THE OFFICIAL MIAMI HEAT SUMMER of 2010 Thread.

Completely disagree, if anything the premise holds more water when the current Heat Roster is compared to the "then' Lakers roster, Gasol was a complimentary piece, the Heat need more of a horse to ride into the Finals.

If anything, adding Garnett to be a "horse" bolster my example, he had been to the playoffs on mulitple occasions and on some good teams, Rudy Gay wouldn't know a good team if they took turns smacking him..that is to say he has never played on a good team in the NBA, and Bosh hasn't really either.

These cats who put up numbers can shrink when it matters, to cross quote:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfYhYft8dwI"]YouTube- Mike Singletary Post Game after Seahawks[/ame]

"I want winners"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB5-yJM3vJc&feature=related"]YouTube- Mike Singletary Rant - Vernon Davis[/ame]

Singletary works in the NFL, but his philosophy is quite correct, even for the ego driven NBA, and in the NBA it takes time AND drive to learn how to win playoff games that matter, Gay and Bosh haven't seen time in the playoffs unless they bought tickets to watch the games live..

Look at what the pre Shaq Heat produced:

butler
Odom
Haslem
Wade

That core learned how to win, what is Gay and Bosh's excuse?

 

The rebuttal to your entire argument here in two words: Dwyane Wade.

Everything else is complementary. Just like you purport Gasol to be. Just like you purport Garnett to be. The core is already here. The puzzle is adding pieces around him. That's the reason for the interest in Amare or Bosh as the #2 guy, and Gay or Joe Johnson as the #3 guy.

The Heat can and will import good players from at least two other teams and contend.

 

Well gosh Des, then Beasley is a 25 pt a night scorer if all the Heat needed is DWade...

 

I'm not sure why you're trying to discredit points I've never asserted. Who's denying that Wade needs help?

The issue here is whether or not a team whose core consists of Wade + Amare/Bosh + Gay/Johnson can win consistently and perpetuate that winning culture for the foreseeable future. There's no reason it can't. The talent is there, the leadership is there. Worrying about a pre-existing "culture of winning" misses the point: cultures of winning occur when winning happens. Winning happens when you bring in better players.

Wade, Amare/Bosh, and Gay/Johnson will do a lot of winning.

 

And the Chris Bosh pursuit (tampering) has begun...

 

that would be.."you", the assertion that DWade only needs talented bodies around him is, of course, absurd, Real Cool whomever somehow did not manage to catch the Wade magik..

I'm not 100% that Amare will leave "Los Suns", WCF and an opt out does not a Fa make.

As for the culture of winning, Des, you and I shall never agree on that one, adding the best player from a crap team, in your view, means they will undergo a miraculous transformation into focused, drive, result oriented players whose only agenda is to win a O'Brien trophy...

So you say.

Cavs had the best record in the NBA two yrs running, it meant that Lebron would have rumors that his momma is banging his teammate, and speculation that the Cavs franchise drops 100 million dollars in value.

It's all about the playoff wins baby, everything else is jibber jabber.

 

So your assumption is that good players on bad teams have poor character? Really?

 

Please, "the glove" had won plenty of playoff series out West.

And were Posey, Antoine Walker and whomever 2 MAX FA's as you swore the Heat would land this year?

the 04 Heat team learned how to win, it was watered down via bringing in Shack, the last 3 yrs have been a sort of jerk off for some mythical payday Sect that is a longshot to come to fruition, after all it was "you' who said a player would never walk away from a MAX deal, so why, exactly would they suddenly wind up in Miami?

 

Good players on bad teams learn how to showcase themselves and not how to win playoff games.

Google Reggie Theus sometime.

 

Rebutted quite forcefully actually.

2 MAX FA's and a Jr Max?

Do they keep Beasely oh prescent swammi?

Bro, never doubt that I understand how people think, I've been face to face with over one million people in my lifetime, I have real good grasp of inference and deduction.

Amare isn't going anywhere, it he were, why hasn't he? The owner quashed the trade stuff, a WCF will lead to a MAX contract in Los Phoenix...

 

Kevin Garnett. Pau Gasol.

 

Far from it, for me this is like a joke with a punchline that began last yr with your assertion that it is fine to lose deliberately in order to improve.

A sort of "we had to destroy the village to save the village to prove how smart we are" mentatlity that amuses me greatly.

 

The real question is, how many other teams can pick of at least one MAX FA?

There are several this time around, Riley's strategy is not unique.

The only thing that is unique is Riley himself as a Head Coach...that is his edge this time around, assuming that some FA's will eschew their stay at home MAX contracts...

 

Less than you apparently think. Knicks, Nets, Bulls, and maybe the Wizards.

Miami is the only team that can offer two max contracts and what Section calls a junior max, about $13 million, IIRC. One max contract will go to Wade, leaving $30 million on the table for two more players: one $17m max for LeBron/Amare/Bosh and $13m for Gay/Johnson.

The big question isn't whether or not Miami can put together a contending team this summer. The question is which players will be on that contender. That's up to the players: two of the five listed above will have to share the spotlight with Wade, or even take a backseat to Wade. IMO, Amare and Gay would have no problem with that. Bosh might, depending on who you talk to. LeBron... who knows. I don't like him, but if he really wants to win, then he swallows his pride and comes to South Beach.

 

I hadn't heard or read that nj doesn't want players back but rather cap space. That's going to be tough to pull off since a lot of teams are angling for cap space. But if anyone can it may be a shrewd guy like thorn.

Actually in the nba its not an unreasonable assertion because of the nature of the league being so talent driven. There's only two ways to acquire that talent, you either draft, sign or trade for it. Given the nature of the cap in the nba trading is hard and complicated so you're really left with some tougher decisions then in baseball for example. Look how much booming out helped the spurs the year they got Duncan. Ask Utah after this draft how much it helps them to have the knicks pick this year when they only had one lottery picked player on their roster while many teams in the west had 3 or 4.

 

The Spurs didn't tank it deliberately, David Robinson was injured very early that season, a foot or ankle IIRC, they then won the Lottery and landed Duncan, but that was only a part of the story to how they became a great team, they also drafted well and landed Euro players with loads of talent.

And Utah signed Boozer and picked Williams and have been a consistently competitive team for over a decade landing the Knicks pick was just a function of solid GM work.

The Heat had their high lottery pick and took Beasely, I'd bet that Utah if they wind up with the #2 overall lands someone who is a bit more productive.

 

The spurs also benched a few guys at the end of that season to increase their lottery odds.

 

True, however they did not go into that season with the intention of losing to sign MAX FA's or to win the Draft Lottery.

Sect had been commenting on what a brilliant strategy that is for the Riley to use, for my part I tend to think it will alienate the current players like Wade as they are naturally competitive, they WANT to win (a part of the reason for Singletary vid, he explains it better than I could) and to squander 3 seasons will cause some resentment.

Then there is the odd equation of DWade not leaving because he would lose 30 million, but other FA's will walk away from their team's offer of that 30 million dollar stay home contract.

The Lottery is no sure thing either, Thabeet was sent down to the NBDL, and he was the #2 overall last yr, and Beas was the #2 overall and has been..err..."passive" at best..

 

I don't know about swallowing his pride, but I don't know that having LeBron paired with Wade would be the best combo for the Heat or for Wade/James. I think the Heat would be better off with Bosh/Amare and Gay/Johnson than they would be with James. The other players compliment Wade better then James does.

 

I think you have to take your shot at LeBron but I won't be heartbroken if we don't land him. There is alot of other crap that goes along with having him that I'm not sure is worth it to us, since we already have Wade.

Chigago and the Knicks will have to bend over and take "worldwide Wes" (whoever the hell that is) and the rest of his entourage because they have no choice. Neither team has a superstar. We already do. If LBJ goes to Chicage and we end up with Amare/Bosh and JJ I'll take my chances against them in the playoffs.

 

It depends on if the goal is to give Wade a supporting cast or just to cut a swath through the NBA. There's something to be said for the Wade/LeBron pairing as a brute force path to victory.

 

Maybe, but they're really almost too similar in how they play to be really effective together IMO.

I'm not saying they wouldn't dominate the regular season overall, but I think against some better teams they'd struggle (again not saying they wouldn't win, just that brute force doesn't always work).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating signing LeBron. I just have a tough time seeing who would stop that Wade-LeBron combo, especially with a third wheel like Gay or Johnson or even Salmons, and guys like Haslem and Raja Bell coming off the bench.

 

Well I guess I am discounting the idea of James + Gay/Johnson/Salmons and that may be part of my problem. I'm looking at it like Wade + Bron, or Wade + Amare/Bosh + 3rd wheel.


I just know Wade will need the ball a lot, and James will need the ball a lot. So I almost don't consider a 3rd "big" name, because I can't think of who would want to be such a limited 3rd wheel.

I do think Bosh and Amare would be a better running mate than James, but if the heat had Wade/James/Salmons (for example) that would indeed be formidable matchup on talent alone (you couldn't really double Wade and LeBron).

 

I have to wonder just how many true max players have actually left their team for less money and not a sign and trade? Its going to be rough for a team to get TWO players to leave bigger money on the table or sign/trade for TWO max players. Miami might be able to get one max player via sign and trade to go with Wade, its possible but I don't see these players leaving 10's of millions on the table to go to another team. We'll see.

 

Amare and Bosh would need the ball a lot too, and I'm not sure who wouldn't want to be the third wheel on a team with Wade and LeBron.

I hope we don't sign him, but if we do, it'll be fun watching the rest of the league suffer a mental breakdown.

 

Have to remember to thank the Commish for giving us back Juwan so that we had the most overpaid player in the league for the next 7 or 8 years. Juwan was a nice player, would have been really good as a compliment to Zo but as a Max GoTo player.....yeesh that deal was so bad for Washington, still not to sure why we got that "reprieve" from the Commish but wow, brings back bad memories.

 

I don't know why Cleveland would do a S&T for Luol Deng. Like you say it doesn't make since to help him with betrayal, but it makes even less sense to do it and take a bad contract in the process.

If they could do it for a pick(s) or developing player(s) it would make more sense (to me).