****The Official 2015-16 NBA Thread****

"Boik14 wrote:

Let's have some fun for minute....Jerian Grant is wearing #13 for the Knicks. The last Knick to wear 13 as a rookie PG was.....?

Mark Jackson. He won Rookie of the Year. :)

Makes sense. And the last time the Heat drafted a wing from a final 4 team in the lottery...

Dwyane Wade. He became one of the best players in NBA history. :tongue2:

I want to see who can guard Mudiay tonight. Give Napier, Richardson, and Winslow a chance to match with him, see who can hang with a playmaker who has elite size and athleticism. Richardson and Napier struggled a little with Cotton's quickness and trigger, imo, and Mudiay looked really good the other night. Just a matchup to keep an eye on against a hi-level athlete at the PG position.

Josh Richardson averaging 21.8 points, 6.2 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2.8 steals and 2.2 blocks per 48 minutes. Six games worth of data.

Not sure if that's impressive or not to be honest. I think it's pretty good.

Looks like Bryce Cotton is averaging 29.5 points, 7.0 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 2.6 steals and 0.0 blocks...four games of data.

Here's a good comparison with a guy many liked. R.J. Hunter is averaging 22.7 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 1.7 steals and 0.9 blocks. That's a solid five games worth of data.

Marcus Thornton who most people wanted to sign, 9.1 points, 4.6 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 3.4 steals, 0.0 blocks...five games.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Richardson averaging 21.8 points, 6.2 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2.8 steals and 2.2 blocks per 48 minutes. Six games worth of data.

Not sure if that's impressive or not to be honest. I think it's pretty good.

gotta do it per 36.

he has been ok. His floor game has impressed more than his stats to be honest.

I think he makes the main roster and taxi's back and forth between Miami and Sioux Falls.

Of course my boy Willie Cauley-Stein averaging like 30.4 points, 7.0 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 2.3 steals and 3.5 blocks. But only two games. I'd say that's a better showing than Karl-Anthony Towns thus far. But WCS is going to be an All Star. I should just forget about him as he was never available anyway, but still he's just so fun to watch.

It's a credit to James Ennis he can average 20.1 points, 11.4 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.5 steals and 0.0 blocks per 48 minutes and all we've done is bag on the guy for having a bad summer league, lol.

Will be interesting to see how things end up. This Heat team is seriously deep and they might realistically only have 2-3 spots to give to these fringe players.

Talented starting 5 of Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh and Whiteside; with an easily 6 man deep bench of Chalmers, Winslow, Green, McRoberts, Amar'e and Birdman. That's 11 deep, without counting UD and Napier. That means, assuming you keep Napier, you have 2 spots left, 3 if you cut ties with Napier.

Who do you keep? Z. Dragic, Richardson, Ennis, Johnson, Walker?

"ckparrothead wrote:

Of course my boy Willie Cauley-Stein averaging like 30.4 points, 7.0 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 2.3 steals and 3.5 blocks. But only two games. I'd say that's a better showing than Karl-Anthony Towns thus far. But WCS is going to be an All Star. I should just forget about him as he was never available anyway, but still he's just so fun to watch.

It's a credit to James Ennis he can average 20.1 points, 11.4 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.5 steals and 0.0 blocks per 48 minutes and all we've done is bag on the guy for having a bad summer league, lol.

I saw an article awhile ago that looked at past summer league MVPs and how they fared the following seasons. The results were kind of a mixed bag. Amongst the best summer league players you had stars like Wall and Griffin and guys who never did anything. Now I didn't watch these guys play and there was little evaluation in the article. The author just looked at the trophy and the stats, but it was interesting nonetheless. It seemed like sometimes it was a fatal flaw in their game that was the difference. Like maybe a Napier might be a good enough athlete at that level, but not good enough to take the next step. Or maybe an Ennis has good skills but lacks the discipline or has some other impediment to ever improve his handle sufficiently. (I'm not claiming either of those statements are facts or even predictions. They're just potential flaws I've heard mentioned).

It seems like Napier's actually playing well so far. And like I said before I don't know if you can afford to sour Goran on you by cutting Zoran.

Tough call.

"Sumlit wrote:

Will be interesting to see how things end up. This Heat team is seriously deep and they might realistically only have 2-3 spots to give to these fringe players.

Talented starting 5 of Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh and Whiteside; with an easily 6 man deep bench of Chalmers, Winslow, Green, McRoberts, Amar'e and Birdman. That's 11 deep, without counting UD and Napier. That means, assuming you keep Napier, you have 2 spots left, 3 if you cut ties with Napier.

Who do you keep? Z. Dragic, Richardson, Ennis, Johnson, Walker?

I think the odds of keeping both Chalmers and Bird are extremely low. I think there is a better chance that both are traded than neither is traded. That means at least 1, and possibly 2 more open spots.

Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, and Whiteside are locks. As are Winslow, Green, UD, and Amare. McRoberts could be traded, but my money says they keep him because he could be a very valuable role player. That is 10 relative locks. I don't see them giving up on Napier just yet, and I think Richardson makes the team. That is 12 relatively safe bets, leaving 3 spots for Zoran, Ennis, Johnson, Chalmers, and Bird (I don't see a need for Walker at this point). I already said I think Rio and/or Bird get moved, and I think Zoran stays because of his brother. If both Rio and Bird get moved, then Ennis and Johnson stay. If they feel they need to keep Rio at backup PG, then I think they keep Ennis over Johnson.

Interesting that at this point the main thing we're wondering is who's going to be let go.

Otherwise we've got the roster set at Goran Dragic, Dwyane Wade, Luol Deng, Chris Bosh and Hassan Whiteside, with Justise Winslow, Amar'e Stoudamire, Gerald Green, Josh McRoberts, Mario Chalmers and Chris Anderson as the primary bench.

"Sumlit wrote:

Will be interesting to see how things end up. This Heat team is seriously deep and they might realistically only have 2-3 spots to give to these fringe players.

Talented starting 5 of Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh and Whiteside; with an easily 6 man deep bench of Chalmers, Winslow, Green, McRoberts, Amar'e and Birdman. That's 11 deep, without counting UD and Napier. That means, assuming you keep Napier, you have 2 spots left, 3 if you cut ties with Napier.

Who do you keep? Z. Dragic, Richardson, Ennis, Johnson, Walker?

I kind of expect that the salary cap issues will mean that Bird and/or Rio and maybe UD and Napier as well will be moved eventually even if it's at the trade deadline. But going into a playoff run with those healthy 9 would leave me pretty optimistic. There is the real question of how well they'll play together, since they never have, but I think given a season to work on it they should be fine. Dragic and Wade seemed comfortable together. And Dragic, Green and Amare have played well together in the recent past. I see Bosh, Deng, McRoberts and Winslow as guys with flexibility in their games who integrate petty easily. Whiteside is probably the toughest one to integrate into the offense. I like the fit and talent of that roster better than other in the East. Health is obviously the key, but it is for Cleveland as well (who was obviously the best in the East last season).

If Napier can show that his shot isn't broken, he should make the roster. In college with defenses honed in on him he filled it up on basically jump-shots alone. Give him this off-season (camp, preseason) to see if that stroke is still there, and if he figures out how to get it off. He'll never be a good defender (though he has quick hands on steals), but if he just brings some higher effort there it should be okay...I guess.

For tonight, I'll be interested to see if they keep putting Winslow in the PG/initiator role. I suspect that the staff sees this as a way to get him on the floor alongside the other wings, and because he has the potential to be a matchup problem for opposing PGs (while still quick enough to guard them). And also they may need a guy to do this if Rio gets moved.

"sports24/7 wrote:

I think the odds of keeping both Chalmers and Bird are extremely low. I think there is a better chance that both are traded than neither is traded. That means at least 1, and possibly 2 more open spots.

Dragic, Wade, Deng, Bosh, and Whiteside are locks. As are Winslow, Green, UD, and Amare. McRoberts could be traded, but my money says they keep him because he could be a very valuable role player. That is 10 relative locks. I don't see them giving up on Napier just yet, and I think Richardson makes the team. That is 12 relatively safe bets, leaving 3 spots for Zoran, Ennis, Johnson, Chalmers, and Bird (I don't see a need for Walker at this point). I already said I think Rio and/or Bird get moved, and I think Zoran stays because of his brother. If both Rio and Bird get moved, then Ennis and Johnson stay. If they feel they need to keep Rio at backup PG, then I think they keep Ennis over Johnson.

I don't see UD as a lock. I prefer to keep him b/c I love his ability to defend opposing Cs and that might be needed if Whiteside continues to struggle with quick fouls and assuming Bird is gone. But I could see UD's salary amount being needed to balance out some trade.

So I see those other 9 as relative locks. My guess is that Richardson, Zoran, Ennis and Johnson, in that order, as the guys who most likely fill those remaining slots.

"Limbo wrote:

If Napier can show that his shot isn't broken, he should make the roster. In college with defenses honed in on him he filled it up on basically jump-shots alone. Give him this off-season (camp, preseason) to see if that stroke is still there, and if he figures out how to get it off. He'll never be a good defender (though he has quick hands on steals), but if he just brings some higher effort there it should be okay...I guess.

For tonight, I'll be interested to see if they keep putting Winslow in the PG/initiator role. I suspect that the staff sees this as a way to get him on the floor alongside the other wings, and because he has the potential to be a matchup problem for opposing PGs (while still quick enough to guard them). And also they may need a guy to do this if Rio gets moved.

I've been wondering that as well. If he's strong enough in that role it lessens the need for RIO and Johnson.

"rafael wrote:

I don't see UD as a lock. I prefer to keep him b/c I love his ability to defend opposing Cs and that might be needed if Whiteside continues to struggle with quick fouls and assuming Bird is gone. But I could see UD's salary amount being needed to balance out some trade.

So I see those other 9 as relative locks. My guess is that Richardson, Zoran, Ennis and Johnson, in that order, as the guys who most likely fill those remaining slots.

I don't see Riley getting rid of him. He's the emotional leader of the team, and has probably given up a greater percentage of what he could have made than Wade in staying with the Heat. I don't think he'll be in the rotation, but I just can't see them moving him. I also don't know that anyone would really trade for him, either. He's more valuable to the Heat than anyone else.

Personally I don't think they trade Birdman or Mario until the trade deadline unless they can find cheap value in return, that also does not affect next year's cap. And even then, if the team is doing well and they are both playing well, I could see them bite the bullet and ride the team until the end.

That's why I count them for the roster. Fringe players are going to have to fight for the remaining 3 spots, 2 if they keep Napier.

I also feel Tyler Johnson and Napier are fighting for the same spot, and TJ's injury might have dealt a big blow to his chances.

If Richardson shows something in training camp, Mario is gone.. Micky will gladly take the savings.. Mario will be let go for a second round pick to anyone in the market that needs a backup point guard. Bird's job is much safer than Chalmers.

"Sumlit wrote:

Personally I don't think they trade Birdman or Mario until the trade deadline unless they can find cheap value in return, that also does not affect next year's cap. And even then, if the team is doing well and they are both playing well, I could see them bite the bullet and ride the team until the end.

That's why I count them for the roster. Fringe players are going to have to fight for the remaining 3 spots, 2 if they keep Napier.

I also feel Tyler Johnson and Napier are fighting for the same spot, and TJ's injury might have dealt a big blow to his chances.

For sure, the only way they move those guys is if they're not taking money back going into 2016, but I think there will be those types of deals available. And if that's the plan (which I believe to be the case), I don't think you really want to wait until the deadline for two reasons. Primarily I don't think you want to risk there not being a deal there that late. Right now teams have not rounded out their rosters and have some space to play with. It's much easier to find a taker with room and roster space available. Secondly, You don't really want to change your roster that drastically at the trade deadline preferably. If you keep Rio and Bird, those guys probably stay in the rotation while they're here. Once their moved, the rotation changes and you're forced to make it work with a new group with the playoffs right around the corner. No, I think the Heat are out there trying to get the best offer they can for one or both of them, but before the season starts will move them for what they can get (maybe a 2nd rounder or two).

The other thing to keep in mind in terms of the timing of potential trades, is that it behooves us to hold onto expiring contracts for now that can be valuable pieces not for cap relief, but if Riley needs to pounce on the next disgruntled star who unexpectedly becomes available.

"lmeister3 wrote:

Wait. Was it in Stoudamire's contract to make up with the fire extinguisher?

Probably had to have Michael Baiamonte apologize to him for the "Stoudemire has been extinguished" PA announcement following STATS foul out against us.

What a ****ing hilarious call.

"schmolioot wrote:

The other thing to keep in mind in terms of the timing of potential trades, is that it behooves us to hold onto expiring contracts for now that can be valuable pieces not for cap relief, but if Riley needs to pounce on the next disgruntled star who unexpectedly becomes available.

Again, though, your flexibility to move those contracts without taking much money back becomes more limited the longer you wait.

"sports24/7 wrote:

Again, though, your flexibility to move those contracts without taking much money back becomes more limited the longer you wait.

Depends what you're trading for.

I'm not talking about a straight dump. That you're going to have to do now.

But if a star who is going to be a free agent demands a trade and gives a list, like dragic did last year, you need to be ready

With Amar'e Stoudamire here I'm having trouble seeing how Birdman plays for Miami in 2015-16. He seems like a direct upgrade/replacement.

Rio on the other hand, his fortunes may be fading but I don't think he's out yet. They have some options with Tyler Johnson, Shabazz Napier, perhaps Josh Richardson. But none of those options stand out as being head and shoulders better than Rio.

if another god damn horse loses by another mother****ing nose, I am gonna lose it.

I might bet summer league to chase my losses from this weekend.

"schmolioot wrote:

Depends what you're trading for.

I'm not talking about a straight dump. That you're going to have to do now.

But if a star who is going to be a free agent demands a trade and gives a list, like dragic did last year, you need to be ready

I get that, but the odds of that happening are not great, and there is no guarantee that you'll be able to dump their salaries at the deadline without taking back similar money or deals going into next season. You can take that chance, but I would guess they would rather make sure they dump that money, and the best way to do that is move them now.