Coming Home! Historically English fans don't fear going anywhere. A few bad apples have spoiled their reputation in the past. Other countries way worse though, especially recently.
     
  40. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just don't like Croatia and they're the one team I don't want to see win. France and Brasil are the next two. I agree with you but I think we'll see an England Croatia semi. I also think we'll see a Belgium France semi on the other side.

    I had no idea you are actually English. Great tourney for you guys and you got the penalty monkey off your backs. Good job and good luck dude.
     
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