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Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by finyank13, Mar 9, 2015.
Too bad he let .205 hitting Nancy Drew beat him.
He's using his sinker/2 seamer more now instead of his 4 seamer that has been pretty straight all year. People forget he was a good pitcher before, he just had a bad year. Kind of reminds me of Beckett's first year with the Sox where he was trying to do way too much and got away with what made him a good pitcher in the first place.
Well I knew he was good before this season but this year he's just been flat out terrible, and yesterday he was throwing nasty stuff.. Good for him and for Verlander getting back to form though. Verlander has been hot too.
Anyways... Unlucky you have got to start questioning some of these moves Joe Maddon makes for your cubs.. this guy carries himself as a god that knows everything.. yet I see too much relying on a rookie to hit miracle homeruns to win games..
that 13-6 loss yesterday was all on him and he always defends his moves.. and today, when you need a guy like Schwarber against Iglesias (a guy that gets bombed by lefties), he gets scratched because of some minor rib injury. I don't get it, it's September, everyone is hurt, it's time to play your best guys and suck it up.
Domonic Brown of the Phillies is the Javale McGee of baseball. That inside the park homerun by the Mets is all kinds of comedy.
If Scott Boras gets punched in the face multiple times I won't be upset. I don't know on what grounds he thinks it's ok to dictate to a team an innings limit for his client when James Andrews said there was none? Maybe teams should take note that Strasburg (who started this trend) gets hurt more then anyone. If the mets shut down Harvey because of this prick I really hope they send Harvey to like Minnesota (maybe for Sano) or Tampa or some other god forsaken team that will never pay him.
I would shut him down for the regular season but still say he is pitching in the playoffs. I dont understand how doctors figured out the 180 is the number
Boras is just representing his player here. Be mad at Harvey, not Boras.
You have to hve some relationship with Boras cause you dont want to lose a guy like Harvey. You dont need Harvey to win the division, shut him down now to rest for the playoffs. Matz is returning, get Harvey treatment on his arm and tell him he will pitch in the playoffs.
Reading more on it and this is definitely Harvey saying he doesnt want to pitch over 180 postseason or not.
Agreed. Boras is looking out for the best interests of the guy he represents. Boras doesn't owe the Mets anything. Plus it's not like the Mets have to listen to an agent, ultimately it's a player/team decision.
If anything don't you have to blame the Mets for not figuring out a plan or having one in place to deal with Harvey?
Also something that bugs me is stop talking about innings limits, talk about the number of pitches thrown or stressful innings thrown. All innings aren't equal or the same.
Boras is the douchebags that put the idea in Harveys head. All year Harveys been saying "oh there's no innings limit" and he's been pissed when he has to come out of the game. If he's going along with his agent then I'll be pissed at him too.
Actually you may need Harvey to win the division since the mets and nats have 6 games left. Secondly, Syndergaard has an innings limit as well. Third, they've gotten no consistency from niese and colon. One game great one terrible. And last, just stop being a panzy.
One I agree with you on innings limits. They're not the same. They're also an inexact science. But the cards didn't limit Wainwright (in fact he pitched a full year with a busted ucl) but conversely the player who gets babied the most, Strasburg is hurt every time he breathes wrong.
The mets have been skipping starts, employing a 6 mam rotation (which Harvey said countless times he doesn't like because he wants the ball every 5th day) etc all I'm the name of keeping his innings down.
I'd file a grievance with mlb and apply for an extra year of service time if he tried to wimp out on any starts on the basis of no injury being found.
Every team sets limits on pitchers coming back froma major injury, its not unheard of. Especially for younger pitchers.
What are the Mets actual plans for Harvey? Let him pitch until the end of the year no matter what? Did they ever have a plan or limit on him?
They've been pulling him an inning here or an inning there from starts. They skipped him once or two already with plans to skip at least 1 start in September. They employed 6 man rotations a few times which Harvey also complained he did not like ecause he wanted the ball every 5th day.
I'm the first to be critical of the mets medical staff. They've screwed up 100x over the years. This is one time they were right.
And sorry, as long as it's not abuse, bordering on an absurd number like 300 innings im just not a believer in innings limits. None of this stuff is proven any more so then stuff the someone like Mike Marshall or Nolan Ryan puts out there where they want their pitchers to throw every day. Usually when you want to build a muscle, you work it. You don't build leg strength by skipping leg day at the gym. Same principles apply. Plenty of great pitchers never had innings caps and still had long careers. I get that it's a major injury, but seriously? In the middle of a pennant race, in ny, this is the distraction he's going to throw out there?
How are the Mets doctors right though? What exactly are they saying? That he'll be fine or shouldn't have any restrictions?
I get that Met fans are pissed. It's a crappy situation for them.
James Andrews who did the surgery said he suggested 180-195 but it wasn't a hard number and Alderson has been trying to land him between those numbers. Boras has also suggested that Harvey not pitch in the postseason which has never been suggested by Andrews or the mets or Harvey prior to today. This is strictly about Boras meal ticket and Harvey possibly going along with it. Alderson is supposed to meet with Harvey Monday about this.
Two fantastic starts for Derek Holland. Nice to see him back and dealing after almost two years of injury. His return could be huge down the stretch for the Rangers if he retains this form. They basically would be getting an all star front line pitcher for the stretch run.
B14, RF, this discussion is one of the problems with MLB.
Instead of going all out to win, and risk injury, it is all about protection of an "asset" ie Harvey
Agreed padre. Worst part is the decision is being made by a prick agent whose never thrown a ball in his life. Tom seaver, Jerry koosman, Nolan ryan, randy Johnson, pedro martinez, John smoltz are all shaking their head in disgust.
The market sanction is normally being untouchable, if a player is not competitive enough to step out on the field, no GM in their right mind would sign them..
Oh, that is the NFL/NHL/CFL/Premier League...this is MLB where being a ***** pays well
Innings limit is a joke.
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I don't blame Harvey for shutting it down if a world famous well respect doctor like Andrews is suggesting he not push himself 1 year after having major arm surgery. As fans we all want our players to be hardcore warriors risking anything to win but put yourself in Harvey's shoes what if he pushes himself and gets hurt. You think the Mets or any other MLB team is going to care enough to give him the money he's probably going to earn if he stays healthy by the time he becomes a FA?
People forget this is entertainment for us but for a player this is their life and what puts food on the table for them and their families.
Again its a crappy situation but ultimately yes teams have the responsibility to protect their assets.
Okay, then charge half price for tickets to games because the players are not going all in to win, why should anyone pay full price for over blown exhibition games?
What does ticket prices have to do with this? The guy is coming off of major arm surgery and his doctor says he should be restricted the following year (which 99% of the pitchers are). It's not like when he does pitch he isn't trying. I don't understand your arguement here.
1. Then don't ***** when the Mets go with a 6 man rotation to help limit the innings.
2. Don't pitch in the playoffs IF they get in. Either you have a limit set...or not.
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If he is that behind the innings limited as soon as he hits it he should shut down. Playoffs included. By leaving it open that he might be for pitching in the playoffs he is saying the innings limit matters but it doesnt.
He needs to make up his mind.
If he starts demanding to be shut down he will definitely get traded in the offseason.. besides no player under Scott Boras stays with their team anyways so you might as well.. things could be going wonderfully in the Mets but behind the scenes Boras will tell you how bad they treat you and how this other team will get you paid.
I don't disagree with you.
Harvey says he will pitch in playoffs if they make it. I don't think he wants to pitch after he reaches 180 in the regular season tho
And yet TJ surgeries are epidemic, why would anyone pay full price to see half effort?
If the counter is, he may re injure himself, that is a part of the game.
Who's giving half effort? Harvey isn't, he's simply stating he has an innings limit. It has nothing to do with effort.
Yes injuries are part of the game, any sport there's potential risk of injury. The whole point of easing him back slowly is to try and reduce the chance of reinjury, there's no guarantee it will work but overworking him could absolutely do more harm than good. Again, the most famous doctor for helping pro players and who did the surgery on Harvey is suggesting Harvey has restrictions this year.
Again I don't see what your point is.
"I'm going all out..in this number of innings"
Do tell, where is the integrity to the game in there?
To me, this is worse then the steroid stuff, those guys were risking their long term health to be the best players they could be..at that time. In this case it is the exact opposite, "I'm not risking anything to get that payday, sorry Charlie"
His doctor is telling him he should have restrictions a year after having major shoulder surgery. Should he not listen to a world famous and one of the best sports doctors in the world? I don't get it. It's not like he's sitting out to get a better contract or he's unhappy with the franchise. He's doing it because his doctor is suggesting this would be best for his long term health and career. And he's not the only one, 99% of the guys in his situation do the same thing.
Mets say they will limit Harvey in September.
Again there was no innings limit that was set at the start of the year. It was recommended to be 180-195 but it wasnt a hard number. Additionally, you dont make it a public issue/team distraction. He deserved every inning of the 4 inning verbal tongue lashing Wright gave him yesterday. Wright did the overwhelming majority of the talking on that discussion.
His argument is counter to yours. You said players rely on this for their livelihood. Well, why should fans spend their hard earned money to watch grown men act like babies when it comes time to do their job? And hes right. Why should I spend a dollar to go see Matt Harvey pitch when I can watch on TV for free. After all, he may only go 5 innings or 100 pitches right....
If the Mets didn't have a plan in place for Harvey at the beginning of the year then it's mind blowing as to why not.
I completely agree with you that it never should have been a public issue, Harvey was wrong in doing that no question.
As for your 2nd post, you can do whatever you want to do with your money. If you feel that strongly about not wanting to pay money to see Harvey pitch that's fine. Of course if you're watching the game on TV for free the Mets are still making money off of you but that's a whole separate issue.
And sure he might go 5 innings or 100 pitches, might not get out of the 1st inning, might not even pitch due to a rain out, injury, day off etc. That's a risk you run going to a sporting event. My point remains that if he is in the line up I doubt he's giving half effort because he's getting close to an innings limit, he's still trying to pitch the best he can to win the game.
Well I dont think the Mets thought they were gonna be any good this season, horrible batting lineup before all the trades, could barely score yet managed to squeeze out wins because of pitching. The original plan was probably an average season and shutting down Noah and Harvey... Now its World Series.
my marlins will probably shutdown Fernandez after one or two more starts. They have already sorta limited pitches per game for him. He will have green light next year
Again, this is about the 3rd time I've said this...they've had a plan for Harvey and theyve monitored him the whole way. He has exceeded 115 pitches 0 times and 110 1x. They've skipped a few starts to keep innings down. They've pulled him a few starts at 90 pitches or so when he easily could have gone 1 or 2 more. That's the point. If they did nothing and treated him like a disposable arm I could understand but that's the furthest thing from the truth.
Nasty Nate shut down for 2 weeks, elbow inflammation....I would shut him down for the year if it looks bad...
Oh and thank you Red Sox, keep it up!!!